Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We swim at Fairfax Foxes. The instruction is excellent and for us, it’s about 1/3 less the cost of ncap, and the lane size is pretty great. Most nights, it’s 5 or less kids. Sometimes 2-3. Coach is very flexible to make things work, and many of the asst coaches are in education and great with the kids. With only 300 kids, the head coach knows every kid by name. That matters.

We have a friend that moved from a local unnamed team to Fairfax Foxes and they have been SO happy. I don't know if they are producing champions, but their 9 year old was very happy and that matters a lot.

It’s a great team but not the best fit for a highly competitive swimmer. For those with Sectional cuts and above, you need a strong cohort to train with and access to the bigger meets.

The very first post of this thread:

I'm looking for a new club for my average B/BB swimmer and was shocked at NCAPs and Machines prices.

Exactly. I had a friend whose kid was a super star basketball player. Full ride offered from many big time schools. But the kid was so burnt out, they didn’t take any scholarship and just went “as a student”. Find the right fit-the rest will fall in line. If you’re one of the 0.01% that’s going to the Olympics, then we’ll talk.

DP - the OP also noted that it’s not like their kids will be getting the top of the line coaches, or something to that effect.

As the parent of three B/BB kids, all of whom swim with Machine, the above is false. All of my kids have, at times, been coached by the same guy who oversees their national training group for our site. It’s super cool, actually, to watch from the bleachers and see how he works with them.

Our kids usual coaches are also outstanding. Even while they doesn’t coach at the national level, they’ve gotten to know my kids and have been a very positive influence for them. Are we lucky we can afford Machine? Yes. But this idea that only fast kids benefit from excellent coaching is bizarre. Part of what we’re paying for with Machine is great coaching at all levels. I have no illusions that my kids will swim D1, go to trials, etc. But if they love swimming, benefit from strong, positive coaching relationships - that’s worth it.

YMMV with this one. We are with NCAP and the kids that aren’t elite aren’t ever coached by the Gold 1 coach. If my swimmer wasn’t a high level swimmer I would definitely try to find a lower priced alternative. I think Machine has more options in terms of training groups for varying levels of skill and/or commitment which to me gives it an advantage over NCAP for swimmers that aren’t elite.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We swim at Fairfax Foxes. The instruction is excellent and for us, it’s about 1/3 less the cost of ncap, and the lane size is pretty great. Most nights, it’s 5 or less kids. Sometimes 2-3. Coach is very flexible to make things work, and many of the asst coaches are in education and great with the kids. With only 300 kids, the head coach knows every kid by name. That matters.

We have a friend that moved from a local unnamed team to Fairfax Foxes and they have been SO happy. I don't know if they are producing champions, but their 9 year old was very happy and that matters a lot.

It’s a great team but not the best fit for a highly competitive swimmer. For those with Sectional cuts and above, you need a strong cohort to train with and access to the bigger meets.

The very first post of this thread:

I'm looking for a new club for my average B/BB swimmer and was shocked at NCAPs and Machines prices.

Exactly. I had a friend whose kid was a super star basketball player. Full ride offered from many big time schools. But the kid was so burnt out, they didn’t take any scholarship and just went “as a student”. Find the right fit-the rest will fall in line. If you’re one of the 0.01% that’s going to the Olympics, then we’ll talk.

DP - the OP also noted that it’s not like their kids will be getting the top of the line coaches, or something to that effect.

As the parent of three B/BB kids, all of whom swim with Machine, the above is false. All of my kids have, at times, been coached by the same guy who oversees their national training group for our site. It’s super cool, actually, to watch from the bleachers and see how he works with them.

Our kids usual coaches are also outstanding. Even while they doesn’t coach at the national level, they’ve gotten to know my kids and have been a very positive influence for them. Are we lucky we can afford Machine? Yes. But this idea that only fast kids benefit from excellent coaching is bizarre. Part of what we’re paying for with Machine is great coaching at all levels. I have no illusions that my kids will swim D1, go to trials, etc. But if they love swimming, benefit from strong, positive coaching relationships - that’s worth it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We swim at Fairfax Foxes. The instruction is excellent and for us, it’s about 1/3 less the cost of ncap, and the lane size is pretty great. Most nights, it’s 5 or less kids. Sometimes 2-3. Coach is very flexible to make things work, and many of the asst coaches are in education and great with the kids. With only 300 kids, the head coach knows every kid by name. That matters.

We have a friend that moved from a local unnamed team to Fairfax Foxes and they have been SO happy. I don't know if they are producing champions, but their 9 year old was very happy and that matters a lot.

It’s a great team but not the best fit for a highly competitive swimmer. For those with Sectional cuts and above, you need a strong cohort to train with and access to the bigger meets.

The very first post of this thread:

I'm looking for a new club for my average B/BB swimmer and was shocked at NCAPs and Machines prices.

Exactly. I had a friend whose kid was a super star basketball player. Full ride offered from many big time schools. But the kid was so burnt out, they didn’t take any scholarship and just went “as a student”. Find the right fit-the rest will fall in line. If you’re one of the 0.01% that’s going to the Olympics, then we’ll talk.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We swim at Fairfax Foxes. The instruction is excellent and for us, it’s about 1/3 less the cost of ncap, and the lane size is pretty great. Most nights, it’s 5 or less kids. Sometimes 2-3. Coach is very flexible to make things work, and many of the asst coaches are in education and great with the kids. With only 300 kids, the head coach knows every kid by name. That matters.

We have a friend that moved from a local unnamed team to Fairfax Foxes and they have been SO happy. I don't know if they are producing champions, but their 9 year old was very happy and that matters a lot.

It’s a great team but not the best fit for a highly competitive swimmer. For those with Sectional cuts and above, you need a strong cohort to train with and access to the bigger meets.

The very first post of this thread:

I'm looking for a new club for my average B/BB swimmer and was shocked at NCAPs and Machines prices.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After reading most of this thread I was wondering how many weeks of practice you get at NCAP and other clubs for these prices. I don't see actual calendars on these websites. Like when it actually starts and how many weeks are off for winter break etc ...

Also how much are the US swimming fees? Does NCAP include them in the registration dues?

It depends, but generally you’re looking at September through July, with only August off. Practices continue through holidays and winter break, often with a modified or slightly reduced schedule. For 9-10s, I think most clubs are 3-4 practices a week and for 11-12s it’s 4-5 per week. It varies by club though.

At NCAP-Burke we have three weeks off in August, a week off in December, and a week off in Spring.

We have 2, maybe 3 weeks off in August and swim the rest of the year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We swim at Fairfax Foxes. The instruction is excellent and for us, it’s about 1/3 less the cost of ncap, and the lane size is pretty great. Most nights, it’s 5 or less kids. Sometimes 2-3. Coach is very flexible to make things work, and many of the asst coaches are in education and great with the kids. With only 300 kids, the head coach knows every kid by name. That matters.

We have a friend that moved from a local unnamed team to Fairfax Foxes and they have been SO happy. I don't know if they are producing champions, but their 9 year old was very happy and that matters a lot.

It’s a great team but not the best fit for a highly competitive swimmer. For those with Sectional cuts and above, you need a strong cohort to train with and access to the bigger meets.

Anonymous wrote:After reading most of this thread I was wondering how many weeks of practice you get at NCAP and other clubs for these prices. I don't see actual calendars on these websites. Like when it actually starts and how many weeks are off for winter break etc ...

Also how much are the US swimming fees? Does NCAP include them in the registration dues?

It depends, but generally you’re looking at September through July, with only August off. Practices continue through holidays and winter break, often with a modified or slightly reduced schedule. For 9-10s, I think most clubs are 3-4 practices a week and for 11-12s it’s 4-5 per week. It varies by club though.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After reading most of this thread I was wondering how many weeks of practice you get at NCAP and other clubs for these prices. I don't see actual calendars on these websites. Like when it actually starts and how many weeks are off for winter break etc ...

Also how much are the US swimming fees? Does NCAP include them in the registration dues?

The USA swimming fees are included for NCAP. The fees that really start to add up that are not included are the meet entry fees. A swimmer doing a full lineup of events is often looking at $80-$100 in entry fees at a meet. My kid swam in 13-14 meets this year so that was an extra $1k in meet entry fees (and that’s not including travel for the meets that require a hotel, etc.).

Woah. I didn't realize the meet fees were that much. Is that per stroke or for the whole meet? Do you get anything or is it just to swim?

Yup. Using 14 and under champs as the example, every swimmer starts with a $10 surcharge just for being entered in the meet. Then each individual event your swimmer is entered in costs $12.50 (there are relay entry fees as well but the club pays for those, the relay swimmers aren’t responsible for those fees). So if your swimmer was in the maximum 6 individual events your meet fees were $85. That’s the baseline cost of competing in the meet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After reading most of this thread I was wondering how many weeks of practice you get at NCAP and other clubs for these prices. I don't see actual calendars on these websites. Like when it actually starts and how many weeks are off for winter break etc ...

Also how much are the US swimming fees? Does NCAP include them in the registration dues?

The USA swimming fees are included for NCAP. The fees that really start to add up that are not included are the meet entry fees. A swimmer doing a full lineup of events is often looking at $80-$100 in entry fees at a meet. My kid swam in 13-14 meets this year so that was an extra $1k in meet entry fees (and that’s not including travel for the meets that require a hotel, etc.).

Woah. I didn't realize the meet fees were that much. Is that per stroke or for the whole meet? Do you get anything or is it just to swim?

The more elite a swimmer gets, the more expensive the meet fees (plus travel, suits, etc). You can add up the meet fees for the meets your child’s practice group attended the previous year to get a sense of the cost. Click on the meet announcement in the PVS Results page for 2024-25 (you’ll have to find the MA elsewhere if it was sanctioned by another LSC like Virginia Swimming or if it is a private meet or combined meet like NCSA, ISCA, MAAGS, etc):
https://www.pvswim.org/results.html

So, for example, if your swimmer was at the Fish June LC Meet and swam six events, it would be $20 entry fee plus $15/event = $110 for the meet. This adds up.
https://www.pvswim.org/2425meet/25-104-ma.pdf

NCAP Invite is $18 entry surcharge plus $10/event (not counting relays), so it would be about $78 for the meet.
https://www.pvswim.org/2425meet/25-40-ma.pdf

Turkey Claus is $10/event with a 9 event max ($90) plus entry fee ($18) plus spectator fee (up to $25/person if not working the meet) plus relay charges (club will pass these on to participants)
https://www.pvswim.org/2425meet/25-32-ma.pdf

I calculated an extra $1000 for meet charges added onto monthly club fees when budgeting for swim (not including gas, travel, hotels, suits, goggles, etc). If my child goes to NCSAs, it’s a whole lot more:
https://www.gomotionapp.com/recndncsa/UserFiles/Image/QuickUpload/2025-ncsa-spring-age-group-meet-announcement-sanctioned_092228.pdf

It’s approximately $80-$100 per meet depending on a few factors. The meet fees are just to swim. You often don’t get anything included except bag tags or medal/ ribbons if your kid places.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:After reading most of this thread I was wondering how many weeks of practice you get at NCAP and other clubs for these prices. I don't see actual calendars on these websites. Like when it actually starts and how many weeks are off for winter break etc ...

Also how much are the US swimming fees? Does NCAP include them in the registration dues?

The USA swimming fees are included for NCAP. The fees that really start to add up that are not included are the meet entry fees. A swimmer doing a full lineup of events is often looking at $80-$100 in entry fees at a meet. My kid swam in 13-14 meets this year so that was an extra $1k in meet entry fees (and that’s not including travel for the meets that require a hotel, etc.).

Woah. I didn't realize the meet fees were that much. Is that per stroke or for the whole meet? Do you get anything or is it just to swim?

Anonymous wrote:We swim at Fairfax Foxes. The instruction is excellent and for us, it’s about 1/3 less the cost of ncap, and the lane size is pretty great. Most nights, it’s 5 or less kids. Sometimes 2-3. Coach is very flexible to make things work, and many of the asst coaches are in education and great with the kids. With only 300 kids, the head coach knows every kid by name. That matters.

We have a friend that moved from a local unnamed team to Fairfax Foxes and they have been SO happy. I don't know if they are producing champions, but their 9 year old was very happy and that matters a lot.

Anonymous wrote:After reading most of this thread I was wondering how many weeks of practice you get at NCAP and other clubs for these prices. I don't see actual calendars on these websites. Like when it actually starts and how many weeks are off for winter break etc ...

Also how much are the US swimming fees? Does NCAP include them in the registration dues?

The USA swimming fees are included for NCAP. The fees that really start to add up that are not included are the meet entry fees. A swimmer doing a full lineup of events is often looking at $80-$100 in entry fees at a meet. My kid swam in 13-14 meets this year so that was an extra $1k in meet entry fees (and that’s not including travel for the meets that require a hotel, etc.).

We swim at Fairfax Foxes. The instruction is excellent and for us, it’s about 1/3 less the cost of ncap, and the lane size is pretty great. Most nights, it’s 5 or less kids. Sometimes 2-3. Coach is very flexible to make things work, and many of the asst coaches are in education and great with the kids. With only 300 kids, the head coach knows every kid by name. That matters.