Anonymous wrote:No it wouldn't. We don't need affirmative action for domestic students. Our kids' experience is enhanced by having deserving international students and their perspectives in their class.

Finally, what Harvard and other selective institutions need to do is increase the overall number of seats to normalize admission rates a bit. There is so much demand (domestically and internationally). They should find a way to gradually increase seats each year (and make logistics plans to accommodate this).

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

Something has to give. In the 2023/24 academic year, the United States hosted a record high of 1,126,690 international students, accounting for approximately 7% of the total U.S. higher education enrollment. No wonder so many qualified domestic kids can’t get in.

The Internationals are full pay. These universities are approaching a cost of $100k/year. American households making $200k or less go free.

it should be 5%

Why?

There would be no sports.

Ever since the end of WWII, there has always been a partnership between the US government and academia. Not just in research, but in ensuring that the US remains the center of the academic world. We have always wanted the elite from other countries to come here for their education - it's good for soft power, it's good for business, it's good for networking, and it's good for research. There is no downside to future leaders in business, science, and politics coming to the US to study.

But since the end of the Cold War, things went to autopilot and there hasn't been much thinking about anything. Now we see mediocre Chinese and Indian students taking a lot of spots at selective universities.

And you have to ask why? Where is the value added here? It's not 1980 anymore. Who cares where the daughter of a Morgan Stanley employee in Shanghai goes to school, and why does this girl deserve a spot compared to the gazilions of other students applying to these schools.

In some ways, the Trump Administration is just a loud, vulgar, and obnoxious course correction. I do think top 20 universities need to be transparent with who they accept and why - given the enormous impact these students have on everything.

Top 100 is ridiculous though. School #99 is mostly interested in filling seats and paying the bills. The pull pay kid from Wuhan or Bangalore is nothing but a plus for the entire university community.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

Agree 100 percent. We are sending billions in taxpayer dollars to these schools. That our money. The least they can do is educate our kids instead of future jihadists.

+1 These schools get $$$ in grants and tax breaks - that's taxpayer money so no they can't just do whatever they want and keep it.

It's crazy that some people here think we should continue to ignore our national security and open our doors in ways that these nations that are enemies of our country (where many of these int'l students are from) would NEVER do. We've already been quietly invaded.

Being tax-exempt just like every other non-profit educational institution and receiving money for performing services for the government via negotiated contracts approved and funded by Congress does not make Harvard Trump’s punching bag.

No it wouldn't. We don't need affirmative action for domestic students. Our kids' experience is enhanced by having deserving international students and their perspectives in their class.

Finally, what Harvard and other selective institutions need to do is increase the overall number of seats to normalize admission rates a bit. There is so much demand (domestically and internationally). They should find a way to gradually increase seats each year (and make logistics plans to accommodate this).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

In what universe does a government have a right to do that? I mean they could cut off all foreign students but not just to “top” schools.
I won’t even get into how dumb this is - these students are the way we get skilled immigrants , which we need. Not to mention massive soft power and prestige. Which is way better as a defense investment than most of thr DoD.

In the universe of the glorious cultural revolution. Ironic.

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

Something has to give. In the 2023/24 academic year, the United States hosted a record high of 1,126,690 international students, accounting for approximately 7% of the total U.S. higher education enrollment. No wonder so many qualified domestic kids can’t get in.

Anonymous wrote:How about American kids get better education at Elementary and high school before throwing them into expensive country club universities they are academically unprepared for?

+1 For those saying “oh there used to be way fewer international students BITD” well this is what happens when you stagnate and others catch up with you. Then you ask for a dictator to give you DEI so you can still compete.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

Enough domestic full pay applicants without the university meaningfully lowering their admissions standards? Or are you just saying that if you let in anybody who can pay, you will find enough people who want to go?

I'm sure there's a lot of variation in how admissions are done, but the schools I'm familiar with have a separate application for international students. Domestic students are not truly competing with the international pool for the same spots.

There are 100,000 high schools in the U.S. which means that there are 500,000 kids who graduate in the top 5 of their class. Surely there are enough full pay kids in the U.S. who also meet academic standards.

+1. My high stats full pay kid will be attending a T70 while kids from other countries with lower stats are being paid to attend top US colleges. There are plenty of full pay families in the US with academically qualified kids. Of course, there are a number of reasons top colleges choose to pay for international students to attend - clearly that has value to the college - but academic qualifications are not the reason.

That’s simply untrue. Your kid is at a T70. He didn’t have the stats. Period. Nobody is taking his spot. My son (unhooked/top stars) was accepted to multiple Ivies/T10/20s

4.0, 1570, 13 APs are, of course, insufficient only in DCUM fantasy land.

Similar sibling is at a T10. It isn't the stats.

Even you tell me he's Asian boy, I wouldn't believe it, it's really an outlier, this stats should be in T20, at least T30 without good EC or awards.

White

There is a chance a waitlist could turn into an acceptance, but not holding our breath.

You should get off wait list easily, even if not, you can easily transfer to good school one year after. Good luck.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

+ a million

it is a blessing in disguise for the president to try to wield power he doesn't have in a vengeful way? Yeah. Sure.

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

+ a million

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

Enough domestic full pay applicants without the university meaningfully lowering their admissions standards? Or are you just saying that if you let in anybody who can pay, you will find enough people who want to go?

I'm sure there's a lot of variation in how admissions are done, but the schools I'm familiar with have a separate application for international students. Domestic students are not truly competing with the international pool for the same spots.

There are 100,000 high schools in the U.S. which means that there are 500,000 kids who graduate in the top 5 of their class. Surely there are enough full pay kids in the U.S. who also meet academic standards.

+1. My high stats full pay kid will be attending a T70 while kids from other countries with lower stats are being paid to attend top US colleges. There are plenty of full pay families in the US with academically qualified kids. Of course, there are a number of reasons top colleges choose to pay for international students to attend - clearly that has value to the college - but academic qualifications are not the reason.

That’s simply untrue. Your kid is at a T70. He didn’t have the stats. Period. Nobody is taking his spot. My son (unhooked/top stars) was accepted to multiple Ivies/T10/20s

4.0, 1570, 13 APs are, of course, insufficient only in DCUM fantasy land.

Similar sibling is at a T10. It isn't the stats.

Even you tell me he's Asian boy, I wouldn't believe it, it's really an outlier, this stats should be in T20, at least T30 without good EC or awards.

White

There is a chance a waitlist could turn into an acceptance, but not holding our breath.

Don't tell me your son wanted CS major, that's a different ball game, there was Asian boy in California two years back, with similar stats and tons of award, including semifinalist of Google coding competition, rejected by almost all T50 schools but UT Austin, he then was hired by Google earning 200k+/year.

Personally think it is great if more US students have the opportunity to go to Harvard. I had no idea how high the international population was. I think it is a bit crazy to be okay to have full pay international students but somehow full pay US kids is a bad thing.