Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:You left out the most important thing here, which is whether your husband is on the same page as you or whether this is some kind of unilateral decision you are making.

FWIW if you were my spouse, I would not support this. I would expect you to suck it up. Why take a 6-figure hit to our income?

+1 you have college loans.

If you wanted to be able to quit once you had kids, you shouldn't have taken out loans. Sure, that's in hindsight, but you made the choice to take out loans.

FWIW, I am completely disillusioned with corporate America, but went back to work after the kids were born because I wanted to be able to save for retirement and college. I did take a total of 2 years off with two kids, but I also saved a lot before I did it.

I was fortunate to be able to get back into the workforce earning six figures due to my network and being a top performer, but it has still mommy tracked me, which I am ok with since I hate the corporate world.

I will be retiring in two years, at 57. Youngest will be off to college, with a fully funded 529 for in state.

If it's just about being disillusioned at work, you just have to suck it up. If it's because you are stressed out with childcare/housechores, hire help.

Or, she can raise their children and then go to work when the kids are in college. It is pretty depressing reading the posts here. Total focus on money, rather than happiness for the whole family.

Are you joking ? When a person leaves the workforce for 10+ years, it is not easy to get back to doing what you were doing before, for the same pay. She would have to start at the very bottom, almost like entry level.

Life is expensive. If that is depressing to you then get some meds.

I have a senior in HS and a college student. College is very expensive, even in state, some of which are raising costs this year. College costs far outpaces inflation.

OP also still has loans. So, unless OP expects her kid to pay their own way in college and get lots of loans like she did, she needs to continue working in some capacity.

Not to mention retirement, and how expensive that is.

Life is that expensive because you choose that road and those expenditures. There are plenty of large families who live on one income, or families like mine... I spent several years working solely to pay for my student loans and child care, and then quit my job after number two, because child care and the higher tax bracket ate way too much of my income. I consulted for about six more years, earning enough to pay for fun things like vacations and camps, but we always lived on one income, from the beginning. My husband was able to pursue very demanding work because I did everything at home, and he now is very highly compensated, just like the research shows.

https://qz.com/work/1607995/most-men-in-the-top-1-of-us-earners-have-a-spouse-who-stays-home

We saved a bit in advance for college, but have funded private schools on a rolling basis, etc. But our kids didn't NEED that expensive education and neither do yours.

If I went back now, I would not command as much in salary, that is true. But again, people live on all types of incomes. You are fooling yourself if you think that you actually NEED the bulk of what you are spending.

Anonymous wrote:I’m considering leaving the workforce and over time building up some kind of enterprise independently, but on my terms as an owner. ... I would plan on a post-nuptial agreement to include deposits into my retirement account, and DH and I agree on finances overall so I don’t see this as a huge risk.

1) You indicate no education nor experience in running a business. Most small businesses fail.

2) This isn't a "huge risk" because your husband will support you. It is a risk for him.

stay at home moms have very high rates of mental illness

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Anonymous wrote:You are probably being influenced by the growing pro-SAHM culture. I know it’s getting to me and for the first time I’m fantasizing about quitting.

I'm 54, and I fantasized about it because several moms around me had either quit or pulled way back when the kids were young.

But, eventually, I went back to work, first PT, then FT, because 1. I'm not really cut out to be a sahm, and 2. I want to retire early. A few of the moms who became a sahm had husbands who made a lot; the others have husbands who are planning to work until 65.

Neither DH nor I want to work till 65, so I had to go back to work to contribute to our retirement so that we could both retire well before 65.

That said, the stress in the family did go way down, but by a certain age, the kids really didn't need me that much, and DH and I both had relatively flexible jobs.

Yeah, I’m one of three women in our circle of friends who works full time and only two of us have our kids in daycare (the other can afford nanny). The culture is now shifting toward glamorizing staying home and attacking women who pursue their careers and it’s getting to me.

As someone who has SAH since 2008, I chuckle at this. Oh the irony. Because I have spent the past 17 years feeling judged or viewed as “lazy” or “freeloading.” Maybe not when I had actual babies, but certainly after that. I’m no tradwife, not even close, but there are benefits to having a non working parent that are routinely minimized/dismissed here.

Yes there are benefits - to the family. NOT to the woman who excises herself from the work force, lets her skill set and expertise expire, reduces her earning potential, reduces what she puts into social security, etc etc. I stayed home for about 6 years when my kids were little, I know very well the benefits that had for my family, my spouse, etc. But to have continued it forever would’ve been ruinous to me, the person, and future earning abilities, career prospects, and potential, while continuing to benefit the kids and husband. And way too many women put themselves in that position not realizing how vulnerable it makes them.

Of course the woman benefits or she wouldn’t do it. She benefits in many ways. And yes women realize they are vulnerable but that is part of doing it, they want to be taken care of and to be dependent on a man. This isn’t something happening to them, women are competent adults who make the active and informed choice to not work and to stay home because of the benefits for them.

“She benefits in many ways” - didn’t name one

She gets to be at home with the kids, once they are in school, she has 6 hours a day to do as she wants and to have time for herself, she doesn’t have to provide for herself or her kids, she gets an all inclusive trip through life - has no responsibility for mortgage, any household expenses for self or the kids, or debt, or buying necessities, or cars or vacations or anything else that costs money - she benefits from saving for retirement or college without contributing to these. If she didn’t think there would be major benefits to her, she wouldn’t do it.

Who is she and why you are simultaneously envying and judging her?

Follow the thread. You can click on the link above to see prior posts that the written post is responding to.

Anonymous wrote:I have three kids: 10, 8, and 2, and my DH and I both WFH full-time. I just passed the threshold into six figure territory and would only expect to make more as time goes on. We save a decent amount but have considerable debt - mostly student loans - and need to save significantly more for college. Retirement/investment portfolio is okay.

All that said, we could easily live on my DHs salary and I can of course see how things would be much easier/better for everyone if I didn’t work. I feel extremely disillusioned by the work world and particularly with how I’ve been treated - please don’t tell me how great your working experience has been, that’s just not been my experience - I am good at working and thought I wanted to be an executive, but I’m just kind of disgusted by the whole thing.

Anyway, I’m considering leaving the workforce and over time building up some kind of enterprise independently, but on my terms as an owner. Is this totally dumb? Anything I should consider outside of the obvious reduction in HHI? I would plan on a post-nuptial agreement to include deposits into my retirement account, and DH and I agree on finances overall so I don’t see this as a huge risk.

Let me try and recap this, and subsequent posts:

- Your HHI currently is about $320k per year.
- You have "considerable debt"
- You need to save "significantly more" for college
- Your current retirement savings is "okay" - whatever that means. To me, it translates to, "not enough"
- Despite all of this, you think you could "easily" live on $100k less each year. No mention of clearing the debt, saving for college, or future retirement savings.
- You would like to quit because you are "disillusioned with the work world." Translation, you don't like working. Join the freakin' club.
- You say you have been poorly treated in the workplace, and so your solution is to quit work altogether, not find a new job. Brilliant.
- You make vague reference to starting "some kind of enterprise" (meaning you don't have any idea what it would be) "over time" (meaning you don't have any firm timetable). This is code for "something to tell my husband to justify my decision, but we both know it won't ever happen."
- You are quitting primarily because you don't like work, but still want contributions into your retirement account.
- Your husband says he's OK with this, but you think he would (understandably) prefer that you continue to work.

You are out of your effin' mind. Despite a very healthy income, you haven't hit your savings goals yet - and your plan is to reduce your income by roughly 1/3, and assume that you will be able to meet those goals? If it will be so easy, why haven't you done it this far, with far more income?

It's clear that "better for everyone" means "better for you, because you hate your job."

Anonymous wrote:I have three kids: 10, 8, and 2, and my DH and I both WFH full-time. I just passed the threshold into six figure territory and would only expect to make more as time goes on. We save a decent amount but have considerable debt - mostly student loans - and need to save significantly more for college. Retirement/investment portfolio is okay.

All that said, we could easily live on my DHs salary and I can of course see how things would be much easier/better for everyone if I didn’t work. I feel extremely disillusioned by the work world and particularly with how I’ve been treated - please don’t tell me how great your working experience has been, that’s just not been my experience - I am good at working and thought I wanted to be an executive, but I’m just kind of disgusted by the whole thing.

Anyway, I’m considering leaving the workforce and over time building up some kind of enterprise independently, but on my terms as an owner. Is this totally dumb? Anything I should consider outside of the obvious reduction in HHI? I would plan on a post-nuptial agreement to include deposits into my retirement account, and DH and I agree on finances overall so I don’t see this as a huge risk.

This is a major life choice and you are asking for advice on an anonymous chat room?! Unbelievable! This something that you and your DH decide.

But since you asked, my advice is stay in job and use your paycheck to pay off student loans and other debts. Then. Work an additional year and put every cent into an account to be used exclusively for emergencies. Life throws curve balls so be prepared for them.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You are probably being influenced by the growing pro-SAHM culture. I know it’s getting to me and for the first time I’m fantasizing about quitting.

I'm 54, and I fantasized about it because several moms around me had either quit or pulled way back when the kids were young.

But, eventually, I went back to work, first PT, then FT, because 1. I'm not really cut out to be a sahm, and 2. I want to retire early. A few of the moms who became a sahm had husbands who made a lot; the others have husbands who are planning to work until 65.

Neither DH nor I want to work till 65, so I had to go back to work to contribute to our retirement so that we could both retire well before 65.

That said, the stress in the family did go way down, but by a certain age, the kids really didn't need me that much, and DH and I both had relatively flexible jobs.

Yeah, I’m one of three women in our circle of friends who works full time and only two of us have our kids in daycare (the other can afford nanny). The culture is now shifting toward glamorizing staying home and attacking women who pursue their careers and it’s getting to me.

As someone who has SAH since 2008, I chuckle at this. Oh the irony. Because I have spent the past 17 years feeling judged or viewed as “lazy” or “freeloading.” Maybe not when I had actual babies, but certainly after that. I’m no tradwife, not even close, but there are benefits to having a non working parent that are routinely minimized/dismissed here.

Yes there are benefits - to the family. NOT to the woman who excises herself from the work force, lets her skill set and expertise expire, reduces her earning potential, reduces what she puts into social security, etc etc. I stayed home for about 6 years when my kids were little, I know very well the benefits that had for my family, my spouse, etc. But to have continued it forever would’ve been ruinous to me, the person, and future earning abilities, career prospects, and potential, while continuing to benefit the kids and husband. And way too many women put themselves in that position not realizing how vulnerable it makes them.

I’m the PP who would quit if I were from a DCUM extended family that pays for a ton of stuff or if I had married money. Anyway, for people like me, while a lot of this is true, me staying home FT (and it is totally helpful to the whole family to have an adult available to run All The Things) would not actually continue to benefit my kids and my husband. It would be putting the whole family’s financial stability at risk, which benefits none of us, no matter how much easier it makes driving to soccer practice. I wouldn’t be benefitting my husband and kids at the expense of my future by staying home. I am helping keep all of us - a comfortable middle class family with zero family help - stable should something happen. Because i wouldn’t be able to waltz back into the workforce at 50. And believe me, I would quit today if I thought I could - my job is stressful and annoying and I would rather be on the couch reading at all times.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm amazed at how many people are encouraging her to quit while completely ignoring the fact that she has substantial debt and still needs to save for college.

She said they save a decent amount while making their current loan payments. As long as they can still do that, what is the big deal? She is probably fine with her own children having student loans, as she does.

DP. Why do they even still have those loans if they are making so much money?

Also a terrible idea to have your kids take student loans. Plenty of kids graduating right now with “practical” majors who can’t find jobs. We can pretty much assume there are no 100% safe majors. Whatever we think is “safe” now might not be in a few years. A lot of kids are better off not going to college at all if they only way through is debt.

My husband makes $800k a year and still has student loans. They are at 2%, as is our mortgage which we also still have. It would be financially stupid to pay off these loans in advance.

Anonymous wrote:Another issue is chores, parenting, house/finance management, driving etc., you'll have to do it all and people would still ask you, 'What do you do all day?'.

I don't advocate for OP to quit completely, but I would not ask this question to a sahm of young kids. I've done it. Chores are endless if you want a clean house. If your older kids are in activities, they need rides.

I can understand OP wanting to quit, but not if you have loans. Pay that off first.

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Anonymous wrote:Individuals are different. Marriages are different. Needs of family are different. Career demands are different. Financial conditions are different. Social support networks are different. Goals and values are different. Physical and mental health needs are different.

One size doesn't fit all. Do what works well for you and when a change is required, pivot. Don't listen to people who bash other people's choices, life isn't black and white where work is good and home is bad or vice versa. These are just options with different give and takes. No one is having it all unless very lucky and wealthy, others are picking whichever choice has more pros and less cons for their family.

For everyone else, pay off your debts before you have kids so you've more flexibility in life. Send your kids to community colleges or wherever aid or merit is highest so they can avoid debt and have more financial flexibility in life. You don't need to ruin their childhood with parental stress to earn for their college. They can be successful from any college and unsuccessful from most expensive colleges. Mental health is more important than success level.

Your HSer will think, "Why do I have to go to community college because my mom decided to stop working?". That may not be right, but it will suck for the college bound kid.

Most of the SAHMs I know are not having to make these kinds of concessions, but this board loves to bring it up.

But most is not all, and OP has debts herself. So, how are they going to save for college and retirement, and pay off the loans if she quits?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm amazed at how many people are encouraging her to quit while completely ignoring the fact that she has substantial debt and still needs to save for college.

She said they save a decent amount while making their current loan payments. As long as they can still do that, what is the big deal? She is probably fine with her own children having student loans, as she does.

DP. Why do they even still have those loans if they are making so much money?

Also a terrible idea to have your kids take student loans. Plenty of kids graduating right now with “practical” majors who can’t find jobs. We can pretty much assume there are no 100% safe majors. Whatever we think is “safe” now might not be in a few years. A lot of kids are better off not going to college at all if they only way through is debt.

+1 Op has the option to quit but rely on her DH to pay off the loans. Does she assume that her kids will have that same option? Why would you do that to your kids?

I realize that being a working mom is stressful. Millions of us do it, and if we could, many would pull back to reduce the stress. But, I don't want my kids to struggle and take out loans. I had to work my way through college. It was awful. I don't want my kids to have to do that. They have enough to go in state without having to work.

When you have kids, you have to expect to sacrifice something. My kids are HS/college aged. They don't remember being in daycare, but they do appreciate that they have a college fund. And both DH and I appreciate that we have millions in our retirement account such that we can retire early.

If OP quits, she is basically putting all financial responsibility on her DH, who will have to probably work till they are over 65 to pay for everything.

OP: make a plan, but don’t quit yet.
First see what it’s like to live on one income, and use yours to pay off that debt and save for the kids college.

If you think it’s hard working now, it’s possibly even harder when you’ll be dealing with teenagers and menopause. That’s why “teenternity” leave is a thing.

But seriously don’t quit unless you have debts all paid off, kids’ college saved for, and you have substantial home equity and savings.

Could you possibly find a remote job? Even at a lower pay, that might give you better work life balance that you are missing right now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm amazed at how many people are encouraging her to quit while completely ignoring the fact that she has substantial debt and still needs to save for college.

She said they save a decent amount while making their current loan payments. As long as they can still do that, what is the big deal? She is probably fine with her own children having student loans, as she does.

DP. Why do they even still have those loans if they are making so much money?

Also a terrible idea to have your kids take student loans. Plenty of kids graduating right now with “practical” majors who can’t find jobs. We can pretty much assume there are no 100% safe majors. Whatever we think is “safe” now might not be in a few years. A lot of kids are better off not going to college at all if they only way through is debt.

Anonymous wrote:I'm amazed at how many people are encouraging her to quit while completely ignoring the fact that she has substantial debt and still needs to save for college.

She said they save a decent amount while making their current loan payments. As long as they can still do that, what is the big deal? She is probably fine with her own children having student loans, as she does.

I'm amazed at how many people are encouraging her to quit while completely ignoring the fact that she has substantial debt and still needs to save for college.