Montgomery County has turned into a dump. Back in the 70's it was the richest county in US. Now its number 26. What's that tell you. All the wealth has left. They saw what was happening and got out at the right time.

I remember coming to Bethesda to stay at a chain hotel I had points in in early 2000s, but ultimately it was rather underwhelming and I went to DC a lot. DC was very vibrant back then, lots of young people. Clarendon was similar to Bethesda back then IMHO. It started to get some spillover of young people from DC that was getting more expensive. But there wasn't much there back then and residential architecture was rather ugly. Of course, it's now mostly rebuilt.

I'd say both Bethesda and Arlington developed in equal strides. They both now have attractive retail/dining main street areas, condos, THs and SFHs. Arlington is just a longer strip because of Clarendon joining Ballston. And because it still attracts a lot of young people it has more youthful energy while Bethesda trends older, family people, and has more stuffy type of environment.

Silver Spring was not on my radar to visit and still isn't. I have family near there and the only reason we'd go there a few times a year, but I never had an urge to stop off and linger in its downtown area.

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Anonymous wrote:My grandma settled in bethesda in the 50s… so yes I remember when it was nicer.

I moved to Bethesda in 1964, as a 3 year old. I prefer the Bethesda of today, much more going on, lots of places to eat and shop. When I was a kid we had a Hot Shoppes and auto body shops in downtown Bethesda, plus the Strosniders/Bruce Variety shopping strip. It was pretty basic.

+1. It had the sorts of places that people today would look down on today -- a sitdown Pizza Hut restaurant, Roy Rogers, Burger King, Baskin Robbins, McDonalds. When people say it was nicer at some point in the past, I have no idea what they miss about it.

I disagree. I grew up in Bethesda from the mid-80s to the mid-2000s and thought it was great. I miss Louisiana Express, Rio Grande (Uncle Julio's in the new location, if it's even still there, isn't the same), Il Forno, Matuba. Tons of other great restaurants I'm not thinking of right now. I live in DC but still go to Bethesda frequently or my kids' activities, and I still enjoy it now, but it was great back then too. I am bummed out by the number of car dealerships in the downtown area. what a poor choice. They cause a lot of congestion. (Just last night, Arlington Rd. was down to one lane during rush hour because of a huge trucking delivering new cars.) Those were always on Rockville Pike when I was growing up; not sure why that changed. That downtown Bethesda retail space could be used for so many better things.

The obsession with crime on this post, when talking about any area, is just odd. Bethesda was not unsafe in the 80s/90s/2000s and is not unsafe now.

The only two dealerships in downtown Bethesda that are more than just a storefront are the Mercedes and Honda dealerships, and both have been there forever and have a small footprint (they're not the eyesores you see in Tysons). If you've been around long enough to remember the restaurants you named, then you've been around long enough to know that the Mercedes dealership on Arlington Rd has always been there and sometimes has delivery trucks. I think the only new addition is the Volvo storefront across the street, which maybe has one or two cars on display.

Comparing Tysons to Bethesda is pointless. They’re dissimilar places and Tysons isn’t trying to be Bethesda. A better comparison to Bethesda is the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor in Arlington. Ballston used to be a wasteland 20 years ago and now has a lot of the same kind of retail and eateries that Bethesda has.

The overall point is that NoVA has been getting dramatically more investment in the past 10-20 years compared to MoCo and PG. I don’t think there’s any disputing this.

Agree. I grew up in Bethesda and now live in Arlington. Arlington was not a desirable place to live when I was young. Arlington is MUCH nicer than it used to be and quite expensive. It definitely has better restaurants than Bethesda. It's also a lot bigger and has a lot more commercial business.

This is what Maryland boosters are ignoring. The thread is about the trajectory of the regions. Arlington used to be a craphole compared to Bethesda in the 90s and was on par with Silver Spring. Now look at retail options, housing prices, and any other metric you want to judge Arlington and Silver Spring by.

This close-in Silver Spring house was $538,000 in 2005 and is only selling for $735,000 today. That’s pitiful appreciation for this area in 20 years. This same house would be $1M at least in a comparable neighborhood in Arlington by now.

https://www.redfin.com/MD/Silver-Spring/522-Dartmouth-Ave-20910/home/10967986

Housing appreciating should not be a thing.

It is a thing because of inflation alone. And people voting where they want to live (supply demand). But inflation part of it is hard to ignore.

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Anonymous wrote:Yeah Silver Spring has been going downhill (still love AFI Silver tho, best repertory movie theater in the country).

Bethesda is still really nice, better than any place in NoVa to me. But other than Bethesda I’d take the Clarendon-Ballston-Arlington Forest region over any place in MoCo

The problem with Bethesda is that that’s it. There is no reason to go anywhere else in MoCo. Everywhere north and east of Bethesda in suburban MD is either more dangerous or has less amenities.

In Arlington, you can drive to neighborhoods like Del Ray, Old Town, McLean, Tysons, Mosaic, etc. All of these places are as safe as Arlington and have either more or different types of retail than Arlington, like the boutiques in Del Ray or Tysons Mall.

Only if you prefer shiny new development and chain stores more than rooted communities with character and diverse neighbors.

Old Town is a shiny new development? It probably has the most character and charm together with Gtown than anything else in DC metro.

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Anonymous wrote:I bought a SFH in 2007 and looked at both Bethesda and north Arlington. Comparable properties were in each area were priced the same. I have no idea where people are getting the idea that north Arlington was ever cheap — it wasn’t.

+1. North Arlington has always been uglier than Bethesda, which seems to be throwing people off. They assume that because it has always looked uglier than Bethesda, it should have been cheaper 20 years ago. But the simple truth is that both areas have always been desirable and always will be desirable. If North Arlington got to be much cheaper than Bethesda, or vice versa, the market would self-correct because people would start flocking to the cheaper place. This isn't complicated.

Just as an example, this North Arlington home sold for $1.5 million in 2004. Again, that area was simply never cheap:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2307-N-Randolph-St-Arlington-VA-22207/64670918_zpid/

There aren’t even interior photos of that place. For all we know it could be dilapidated inside. The Silver Spring and Arlington houses PP posted are almost exactly the same size, style, age, and have the same types of upgrades.

Also, the goalposts keep moving. Now it is “North Arlington” against all of Bethesda. All of Arlington, as a whole, was not seen as desirable as Bethesda 20 years ago. If you think that, you never visited Columbia Pike a bunch of other parts of South Arlington. Compare Columbia Pike’s evolution over the past 20 years to Georgia Avenue’s evolution over the past 20 years. There is not even a comparison in terms of economic development and quality of life improvement.

The goalposts are not moving, except by you. For some bizarre reason, you keep wanting to compare South Arlington with Bethesda. North Arlington and Bethesda have always been comparable in terms of real estate prices. I have no clue if South Arlington was comparable to Silver Spring 20 years ago, but the simple fact is that South Arlington benefited greatly from Amazon. If you need someone to acknowledge that Silver Spring hasn't kept up with South Arlington in terms of real estate appreciation, that's the reason. Silver Spring is a very nice place to live, but it doesn't have Amazon.

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Anonymous wrote:I bought a SFH in 2007 and looked at both Bethesda and north Arlington. Comparable properties were in each area were priced the same. I have no idea where people are getting the idea that north Arlington was ever cheap — it wasn’t.

+1. North Arlington has always been uglier than Bethesda, which seems to be throwing people off. They assume that because it has always looked uglier than Bethesda, it should have been cheaper 20 years ago. But the simple truth is that both areas have always been desirable and always will be desirable. If North Arlington got to be much cheaper than Bethesda, or vice versa, the market would self-correct because people would start flocking to the cheaper place. This isn't complicated.

Just as an example, this North Arlington home sold for $1.5 million in 2004. Again, that area was simply never cheap:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2307-N-Randolph-St-Arlington-VA-22207/64670918_zpid/

There aren’t even interior photos of that place. For all we know it could be dilapidated inside. The Silver Spring and Arlington houses PP posted are almost exactly the same size, style, age, and have the same types of upgrades.

Also, the goalposts keep moving. Now it is “North Arlington” against all of Bethesda. All of Arlington, as a whole, was not seen as desirable as Bethesda 20 years ago. If you think that, you never visited Columbia Pike a bunch of other parts of South Arlington. Compare Columbia Pike’s evolution over the past 20 years to Georgia Avenue’s evolution over the past 20 years. There is not even a comparison in terms of economic development and quality of life improvement.

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Anonymous wrote:I bought a SFH in 2007 and looked at both Bethesda and north Arlington. Comparable properties were in each area were priced the same. I have no idea where people are getting the idea that north Arlington was ever cheap — it wasn’t.

+1. North Arlington has always been uglier than Bethesda, which seems to be throwing people off. They assume that because it has always looked uglier than Bethesda, it should have been cheaper 20 years ago. But the simple truth is that both areas have always been desirable and always will be desirable. If North Arlington got to be much cheaper than Bethesda, or vice versa, the market would self-correct because people would start flocking to the cheaper place. This isn't complicated.

There are assertions on here that all of Arlington was more expensive and not comparable to Silver Spring 20 years ago which is just not true. Arlington south of Route 50 was as expensive as housing in Silver Spring, especially near downtown Silver Spring and Forest Glen, 20 years ago. Since then South Arlington has become much more expensive than Silver Spring. Just look at the area around Snider’s Grocery as an example of why that is. That whole area was much nicer 10-20 years ago. RIP Woodside Diner.

Anonymous wrote:NoVa guy, why does any of this matter to you? I seriously want to know. Who cares if some people prefer Bethesda? People are well-aware of the economic trajectory around of MD and still choose it. It isn't an attack on you.

I am wondering the same as well. Who cares, just choose a place to live, and let other people choose their own.

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Anonymous wrote:I bought a SFH in 2007 and looked at both Bethesda and north Arlington. Comparable properties were in each area were priced the same. I have no idea where people are getting the idea that north Arlington was ever cheap — it wasn’t.

+1. North Arlington has always been uglier than Bethesda, which seems to be throwing people off. They assume that because it has always looked uglier than Bethesda, it should have been cheaper 20 years ago. But the simple truth is that both areas have always been desirable and always will be desirable. If North Arlington got to be much cheaper than Bethesda, or vice versa, the market would self-correct because people would start flocking to the cheaper place. This isn't complicated.

Just as an example, this North Arlington home sold for $1.5 million in 2004. Again, that area was simply never cheap:

https://www.zillow.com/homedetails/2307-N-Randolph-St-Arlington-VA-22207/64670918_zpid/

Anonymous wrote:I bought a SFH in 2007 and looked at both Bethesda and north Arlington. Comparable properties were in each area were priced the same. I have no idea where people are getting the idea that north Arlington was ever cheap — it wasn’t.

+1. North Arlington has always been uglier than Bethesda, which seems to be throwing people off. They assume that because it has always looked uglier than Bethesda, it should have been cheaper 20 years ago. But the simple truth is that both areas have always been desirable and always will be desirable. If North Arlington got to be much cheaper than Bethesda, or vice versa, the market would self-correct because people would start flocking to the cheaper place. This isn't complicated.

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Anonymous wrote:NoVa guy, why does any of this matter to you? I seriously want to know. Who cares if some people prefer Bethesda? People are well-aware of the economic trajectory around of MD and still choose it. It isn't an attack on you.

I care because I want MD to reverse course because it’s a vital part of our region. You need to elect reps that will help you reverse course. With all there fed cuts now is not the time to be anti job growth / development.

lol so you spend your time concern trolling here about it?

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Anonymous wrote:My grandma settled in bethesda in the 50s… so yes I remember when it was nicer.

I moved to Bethesda in 1964, as a 3 year old. I prefer the Bethesda of today, much more going on, lots of places to eat and shop. When I was a kid we had a Hot Shoppes and auto body shops in downtown Bethesda, plus the Strosniders/Bruce Variety shopping strip. It was pretty basic.

+1. It had the sorts of places that people today would look down on today -- a sitdown Pizza Hut restaurant, Roy Rogers, Burger King, Baskin Robbins, McDonalds. When people say it was nicer at some point in the past, I have no idea what they miss about it.

I disagree. I grew up in Bethesda from the mid-80s to the mid-2000s and thought it was great. I miss Louisiana Express, Rio Grande (Uncle Julio's in the new location, if it's even still there, isn't the same), Il Forno, Matuba. Tons of other great restaurants I'm not thinking of right now. I live in DC but still go to Bethesda frequently or my kids' activities, and I still enjoy it now, but it was great back then too. I am bummed out by the number of car dealerships in the downtown area. what a poor choice. They cause a lot of congestion. (Just last night, Arlington Rd. was down to one lane during rush hour because of a huge trucking delivering new cars.) Those were always on Rockville Pike when I was growing up; not sure why that changed. That downtown Bethesda retail space could be used for so many better things.

The obsession with crime on this post, when talking about any area, is just odd. Bethesda was not unsafe in the 80s/90s/2000s and is not unsafe now.

The only two dealerships in downtown Bethesda that are more than just a storefront are the Mercedes and Honda dealerships, and both have been there forever and have a small footprint (they're not the eyesores you see in Tysons). If you've been around long enough to remember the restaurants you named, then you've been around long enough to know that the Mercedes dealership on Arlington Rd has always been there and sometimes has delivery trucks. I think the only new addition is the Volvo storefront across the street, which maybe has one or two cars on display.

Comparing Tysons to Bethesda is pointless. They’re dissimilar places and Tysons isn’t trying to be Bethesda. A better comparison to Bethesda is the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor in Arlington. Ballston used to be a wasteland 20 years ago and now has a lot of the same kind of retail and eateries that Bethesda has.

The overall point is that NoVA has been getting dramatically more investment in the past 10-20 years compared to MoCo and PG. I don’t think there’s any disputing this.

Agree. I grew up in Bethesda and now live in Arlington. Arlington was not a desirable place to live when I was young. Arlington is MUCH nicer than it used to be and quite expensive. It definitely has better restaurants than Bethesda. It's also a lot bigger and has a lot more commercial business.

This is not true at all. I have been curious about this, and one thing I've noticed is that houses in Bethesda and Arlington have both gone up approximately 10x in value since about the early 1980s. It's actually pretty interesting how it's true for both areas. I personally grew up in Bethesda, and it was not nice in the 1980s. You can look up pictures from then to confirm.

Bethesda boosters keep moving the goalposts. The argument is about the past 20 years and the trajectory of NoVa compared to Silver Spring and Bethesda. Not how nice Bethesda has become since 1980 or 1960. I’m sure there is more to do in Bethesda than there was in 1913.

Unfortunately, it's you NoVa people that move the goalposts. Of course it's relevant that housing appreciation of Bethesda and Arlington have been comparable since the 1980s. It basically shows that the argument that Bethesda was somehow nicer than Arlington in the 80s or 90s is nonsense -- they've always both had the same level of desirability driven by the fact that they relatively nice, inside-the-beltway suburbs.

Silver Spring has never been comparable to Bethesda or Arlington, so that's a total red herring that demonstrates the dishonesty of the NoVa boosters in this thread.

Really? Let’s compare 1,700 sq ft SFHs in North Arlington and Silver Spring. Both boring, boxy, brick colonials.

Silver Spring Home - Selling for $698,000. Sold in 2005 for $489,000

https://www.redfin.com/MD/Silver-Spring/2401-Hayden-Dr-20902/home/10990843

North Arlington Home - Contingent in 4 days for $949,000. Sold in 2003 for $399,000.

https://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/224-N-Greenbrier-St-22203/home/11243432

Silver Spring and Arlington both have a lot of these 1940s boxy colonials and I promise you they were selling for comparable prices in the early 2000s. The example I used from Silver Spring isn’t even in the nicest part of Silver Spring like Woodside. It’s in Forest Glen / Wheaton.

Prices increased by about 50% from 2003 to 2005. I guess you didn't live through that housing bubble.

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Anonymous wrote:My grandma settled in bethesda in the 50s… so yes I remember when it was nicer.

I moved to Bethesda in 1964, as a 3 year old. I prefer the Bethesda of today, much more going on, lots of places to eat and shop. When I was a kid we had a Hot Shoppes and auto body shops in downtown Bethesda, plus the Strosniders/Bruce Variety shopping strip. It was pretty basic.

+1. It had the sorts of places that people today would look down on today -- a sitdown Pizza Hut restaurant, Roy Rogers, Burger King, Baskin Robbins, McDonalds. When people say it was nicer at some point in the past, I have no idea what they miss about it.

I disagree. I grew up in Bethesda from the mid-80s to the mid-2000s and thought it was great. I miss Louisiana Express, Rio Grande (Uncle Julio's in the new location, if it's even still there, isn't the same), Il Forno, Matuba. Tons of other great restaurants I'm not thinking of right now. I live in DC but still go to Bethesda frequently or my kids' activities, and I still enjoy it now, but it was great back then too. I am bummed out by the number of car dealerships in the downtown area. what a poor choice. They cause a lot of congestion. (Just last night, Arlington Rd. was down to one lane during rush hour because of a huge trucking delivering new cars.) Those were always on Rockville Pike when I was growing up; not sure why that changed. That downtown Bethesda retail space could be used for so many better things.

The obsession with crime on this post, when talking about any area, is just odd. Bethesda was not unsafe in the 80s/90s/2000s and is not unsafe now.

The only two dealerships in downtown Bethesda that are more than just a storefront are the Mercedes and Honda dealerships, and both have been there forever and have a small footprint (they're not the eyesores you see in Tysons). If you've been around long enough to remember the restaurants you named, then you've been around long enough to know that the Mercedes dealership on Arlington Rd has always been there and sometimes has delivery trucks. I think the only new addition is the Volvo storefront across the street, which maybe has one or two cars on display.

Comparing Tysons to Bethesda is pointless. They’re dissimilar places and Tysons isn’t trying to be Bethesda. A better comparison to Bethesda is the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor in Arlington. Ballston used to be a wasteland 20 years ago and now has a lot of the same kind of retail and eateries that Bethesda has.

The overall point is that NoVA has been getting dramatically more investment in the past 10-20 years compared to MoCo and PG. I don’t think there’s any disputing this.

Agree. I grew up in Bethesda and now live in Arlington. Arlington was not a desirable place to live when I was young. Arlington is MUCH nicer than it used to be and quite expensive. It definitely has better restaurants than Bethesda. It's also a lot bigger and has a lot more commercial business.

This is not true at all. I have been curious about this, and one thing I've noticed is that houses in Bethesda and Arlington have both gone up approximately 10x in value since about the early 1980s. It's actually pretty interesting how it's true for both areas. I personally grew up in Bethesda, and it was not nice in the 1980s. You can look up pictures from then to confirm.

Bethesda boosters keep moving the goalposts. The argument is about the past 20 years and the trajectory of NoVa compared to Silver Spring and Bethesda. Not how nice Bethesda has become since 1980 or 1960. I’m sure there is more to do in Bethesda than there was in 1913.

Unfortunately, it's you NoVa people that move the goalposts. Of course it's relevant that housing appreciation of Bethesda and Arlington have been comparable since the 1980s. It basically shows that the argument that Bethesda was somehow nicer than Arlington in the 80s or 90s is nonsense -- they've always both had the same level of desirability driven by the fact that they relatively nice, inside-the-beltway suburbs.

Silver Spring has never been comparable to Bethesda or Arlington, so that's a total red herring that demonstrates the dishonesty of the NoVa boosters in this thread.

Really? Let’s compare 1,700 sq ft SFHs in North Arlington and Silver Spring. Both boring, boxy, brick colonials.

Silver Spring Home - Selling for $698,000. Sold in 2005 for $489,000

https://www.redfin.com/MD/Silver-Spring/2401-Hayden-Dr-20902/home/10990843

North Arlington Home - Contingent in 4 days for $949,000. Sold in 2003 for $399,000.

https://www.redfin.com/VA/Arlington/224-N-Greenbrier-St-22203/home/11243432

Silver Spring and Arlington both have a lot of these 1940s boxy colonials and I promise you they were selling for comparable prices in the early 2000s. The example I used from Silver Spring isn’t even in the nicest part of Silver Spring like Woodside. It’s in Forest Glen / Wheaton.

I bought a SFH in 2007 and looked at both Bethesda and north Arlington. Comparable properties were in each area were priced the same. I have no idea where people are getting the idea that north Arlington was ever cheap — it wasn’t.

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Anonymous wrote:My grandma settled in bethesda in the 50s… so yes I remember when it was nicer.

I moved to Bethesda in 1964, as a 3 year old. I prefer the Bethesda of today, much more going on, lots of places to eat and shop. When I was a kid we had a Hot Shoppes and auto body shops in downtown Bethesda, plus the Strosniders/Bruce Variety shopping strip. It was pretty basic.

+1. It had the sorts of places that people today would look down on today -- a sitdown Pizza Hut restaurant, Roy Rogers, Burger King, Baskin Robbins, McDonalds. When people say it was nicer at some point in the past, I have no idea what they miss about it.

I disagree. I grew up in Bethesda from the mid-80s to the mid-2000s and thought it was great. I miss Louisiana Express, Rio Grande (Uncle Julio's in the new location, if it's even still there, isn't the same), Il Forno, Matuba. Tons of other great restaurants I'm not thinking of right now. I live in DC but still go to Bethesda frequently or my kids' activities, and I still enjoy it now, but it was great back then too. I am bummed out by the number of car dealerships in the downtown area. what a poor choice. They cause a lot of congestion. (Just last night, Arlington Rd. was down to one lane during rush hour because of a huge trucking delivering new cars.) Those were always on Rockville Pike when I was growing up; not sure why that changed. That downtown Bethesda retail space could be used for so many better things.

The obsession with crime on this post, when talking about any area, is just odd. Bethesda was not unsafe in the 80s/90s/2000s and is not unsafe now.

The only two dealerships in downtown Bethesda that are more than just a storefront are the Mercedes and Honda dealerships, and both have been there forever and have a small footprint (they're not the eyesores you see in Tysons). If you've been around long enough to remember the restaurants you named, then you've been around long enough to know that the Mercedes dealership on Arlington Rd has always been there and sometimes has delivery trucks. I think the only new addition is the Volvo storefront across the street, which maybe has one or two cars on display.

Comparing Tysons to Bethesda is pointless. They’re dissimilar places and Tysons isn’t trying to be Bethesda. A better comparison to Bethesda is the Rosslyn-Ballston corridor in Arlington. Ballston used to be a wasteland 20 years ago and now has a lot of the same kind of retail and eateries that Bethesda has.

The overall point is that NoVA has been getting dramatically more investment in the past 10-20 years compared to MoCo and PG. I don’t think there’s any disputing this.

Agree. I grew up in Bethesda and now live in Arlington. Arlington was not a desirable place to live when I was young. Arlington is MUCH nicer than it used to be and quite expensive. It definitely has better restaurants than Bethesda. It's also a lot bigger and has a lot more commercial business.

This is not true at all. I have been curious about this, and one thing I've noticed is that houses in Bethesda and Arlington have both gone up approximately 10x in value since about the early 1980s. It's actually pretty interesting how it's true for both areas. I personally grew up in Bethesda, and it was not nice in the 1980s. You can look up pictures from then to confirm.

Bethesda boosters keep moving the goalposts. The argument is about the past 20 years and the trajectory of NoVa compared to Silver Spring and Bethesda. Not how nice Bethesda has become since 1980 or 1960. I’m sure there is more to do in Bethesda than there was in 1913.

Unfortunately, it's you NoVa people that move the goalposts. Of course it's relevant that housing appreciation of Bethesda and Arlington have been comparable since the 1980s. It basically shows that the argument that Bethesda was somehow nicer than Arlington in the 80s or 90s is nonsense -- they've always both had the same level of desirability driven by the fact that they relatively nice, inside-the-beltway suburbs.

Silver Spring has never been comparable to Bethesda or Arlington, so that's a total red herring that demonstrates the dishonesty of the NoVa boosters in this thread.