Anonymous wrote:I don't ever remember writing more than a sentence until 2nd grade and I went to a top private school. We were taught the letters, then the words then how to create a sentence. When I had to write a paragraph, it was the natural next step. Then, in middle school maybe, 5 paragraphs for an essay. All completely structured. My kids were supposed to write about whatever in 1st grade and what came home was a mishmash of words. Stayed that way too, until covid, when I realized that my daughter could not write at all.

As a writer, I was floored when she had no idea how to even structure a paragraph.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My favorite LC story is the year my kid jumped from level E to level M in reading in a month. Why? The story she was tested on for E was about baseball and she couldn’t guess what some of the words were, which was supposed to be easy… Only we’d just moved to the country and she’d literally never heard of baseball, so had zero framework to even sound out from. (Like “pitcher” and “base” and “diamond” were all at Level E because you could guess from the first letter and the picture if you’d ever heard these words… but actually pitcher is not on the same level as dog as LC claimed (cvc and common/easy to depict words were the same) and is very hard for a kid to figure out if she’s never heard the word and doesn’t even recognize the sport. Then suddenly a different teacher declared her at Level M because she could read a Level M book about a topic she was familiar with (so where the first letter and guess method worked). Absolute lunacy.

Do you get any sort of idea where your kid is reading when they are above grade level phonics? For example, if a Kindergartner is reading at the end of first grade, it isn’t reported or noted anywhere?

A PP. My school district evaluated the kids in terms of lexiles. That's a different assessment system. I think they will be using iReady for this in the future. It doesn't have anything to do with Calkins or phonics.

https://readingrev.com/blog/jgon5w7jjk5analqa9bcmjm9h4hxwv#:~:text=A%20text's%20Lexile%20level%20is,indicates%20a%20more%20challenging%20text.

The big emphasis on lexile assessment started in first grade in our district and lasted until about fourth grade.

You may not get much assessed in K if your child is NT. I believe at my school they just noted whether the kid was able to keep up with the class. Report cards covered the skills the kids could demonstrate at the expected level. And any mild skill deficits were explained.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What is wrong with writing workshops, if students can already read and know phonics?

Are old school readers and textbooks like HMH better for 3rd-5th literacy?

Read the friggin' thread. This has been answered and we're not going to type it again just for sweet little you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My favorite LC story is the year my kid jumped from level E to level M in reading in a month. Why? The story she was tested on for E was about baseball and she couldn’t guess what some of the words were, which was supposed to be easy… Only we’d just moved to the country and she’d literally never heard of baseball, so had zero framework to even sound out from. (Like “pitcher” and “base” and “diamond” were all at Level E because you could guess from the first letter and the picture if you’d ever heard these words… but actually pitcher is not on the same level as dog as LC claimed (cvc and common/easy to depict words were the same) and is very hard for a kid to figure out if she’s never heard the word and doesn’t even recognize the sport. Then suddenly a different teacher declared her at Level M because she could read a Level M book about a topic she was familiar with (so where the first letter and guess method worked). Absolute lunacy.

Do you get any sort of idea where your kid is reading when they are above grade level phonics? For example, if a Kindergartner is reading at the end of first grade, it isn’t reported or noted anywhere?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids public has 400 kids who all come from educated and middle to upper class families. If Why hasn’t there been a peep about curriculum concerns, let alone an uproar? Is it possible that the entire teaching staff, district admin, and parents are ALL clueless? I find that hard to believe. They use F&P balanced literacy and writers workshop. I don’t know about upper elementary, but so far there’s been no homework except a weekly set of graded readers in K and 1st, and 1 math worksheet per week in 1st-2nd.

I will say virtually no students coming out of our “award winning” top high school go to top 20 colleges. A big 10 state school is the end all be all of coveted reach.

What are you talking about? There's been a nationwide uproar for several years about this. It's been huge in the educational world. If you don't know about it and have a kid in elementary school, then you have your head in the sand. Listen to the Sold a Story podcast to catch up and then read some news.

Right, my point is why haven't any of the 400 families in my area said a WORD about any of this? Our balanced literacy curriculum was just implemented in 2019, AFTER a lot of this news and studies came out. I'm not sure what the school district used prior to 2019. But there's been ZERO grumbling about how reading, literacy, writing are taught in my school. There are NO people moving to private schools except for a couple of families who opt for Catholics due to religious reasons. I'm literally the only non-Catholic looking at Catholic school, because every other person is fine with the local public. That's why I'm wondering if this Lucy Calkins / Balanced literacy bashing is really most present in our little DCUM echo chamber and among educational circles in certain areas, and the vast majority of even wealthy/educated professionals are not aware of this at all. Many universities teaching educators are still teaching methods based on Caulkins and F&P.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids public has 400 kids who all come from educated and middle to upper class families. If Why hasn’t there been a peep about curriculum concerns, let alone an uproar? Is it possible that the entire teaching staff, district admin, and parents are ALL clueless? I find that hard to believe. They use F&P balanced literacy and writers workshop. I don’t know about upper elementary, but so far there’s been no homework except a weekly set of graded readers in K and 1st, and 1 math worksheet per week in 1st-2nd.

I will say virtually no students coming out of our “award winning” top high school go to top 20 colleges. A big 10 state school is the end all be all of coveted reach.

What are you talking about? There's been a nationwide uproar for several years about this. It's been huge in the educational world. If you don't know about it and have a kid in elementary school, then you have your head in the sand. Listen to the Sold a Story podcast to catch up and then read some news.

Examples of coverage:
The Atlantic - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/12/lucy-calkins-child-literacy-teaching-methodology/680394/

Forbes- https://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliewexler/2021/11/21/problems-with-lucy-calkins-curriculum-go-beyond-reading-to-writing/

NYTimes-
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/22/us/reading-teaching-curriculum-phonics.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/us/lucy-calkins-teachers-college.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/06/podcasts/the-daily/reading-school-phonics.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/21/us/lucy-calkins-race-gender-curriculum.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/04/opinion/letters/reading-phonics.html

Vox-
https://www.vox.com/23815311/science-of-reading-movement-literacy-learning-loss

Boston Globe -
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/12/04/metro/science-of-reading-lawsuit-calkins-fountas-pinnell-heinemann/

Education Week-
https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/4-things-to-know-about-the-literacy-lawsuit-targeting-lucy-calkins-and-fountas-pinnell/2024/12

https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/parents-sue-lucy-calkins-fountas-and-pinnell-and-others-over-reading-curricula/2024/12

NYPost -
https://nypost.com/2023/09/21/repairing-the-damage-columbias-teachers-college-did-to-american-kids-will-take-years/

Slate-
https://slate.com/human-interest/2023/10/reading-phonics-literacy-calkins-curriculum-public-school.html

The New Yorker-
https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-education/the-rise-and-fall-of-vibes-based-literacy

CBS News-
https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/literacy-materials-dropped-by-many-schools-face-new-pressure-from-struggling-readers-parents-2/

Newsweek-
https://www.newsweek.com/our-terrible-education-system-not-pandemic-blame-low-test-scores-opinion-1810588

Etc.

Most (all?) of these stories have to do with phonics and reading. What about the writing workshop piece, which is what the thread is about?

Anonymous wrote:What is wrong with writing workshops, if students can already read and know phonics?

Are old school readers and textbooks like HMH better for 3rd-5th literacy?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids public has 400 kids who all come from educated and middle to upper class families. If Why hasn’t there been a peep about curriculum concerns, let alone an uproar? Is it possible that the entire teaching staff, district admin, and parents are ALL clueless? I find that hard to believe. They use F&P balanced literacy and writers workshop. I don’t know about upper elementary, but so far there’s been no homework except a weekly set of graded readers in K and 1st, and 1 math worksheet per week in 1st-2nd.

I will say virtually no students coming out of our “award winning” top high school go to top 20 colleges. A big 10 state school is the end all be all of coveted reach.

What are you talking about? There's been a nationwide uproar for several years about this. It's been huge in the educational world. If you don't know about it and have a kid in elementary school, then you have your head in the sand. Listen to the Sold a Story podcast to catch up and then read some news.

Examples of coverage:
The Atlantic - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/12/lucy-calkins-child-literacy-teaching-methodology/680394/

Forbes- https://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliewexler/2021/11/21/problems-with-lucy-calkins-curriculum-go-beyond-reading-to-writing/

NYTimes-
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/22/us/reading-teaching-curriculum-phonics.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/us/lucy-calkins-teachers-college.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/06/podcasts/the-daily/reading-school-phonics.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/21/us/lucy-calkins-race-gender-curriculum.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/04/opinion/letters/reading-phonics.html

Vox-
https://www.vox.com/23815311/science-of-reading-movement-literacy-learning-loss

Boston Globe -
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/12/04/metro/science-of-reading-lawsuit-calkins-fountas-pinnell-heinemann/

Education Week-
https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/4-things-to-know-about-the-literacy-lawsuit-targeting-lucy-calkins-and-fountas-pinnell/2024/12

https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/parents-sue-lucy-calkins-fountas-and-pinnell-and-others-over-reading-curricula/2024/12

NYPost -
https://nypost.com/2023/09/21/repairing-the-damage-columbias-teachers-college-did-to-american-kids-will-take-years/

Slate-
https://slate.com/human-interest/2023/10/reading-phonics-literacy-calkins-curriculum-public-school.html

The New Yorker-
https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-education/the-rise-and-fall-of-vibes-based-literacy

CBS News-
https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/literacy-materials-dropped-by-many-schools-face-new-pressure-from-struggling-readers-parents-2/

Newsweek-
https://www.newsweek.com/our-terrible-education-system-not-pandemic-blame-low-test-scores-opinion-1810588

Etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids public has 400 kids who all come from educated and middle to upper class families. If Why hasn’t there been a peep about curriculum concerns, let alone an uproar? Is it possible that the entire teaching staff, district admin, and parents are ALL clueless? I find that hard to believe. They use F&P balanced literacy and writers workshop. I don’t know about upper elementary, but so far there’s been no homework except a weekly set of graded readers in K and 1st, and 1 math worksheet per week in 1st-2nd.

I will say virtually no students coming out of our “award winning” top high school go to top 20 colleges. A big 10 state school is the end all be all of coveted reach.

What are you talking about? There's been a nationwide uproar for several years about this. It's been huge in the educational world. If you don't know about it and have a kid in elementary school, then you have your head in the sand. Listen to the Sold a Story podcast to catch up and then read some news.

Anonymous wrote:My favorite LC story is the year my kid jumped from level E to level M in reading in a month. Why? The story she was tested on for E was about baseball and she couldn’t guess what some of the words were, which was supposed to be easy… Only we’d just moved to the country and she’d literally never heard of baseball, so had zero framework to even sound out from. (Like “pitcher” and “base” and “diamond” were all at Level E because you could guess from the first letter and the picture if you’d ever heard these words… but actually pitcher is not on the same level as dog as LC claimed (cvc and common/easy to depict words were the same) and is very hard for a kid to figure out if she’s never heard the word and doesn’t even recognize the sport. Then suddenly a different teacher declared her at Level M because she could read a Level M book about a topic she was familiar with (so where the first letter and guess method worked). Absolute lunacy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids public has 400 kids who all come from educated and middle to upper class families. If Why hasn’t there been a peep about curriculum concerns, let alone an uproar? Is it possible that the entire teaching staff, district admin, and parents are ALL clueless? I find that hard to believe. They use F&P balanced literacy and writers workshop. I don’t know about upper elementary, but so far there’s been no homework except a weekly set of graded readers in K and 1st, and 1 math worksheet per week in 1st-2nd.

I will say virtually no students coming out of our “award winning” top high school go to top 20 colleges. A big 10 state school is the end all be all of coveted reach.

What are you talking about? There's been a nationwide uproar for several years about this. It's been huge in the educational world. If you don't know about it and have a kid in elementary school, then you have your head in the sand. Listen to the Sold a Story podcast to catch up and then read some news.

Examples of coverage:
The Atlantic - https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/12/lucy-calkins-child-literacy-teaching-methodology/680394/

Forbes- https://www.forbes.com/sites/nataliewexler/2021/11/21/problems-with-lucy-calkins-curriculum-go-beyond-reading-to-writing/

NYTimes-
https://www.nytimes.com/2022/05/22/us/reading-teaching-curriculum-phonics.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/09/08/us/lucy-calkins-teachers-college.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/06/06/podcasts/the-daily/reading-school-phonics.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/07/21/us/lucy-calkins-race-gender-curriculum.html

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/06/04/opinion/letters/reading-phonics.html

Vox-
https://www.vox.com/23815311/science-of-reading-movement-literacy-learning-loss

Boston Globe -
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2024/12/04/metro/science-of-reading-lawsuit-calkins-fountas-pinnell-heinemann/

Education Week-
https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/4-things-to-know-about-the-literacy-lawsuit-targeting-lucy-calkins-and-fountas-pinnell/2024/12

https://www.edweek.org/teaching-learning/parents-sue-lucy-calkins-fountas-and-pinnell-and-others-over-reading-curricula/2024/12

NYPost -
https://nypost.com/2023/09/21/repairing-the-damage-columbias-teachers-college-did-to-american-kids-will-take-years/

Slate-
https://slate.com/human-interest/2023/10/reading-phonics-literacy-calkins-curriculum-public-school.html

The New Yorker-
https://www.newyorker.com/news/annals-of-education/the-rise-and-fall-of-vibes-based-literacy

CBS News-
https://www.cbsnews.com/pittsburgh/news/literacy-materials-dropped-by-many-schools-face-new-pressure-from-struggling-readers-parents-2/

Newsweek-
https://www.newsweek.com/our-terrible-education-system-not-pandemic-blame-low-test-scores-opinion-1810588

Etc.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids public has 400 kids who all come from educated and middle to upper class families. If Why hasn’t there been a peep about curriculum concerns, let alone an uproar? Is it possible that the entire teaching staff, district admin, and parents are ALL clueless? I find that hard to believe. They use F&P balanced literacy and writers workshop. I don’t know about upper elementary, but so far there’s been no homework except a weekly set of graded readers in K and 1st, and 1 math worksheet per week in 1st-2nd.

I will say virtually no students coming out of our “award winning” top high school go to top 20 colleges. A big 10 state school is the end all be all of coveted reach.

What are you talking about? There's been a nationwide uproar for several years about this. It's been huge in the educational world. If you don't know about it and have a kid in elementary school, then you have your head in the sand. Listen to the Sold a Story podcast to catch up and then read some news.

Anonymous wrote:While there are many flaws with Lucy’s curriculum, there are three positives that I’m concerned are going to the wayside with the science of reading movement.

1. Opportunity to read books. CKLA is generally strong and research-based. However, with this and similar curriculums, there isn’t necessarily space for kids to read for enjoyment at school. Classroom libraries (even organized by genre/topic) are being eliminated. I’ve seen this have negative impacts, especially in grades 3 and onward, on students’ engagement and creating a community of readers.

2. Lucy emphasizes interactive read aloud, which research shows is important even with middle and high school students. It builds vocabulary, comprehension, fluency, and not to mention, provides an opportunity to incorporate community and character building. This goes to the wayside with passages on passages.

3. Less focus on writing. Many schools have a narrow view of the science of reading, which has minimized writing. Students need to write for many purposes and audiences. Writing workshop carves out time for writing (not handwriting, that needs to be taught separately and systematically).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My favorite LC story is the year my kid jumped from level E to level M in reading in a month. Why? The story she was tested on for E was about baseball and she couldn’t guess what some of the words were, which was supposed to be easy… Only we’d just moved to the country and she’d literally never heard of baseball, so had zero framework to even sound out from. (Like “pitcher” and “base” and “diamond” were all at Level E because you could guess from the first letter and the picture if you’d ever heard these words… but actually pitcher is not on the same level as dog as LC claimed (cvc and common/easy to depict words were the same) and is very hard for a kid to figure out if she’s never heard the word and doesn’t even recognize the sport. Then suddenly a different teacher declared her at Level M because she could read a Level M book about a topic she was familiar with (so where the first letter and guess method worked). Absolute lunacy.

PP. This is what I meant by having issues with doing the book leveling for guided reading. For somebody who was a strong early reader, the book leveling seemed unintuitive. Ideally, students could choose a harder book that looked interesting and just ask for a little help or even try using a kid's dictionary or Google. But they were supposed to stick in their level range for best results. There was no plan for the kids that had a big step-up in ability other than I guess they could read from any level if they had topped out.