Anonymous wrote:I've lived in a very blue area and now I live in a red-ish area. I've realized that we talk about these places as though they are two different sides. They aren't- they are competing economic models that threaten each other.

The red states have a model with lower wages but lower cost of living, and much less of an economic safety net. This works well for most people, most of the time, if their aim is to establish a life of work and productivity. For example, our landscaper started his business at age 12, kept his clients, and now runs a full-service landscaping and contracting business. He's a local guy and makes enough money to support his family on one income, in a nice house with a pool.

This was a stunning discovery for me, because where I'm from in Montgomery County, MD, people don't grow up to be successful landscapers, or housekeepers, or nannies. You cannot earn enough money to support yourself on these types of jobs because you're competing with an underclass of immigrant workers who do the work for much less. These immigrants provide the base-load of labor necessary for us to power the rest of the system. It's basically exploitation, but, since it allows us to be able to say, well we protect our people with a safety net during illness and unemployment, people feel good about it.

But this is unappealing to red staters because you're asking them to give up a system that is working for them. And one in which people all across the spectrum of talent and intellect can have a good life. And that red state system is unappealing to blue states, who want the cheap labor to keep the system of higher wages and safety nets working for citizens. No one wants their system disrupted, and that's why this issue of illegal immigration is so contentious. Red states need immigration rules enforced to protect their way of life while blue states need them ignored for the same reason.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hope anyone interfering with federal officers ends up arrested and charged with a crime.

+1

I support federal ICE workers.

Anonymous wrote:The chronically online have perpetuated a myth that law enforcement must produce a copy of an arrest warrant to any bystander who witnesses an arrest and that if law enforcement fails to do this, the arrest is illegal and the bystander is empowered to obstruct it. I have seen that myth repeated even on DCUM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The conservative in me thinks addressing this issue (deporting them) would lead to higher wages and better benefits in the ag sector, which attracts more domestic workers to work in ag. It also would increase investment in mechanization and automation. There will be a time of higher costs increased food prices but when things settle, they should stabilize.

However, on a broader level, I find this entire situation absurd. The United States has become far too reliant on migrant labor, having half of the agricultural workforce undocumented. We need to ask ourselves why this is the case. It ain’t because this is "work Americans won't do". It's entirely because, for over 40 years, corporations have been allowed to exploit cheap imported labor, keeping wages for these jobs disgustingly low sometimes even below the federal minimum wage.

There are plenty of Americans who would be willing to do this work, but not for $12 an hour under the sweltering sun of Texas. Offer $30 an hour plus benefits to harvest lettuce, and you would see plenty of people lining up for those jobs. The problem lies in the fact that neither Democrats nor Republicans have taken meaningful action for decades. BOTH sides have allowed "big ag" to exploit these workers, paying pennies per box harvested perpetuating this cycle of exploitation, and doing so in such a way that if it were to ever dare end, suddenly panic, omg, our foods gonna rot and we're all gonna die of starvation because we cant afford food! They have caught you in this line of thinking, so they will always get their cheap, exploitive labor.

In my opinion, the widespread abuse of migrant labor over the past four decades is a shameful stain on this country. But, just like iPhones and Nike shoes, most people turn a blind eye to the unethical labor practices behind the products they want, so long as the price is low. Just look at OPs post: concerns about "rotting crops" and "skyrocketing prices", and not a single care about the exploitation of these workers. This has been ignored for decades and now that there's a policy threatens to send them home, we just get all up in arms because we might have to pay more.

It’s almost like saying that an economy can’t survive without illegal & low or no cost labor to farm the land. You know who else used that argument????

The Confederacy during the Civil War. Let that sink in.

Native born Americans are not up to working in the fields and slaughterhouses, no matter how much you pay. And the more you pay the workers, the higher food prices are, so catch-22. Yes, in Adam Smith's world, the conservative view you express is accurate, but that isn't reality in the USA in 2025.

Okay, sure, but then you need to be very honest about what you and the anti-ICE protesters are actually protesting for. You need to open about how you are protesting for and on behalf of BigAg. Otherwise, you are just a liar and a hypocrite.

Let us be clear: You are protesting to keep poor, vulnerable immigrants working in 110 degree heat for twelve hour days. You are protesting for child labor in slaughterhouses. You are protesting for working conditions that would horrify Upton Sinclair.

This is what you and the other anti-ICE protestors want. And that’s why there isn’t a lot of support for the protesters: because this is repulsive.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The conservative in me thinks addressing this issue (deporting them) would lead to higher wages and better benefits in the ag sector, which attracts more domestic workers to work in ag. It also would increase investment in mechanization and automation. There will be a time of higher costs increased food prices but when things settle, they should stabilize.

However, on a broader level, I find this entire situation absurd. The United States has become far too reliant on migrant labor, having half of the agricultural workforce undocumented. We need to ask ourselves why this is the case. It ain’t because this is "work Americans won't do". It's entirely because, for over 40 years, corporations have been allowed to exploit cheap imported labor, keeping wages for these jobs disgustingly low sometimes even below the federal minimum wage.

There are plenty of Americans who would be willing to do this work, but not for $12 an hour under the sweltering sun of Texas. Offer $30 an hour plus benefits to harvest lettuce, and you would see plenty of people lining up for those jobs. The problem lies in the fact that neither Democrats nor Republicans have taken meaningful action for decades. BOTH sides have allowed "big ag" to exploit these workers, paying pennies per box harvested perpetuating this cycle of exploitation, and doing so in such a way that if it were to ever dare end, suddenly panic, omg, our foods gonna rot and we're all gonna die of starvation because we cant afford food! They have caught you in this line of thinking, so they will always get their cheap, exploitive labor.

In my opinion, the widespread abuse of migrant labor over the past four decades is a shameful stain on this country. But, just like iPhones and Nike shoes, most people turn a blind eye to the unethical labor practices behind the products they want, so long as the price is low. Just look at OPs post: concerns about "rotting crops" and "skyrocketing prices", and not a single care about the exploitation of these workers. This has been ignored for decades and now that there's a policy threatens to send them home, we just get all up in arms because we might have to pay more.

It’s almost like saying that an economy can’t survive without illegal & low or no cost labor to farm the land. You know who else used that argument????

The Confederacy during the Civil War. Let that sink in.

Let's not "both sides" this. The democrats have supported workers rights and unionization....remember Ceasar Chavez and how he was crucified by republicans?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hope anyone interfering with federal officers ends up arrested and charged with a crime.

What about the “officers” actually committing crimes? I hope they’re arrested and charged appropriately as well.

Sure, what crimes are those?
The same guys that are fearing for their safety every time they go out to do their job and helping improve the safety of the public and restore Law & Order while sick people attempt to photograph them to put their names/addresses/families on the internet and make them targets to attack for other lunatics?
Meanwhile if someone stole your cell phone it would be a life changing tragedy to you.

Anonymous wrote:I support federal workers. I am one, in fact.

No one has the right to assault, obstruct, or interfere with federal authorities carrying out their duties.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
The conservative in me thinks addressing this issue (deporting them) would lead to higher wages and better benefits in the ag sector, which attracts more domestic workers to work in ag. It also would increase investment in mechanization and automation. There will be a time of higher costs increased food prices but when things settle, they should stabilize.

However, on a broader level, I find this entire situation absurd. The United States has become far too reliant on migrant labor, having half of the agricultural workforce undocumented. We need to ask ourselves why this is the case. It ain’t because this is "work Americans won't do". It's entirely because, for over 40 years, corporations have been allowed to exploit cheap imported labor, keeping wages for these jobs disgustingly low sometimes even below the federal minimum wage.

There are plenty of Americans who would be willing to do this work, but not for $12 an hour under the sweltering sun of Texas. Offer $30 an hour plus benefits to harvest lettuce, and you would see plenty of people lining up for those jobs. The problem lies in the fact that neither Democrats nor Republicans have taken meaningful action for decades. BOTH sides have allowed "big ag" to exploit these workers, paying pennies per box harvested perpetuating this cycle of exploitation, and doing so in such a way that if it were to ever dare end, suddenly panic, omg, our foods gonna rot and we're all gonna die of starvation because we cant afford food! They have caught you in this line of thinking, so they will always get their cheap, exploitive labor.

In my opinion, the widespread abuse of migrant labor over the past four decades is a shameful stain on this country. But, just like iPhones and Nike shoes, most people turn a blind eye to the unethical labor practices behind the products they want, so long as the price is low. Just look at OPs post: concerns about "rotting crops" and "skyrocketing prices", and not a single care about the exploitation of these workers. This has been ignored for decades and now that there's a policy threatens to send them home, we just get all up in arms because we might have to pay more.

It’s almost like saying that an economy can’t survive without illegal & low or no cost labor to farm the land. You know who else used that argument????

The Confederacy during the Civil War. Let that sink in.

Native born Americans are not up to working in the fields and slaughterhouses, no matter how much you pay. And the more you pay the workers, the higher food prices are, so catch-22. Yes, in Adam Smith's world, the conservative view you express is accurate, but that isn't reality in the USA in 2025.

Anonymous wrote:
The conservative in me thinks addressing this issue (deporting them) would lead to higher wages and better benefits in the ag sector, which attracts more domestic workers to work in ag. It also would increase investment in mechanization and automation. There will be a time of higher costs increased food prices but when things settle, they should stabilize.

However, on a broader level, I find this entire situation absurd. The United States has become far too reliant on migrant labor, having half of the agricultural workforce undocumented. We need to ask ourselves why this is the case. It ain’t because this is "work Americans won't do". It's entirely because, for over 40 years, corporations have been allowed to exploit cheap imported labor, keeping wages for these jobs disgustingly low sometimes even below the federal minimum wage.

There are plenty of Americans who would be willing to do this work, but not for $12 an hour under the sweltering sun of Texas. Offer $30 an hour plus benefits to harvest lettuce, and you would see plenty of people lining up for those jobs. The problem lies in the fact that neither Democrats nor Republicans have taken meaningful action for decades. BOTH sides have allowed "big ag" to exploit these workers, paying pennies per box harvested perpetuating this cycle of exploitation, and doing so in such a way that if it were to ever dare end, suddenly panic, omg, our foods gonna rot and we're all gonna die of starvation because we cant afford food! They have caught you in this line of thinking, so they will always get their cheap, exploitive labor.

In my opinion, the widespread abuse of migrant labor over the past four decades is a shameful stain on this country. But, just like iPhones and Nike shoes, most people turn a blind eye to the unethical labor practices behind the products they want, so long as the price is low. Just look at OPs post: concerns about "rotting crops" and "skyrocketing prices", and not a single care about the exploitation of these workers. This has been ignored for decades and now that there's a policy threatens to send them home, we just get all up in arms because we might have to pay more.

It’s almost like saying that an economy can’t survive without illegal & low or no cost labor to farm the land. You know who else used that argument????

The Confederacy during the Civil War. Let that sink in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Ice should be spending its time and energy in the states that voted for Mass deportations. Red State voters want action in their own States close to their own homes. I don't think they're paying taxes to have their own states ignored.

Red stater here and I agree. I think that we should let NYC and LA deal with the situation they created and then clean house in places like Atlanta, Dallas, New Orleans, Nashville, etc.

Problem is that the migrants don’t stay in the blue states.

They will be deterred from entering if they know they will be arrested here. In CA, they can steal and assault people without consequence, AND will be given free room, board, healthcare and a phone. Why would they bother coming to a red state?

Go home ice. Go back to your red States. The blue states don't need you or want you. You have dozens and dozens of red states that want you so go respond to the voters and go red. This is not difficult to understand.

A rare moment of bipartisan agreement. I've seen no arrests or ICE activity whatsoever in the southeast. It sounds like in California, they need to arrest all the illegals and then also arrest the antigovernment domestic terrorists kidnapping federal workers.

California clearly did not vote for this, need this or want this. Hit up the Southeast. I agree

California is turning red in 2028. No doubt about it.

In the sense that the electoral bloodbath for the GOP that is coming will wash over the entire country, sure I guess.

Anonymous wrote:Ice should be spending its time and energy in the states that voted for Mass deportations. Red State voters want action in their own States close to their own homes. I don't think they're paying taxes to have their own states ignored.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hope anyone interfering with federal officers ends up arrested and charged with a crime.

+1

I support federal ICE workers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hope anyone interfering with federal officers ends up arrested and charged with a crime.

I hope the new Trump SS thugs get what they deserve. There is no rhyme or reason to their arrest. Anyone with brown skin or a Latin sounding name, irrespective of their legal status, is likely to be arrested by these federal bullies. Is

The "rhyme and reason" are warrants issued by judges, both for being here illegally and also having their cases already concluded, convicted criminals from other countries, and already deported people that came back across during the terrible Biden era. There's millions of those people to apprehend. We're a long way way before cleaning ladies are on the radar. If any cleaning ladies get swept up, it's because they are collateral damage in the midst of a large scaled pursuit. If they are illegal, then they are illegal.

If you were so worried about this, why did you DCUMers not ask for the border to be closed and prevent the widescale pressure on the system this obviously would cause? Do DCUM Liberals not run any businesses? If your bottom line gets stretched, do you not lay people off? Or just accept you'll be in the red because "It's the right thing to do" ? Thus why leftists cannot be put in charge of anything above a lemonade stand.

You could have all the paperwork and due process evidence tattooed to your heavily-medicated-and-therapy forehead, and it still wouldnt convince you that you're wrong. It's why you're where you are, crying and whining and attempting to cope with the realities American's voted for, and why most Americans do not want to identify with you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I've lived in a very blue area and now I live in a red-ish area. I've realized that we talk about these places as though they are two different sides. They aren't- they are competing economic models that threaten each other.

The red states have a model with lower wages but lower cost of living, and much less of an economic safety net. This works well for most people, most of the time, if their aim is to establish a life of work and productivity. For example, our landscaper started his business at age 12, kept his clients, and now runs a full-service landscaping and contracting business. He's a local guy and makes enough money to support his family on one income, in a nice house with a pool.

This was a stunning discovery for me, because where I'm from in Montgomery County, MD, people don't grow up to be successful landscapers, or housekeepers, or nannies. You cannot earn enough money to support yourself on these types of jobs because you're competing with an underclass of immigrant workers who do the work for much less. These immigrants provide the base-load of labor necessary for us to power the rest of the system. It's basically exploitation, but, since it allows us to be able to say, well we protect our people with a safety net during illness and unemployment, people feel good about it.

But this is unappealing to red staters because you're asking them to give up a system that is working for them. And one in which people all across the spectrum of talent and intellect can have a good life. And that red state system is unappealing to blue states, who want the cheap labor to keep the system of higher wages and safety nets working for citizens. No one wants their system disrupted, and that's why this issue of illegal immigration is so contentious. Red states need immigration rules enforced to protect their way of life while blue states need them ignored for the same reason.

Bingo, you are so right. I live in a red-ish state as well and my lawn service owner lives in my neighborhood which is mostly working class professionals. We don’t have Mexican illegals to undercut labor, but we get good quality timely work done. The one time I decided to cheap out using questionable labor, I got ripped off. No more. When I broach this with my blue state friends, they would never be able to come to terms with using White labor, they are too addicted to the cheapness. I full

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Hope anyone interfering with federal officers ends up arrested and charged with a crime.

What about the “officers” actually committing crimes? I hope they’re arrested and charged appropriately as well.