The years of an undergraduate are some of the most important in their lives. I think the culture and values are extremely important. It is the sense of entitlement and unearned privilege that makes Georgetown undesirable for us. Having grown up in this area we have experienced (and benefited from) this but feel getting away is a good thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Williams is a much more prestigious school and the clear choice unless you don’t want to be in rural MA. And wanting to be in a vibrant city instead of rural MA is totally valid!

Ask people overseas, which of these two had they likely heard of....?

Oh, oh, I can answer this! (I work in higher ed, often the field of international recruitment at my school and am unaffiliated with either Williams or Georgetown.)

The answer is, the vast majority of internationals have heard of neither. Internationals know of research-focused Ivies, Ivy+'s, and massive research public schools like Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Washington, and Illinois. Outside of international schools, they know very little about LACs, but they also know little about pre-professional schools like Georgetown, which isn't even ranked in the top 300 in the QS rankings (https://www.topuniversities.com/universities/georgetown-university) or top 500 in the Shanghai rankings (https://www.shanghairanking.com/rankings/arwu/2024).

Good. So they are on the same level of prestige in this sense, or the same level of lacking of it, not one is more prestigious than the other...

PP here. I personally think that the top 25-ish universities and top 10-ish LACs are all great schools and that decisions should be made on fit and program, not ranking or prestige. I went to a T20 research giant but one of my kids goes to a WASP school. They are both great in different ways.

For international students who plan to return to their country after graduation, the traditional thinking is that international prestige matters. So a school like Washington may have more cachet in India than, say, Dartmouth or Williams. But I think this may be changing a little. I visited some very prestigious international schools in Shanghai earlier this year, where the median SAT is around 1500 (keeping in mind that 98% of the students speak English as a second language). They often have photos and descriptions of the colleges where the prior graduating class matriculated, and I was surprised at many LACs were listed (rough guess: ~15-20%). And one of Korea's most prestigious international scholarships (Kwanjeong) is offered for Korean students studying in 15 elite U.S. colleges, which includes HYPSM but also WASP. It doesn't include Dartmouth, Cornell, or Duke.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Williams is a much more prestigious school and the clear choice unless you don’t want to be in rural MA. And wanting to be in a vibrant city instead of rural MA is totally valid!

Ask people overseas, which of these two had they likely heard of....?

Oh, oh, I can answer this! (I work in higher ed, often the field of international recruitment at my school and am unaffiliated with either Williams or Georgetown.)

The answer is, the vast majority of internationals have heard of neither. Internationals know of research-focused Ivies, Ivy+'s, and massive research public schools like Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Washington, and Illinois. Outside of international schools, they know very little about LACs, but they also know little about pre-professional schools like Georgetown, which isn't even ranked in the top 300 in the QS rankings (https://www.topuniversities.com/universities/georgetown-university) or top 500 in the Shanghai rankings (https://www.shanghairanking.com/rankings/arwu/2024).

Good. So they are on the same level of prestige in this sense, or the same level of lacking of it, not one is more prestigious than the other...

Williams is in the top tier of LACs, alongside Amherst, Bowdoin, Swarthmore, Bucknell, Middlebury, etc.

Georgetown is in the second tier of universities with Vanderbilt, WashU, Emory, Rice, etc. (The top university tier includes the Ivies, Stanford, Duke, MIT, etc.)

So, you’re comparing a top-tier LAC with a second-tier university. The question is how much more elite universities are compared to LACs. That’s a pretty nebulous comparison. Does the top tier of LACs align with the second tier of universities? It’s hard to say definitively, but they’re probably comparable.

Which means this whole discussion is like splitting hairs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Williams is a much more prestigious school and the clear choice unless you don’t want to be in rural MA. And wanting to be in a vibrant city instead of rural MA is totally valid!

Ask people overseas, which of these two had they likely heard of....?

Oh, oh, I can answer this! (I work in higher ed, often the field of international recruitment at my school and am unaffiliated with either Williams or Georgetown.)

The answer is, the vast majority of internationals have heard of neither. Internationals know of research-focused Ivies, Ivy+'s, and massive research public schools like Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Washington, and Illinois. Outside of international schools, they know very little about LACs, but they also know little about pre-professional schools like Georgetown, which isn't even ranked in the top 300 in the QS rankings (https://www.topuniversities.com/universities/georgetown-university) or top 500 in the Shanghai rankings (https://www.shanghairanking.com/rankings/arwu/2024).

UCLA is the most recognized university in the world...of course, skewed to the millions of folks in Asian countries that know of it.

It is interesting how Georgetown ranks so low. I gather Williams doesn't really show up because it's not a university?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Williams is a much more prestigious school and the clear choice unless you don’t want to be in rural MA. And wanting to be in a vibrant city instead of rural MA is totally valid!

Ask people overseas, which of these two had they likely heard of....?

Oh, oh, I can answer this! (I work in higher ed, often the field of international recruitment at my school and am unaffiliated with either Williams or Georgetown.)

The answer is, the vast majority of internationals have heard of neither. Internationals know of research-focused Ivies, Ivy+'s, and massive research public schools like Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Washington, and Illinois. Outside of international schools, they know very little about LACs, but they also know little about pre-professional schools like Georgetown, which isn't even ranked in the top 300 in the QS rankings (https://www.topuniversities.com/universities/georgetown-university) or top 500 in the Shanghai rankings (https://www.shanghairanking.com/rankings/arwu/2024).

Good. So they are on the same level of prestige in this sense, or the same level of lacking of it, not one is more prestigious than the other...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Williams is a much more prestigious school and the clear choice unless you don’t want to be in rural MA. And wanting to be in a vibrant city instead of rural MA is totally valid!

Ask people overseas, which of these two had they likely heard of....?

Oh, oh, I can answer this! (I work in higher ed, often the field of international recruitment at my school and am unaffiliated with either Williams or Georgetown.)

The answer is, the vast majority of internationals have heard of neither. Internationals know of research-focused Ivies, Ivy+'s, and massive research public schools like Berkeley, UCLA, Michigan, Washington, and Illinois. Outside of international schools, they know very little about LACs, but they also know little about pre-professional schools like Georgetown, which isn't even ranked in the top 300 in the QS rankings (https://www.topuniversities.com/universities/georgetown-university) or top 500 in the Shanghai rankings (https://www.shanghairanking.com/rankings/arwu/2024).

Anonymous wrote:Williams is a much more prestigious school and the clear choice unless you don’t want to be in rural MA. And wanting to be in a vibrant city instead of rural MA is totally valid!

Ask people overseas, which of these two had they likely heard of....?

Just to highlight how unusual it is for people to apply to Georgetown and Williams...Parchment doesn't even have any matchups to compare at all.

Parchment is flawed, but it usually has at least some matchups between any two prestigious colleges.

for finance, Williams and Georgetown McDonough are pretty equivalent. they're both targets for big firms, and major consulting groups recruit directly from campus

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Williams you get in because you are an above average athlete who is above average academically.

Georgetown you get in because you are excellent academically.

Williams has higher prestige than Georgetown. This is simply a DMV opinion.

Disagree.

Between Williams College and Georgetown University, Georgetown is viewed as the more prestigious school. Georgetown University is a National University recognized worldwide; Williams College is a small, rural LAC which mimics four year elite New England prep boarding schools. Nonetheless, both are outstanding educational institutions which offer very different experiences for an undergraduate student. But, only in the minds of LAC fanatics is Williams seen as the more prestigious educational institution.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting how both are “within reach“ for a kid who is barely through half of high school, especially when talking about two of the most selective colleges in the country?

He got a 1560 on the October SAT and likely National Merit Finalist and more than 2/3rd of his GPA is locked for ED/REA. And these are two pretty popular schools from his high school so naviance has pretty good data.

I get that you're trying to snark at me, but I'll reply in good faith. This was a big lesson from my first. Things shape up earlier than you think. Either you have the GPA on track and also have that state championship (in sport or debate or olympiad medal) or deep interest by now, or you don't. You can still make some things happen, but it's a limited time frame and scrambling in junior year sucks Protecting that GPA in 9th grade is big. So many kids chalk up a lot of Bs during "adjustment" to high school and look back at that like, why didn't I just study? also, getting into a competitive summer program or internship after 10th grade is easier than after 11th and bulks things up. And it's make sense to study for SAT in August before Junior year so you can do well on PSAT and just generally have it done.

Anyway, those two schools are within reach.

What is class rank? As someone who has been looking for every data point possible for Georgetown, it looks like top 5% is absolutely necessary without a hook. You may not be one of them, but I wish I had a penny for every parent who thinks a 1560 is going to save a GPA that is not truly at the very top and with tons of rigor. I've seen it time and time again

It's a private school that doesn't rank. It also has 20+ admits a year, far more than top 5% so I suspect this is a lot about what GU thinks of your high school. Georgetown is one of those schools that has a straight line for GPA (from our school anyway) and he's over it with a lot of room. Williams is a harder call - their naviance is a bit all over the map. But they have a "type" - judging from the kids who have gotten in the past from our school - and I think my kid matches that type.

That's what the schools tell you to avoid the question but your high school counselor knows and most likely your own kid knows. It's the girst thing readers for colleges assess by using the school profile and figuring out your kid's rank through GPA, no of AP courses taken, which AP courses, tescher's comments, etc. Takes a two minutes at most.

This is going to make your head explode: it's a private school that doesn't rank, that doesn't weigh any grades, and offers no AP courses. No kid has a 4.0 and yet, 20% of the class gets into HYPSM. Also, kids with 3.8 GPA get into Georgetown about 80% of the time.

I'm not saying I don't have information. I have a plenty. I'm saying the school doesn't rank.

Why would my head explode? I went to a very top and T3 law school and know Williams well (and HYPS). My kid was top kid in their private, undergrad, dual degrees at Oxford now applying to T7 law schools. I specialize in higher ed law. I was trying to help you understand that the kid's rank is always a known factor but you're too defensive to be worth my time.

T3 law school? I bet it was actually T1 my humble king. holy moly you're a real smart fella. What did you get on your LSAT??

King? I’m pretty sure this is Oxbridge mom. She’s a regular here.

I think he's a dad. Also, while it's true most high schools rank students, some do not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting how both are “within reach“ for a kid who is barely through half of high school, especially when talking about two of the most selective colleges in the country?

He got a 1560 on the October SAT and likely National Merit Finalist and more than 2/3rd of his GPA is locked for ED/REA. And these are two pretty popular schools from his high school so naviance has pretty good data.

I get that you're trying to snark at me, but I'll reply in good faith. This was a big lesson from my first. Things shape up earlier than you think. Either you have the GPA on track and also have that state championship (in sport or debate or olympiad medal) or deep interest by now, or you don't. You can still make some things happen, but it's a limited time frame and scrambling in junior year sucks Protecting that GPA in 9th grade is big. So many kids chalk up a lot of Bs during "adjustment" to high school and look back at that like, why didn't I just study? also, getting into a competitive summer program or internship after 10th grade is easier than after 11th and bulks things up. And it's make sense to study for SAT in August before Junior year so you can do well on PSAT and just generally have it done.

Anyway, those two schools are within reach.

What is class rank? As someone who has been looking for every data point possible for Georgetown, it looks like top 5% is absolutely necessary without a hook. You may not be one of them, but I wish I had a penny for every parent who thinks a 1560 is going to save a GPA that is not truly at the very top and with tons of rigor. I've seen it time and time again

It's a private school that doesn't rank. It also has 20+ admits a year, far more than top 5% so I suspect this is a lot about what GU thinks of your high school. Georgetown is one of those schools that has a straight line for GPA (from our school anyway) and he's over it with a lot of room. Williams is a harder call - their naviance is a bit all over the map. But they have a "type" - judging from the kids who have gotten in the past from our school - and I think my kid matches that type.

That's what the schools tell you to avoid the question but your high school counselor knows and most likely your own kid knows. It's the girst thing readers for colleges assess by using the school profile and figuring out your kid's rank through GPA, no of AP courses taken, which AP courses, tescher's comments, etc. Takes a two minutes at most.

This is going to make your head explode: it's a private school that doesn't rank, that doesn't weigh any grades, and offers no AP courses. No kid has a 4.0 and yet, 20% of the class gets into HYPSM. Also, kids with 3.8 GPA get into Georgetown about 80% of the time.

I'm not saying I don't have information. I have a plenty. I'm saying the school doesn't rank.

Why would my head explode? I went to a very top and T3 law school and know Williams well (and HYPS). My kid was top kid in their private, undergrad, dual degrees at Oxford now applying to T7 law schools. I specialize in higher ed law. I was trying to help you understand that the kid's rank is always a known factor but you're too defensive to be worth my time.

T3 law school? I bet it was actually T1 my humble king. holy moly you're a real smart fella. What did you get on your LSAT??

King? I’m pretty sure this is Oxbridge mom. She’s a regular here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting how both are “within reach“ for a kid who is barely through half of high school, especially when talking about two of the most selective colleges in the country?

He got a 1560 on the October SAT and likely National Merit Finalist and more than 2/3rd of his GPA is locked for ED/REA. And these are two pretty popular schools from his high school so naviance has pretty good data.

I get that you're trying to snark at me, but I'll reply in good faith. This was a big lesson from my first. Things shape up earlier than you think. Either you have the GPA on track and also have that state championship (in sport or debate or olympiad medal) or deep interest by now, or you don't. You can still make some things happen, but it's a limited time frame and scrambling in junior year sucks Protecting that GPA in 9th grade is big. So many kids chalk up a lot of Bs during "adjustment" to high school and look back at that like, why didn't I just study? also, getting into a competitive summer program or internship after 10th grade is easier than after 11th and bulks things up. And it's make sense to study for SAT in August before Junior year so you can do well on PSAT and just generally have it done.

Anyway, those two schools are within reach.

What is class rank? As someone who has been looking for every data point possible for Georgetown, it looks like top 5% is absolutely necessary without a hook. You may not be one of them, but I wish I had a penny for every parent who thinks a 1560 is going to save a GPA that is not truly at the very top and with tons of rigor. I've seen it time and time again

It's a private school that doesn't rank. It also has 20+ admits a year, far more than top 5% so I suspect this is a lot about what GU thinks of your high school. Georgetown is one of those schools that has a straight line for GPA (from our school anyway) and he's over it with a lot of room. Williams is a harder call - their naviance is a bit all over the map. But they have a "type" - judging from the kids who have gotten in the past from our school - and I think my kid matches that type.

That's what the schools tell you to avoid the question but your high school counselor knows and most likely your own kid knows. It's the girst thing readers for colleges assess by using the school profile and figuring out your kid's rank through GPA, no of AP courses taken, which AP courses, tescher's comments, etc. Takes a two minutes at most.

This is going to make your head explode: it's a private school that doesn't rank, that doesn't weigh any grades, and offers no AP courses. No kid has a 4.0 and yet, 20% of the class gets into HYPSM. Also, kids with 3.8 GPA get into Georgetown about 80% of the time.

I'm not saying I don't have information. I have a plenty. I'm saying the school doesn't rank.

Why would my head explode? I went to a very top and T3 law school and know Williams well (and HYPS). My kid was top kid in their private, undergrad, dual degrees at Oxford now applying to T7 law schools. I specialize in higher ed law. I was trying to help you understand that the kid's rank is always a known factor but you're too defensive to be worth my time.

Mr Mr Montauk!

Also: Some schools don’t rank. The end. Some schools don’t have GPAs even. Not every school in the US works just the same.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting how both are “within reach“ for a kid who is barely through half of high school, especially when talking about two of the most selective colleges in the country?

He got a 1560 on the October SAT and likely National Merit Finalist and more than 2/3rd of his GPA is locked for ED/REA. And these are two pretty popular schools from his high school so naviance has pretty good data.

I get that you're trying to snark at me, but I'll reply in good faith. This was a big lesson from my first. Things shape up earlier than you think. Either you have the GPA on track and also have that state championship (in sport or debate or olympiad medal) or deep interest by now, or you don't. You can still make some things happen, but it's a limited time frame and scrambling in junior year sucks Protecting that GPA in 9th grade is big. So many kids chalk up a lot of Bs during "adjustment" to high school and look back at that like, why didn't I just study? also, getting into a competitive summer program or internship after 10th grade is easier than after 11th and bulks things up. And it's make sense to study for SAT in August before Junior year so you can do well on PSAT and just generally have it done.

Anyway, those two schools are within reach.

What is class rank? As someone who has been looking for every data point possible for Georgetown, it looks like top 5% is absolutely necessary without a hook. You may not be one of them, but I wish I had a penny for every parent who thinks a 1560 is going to save a GPA that is not truly at the very top and with tons of rigor. I've seen it time and time again

It's a private school that doesn't rank. It also has 20+ admits a year, far more than top 5% so I suspect this is a lot about what GU thinks of your high school. Georgetown is one of those schools that has a straight line for GPA (from our school anyway) and he's over it with a lot of room. Williams is a harder call - their naviance is a bit all over the map. But they have a "type" - judging from the kids who have gotten in the past from our school - and I think my kid matches that type.

That's what the schools tell you to avoid the question but your high school counselor knows and most likely your own kid knows. It's the girst thing readers for colleges assess by using the school profile and figuring out your kid's rank through GPA, no of AP courses taken, which AP courses, tescher's comments, etc. Takes a two minutes at most.

This is going to make your head explode: it's a private school that doesn't rank, that doesn't weigh any grades, and offers no AP courses. No kid has a 4.0 and yet, 20% of the class gets into HYPSM. Also, kids with 3.8 GPA get into Georgetown about 80% of the time.

I'm not saying I don't have information. I have a plenty. I'm saying the school doesn't rank.

Why would my head explode? I went to a very top and T3 law school and know Williams well (and HYPS). My kid was top kid in their private, undergrad, dual degrees at Oxford now applying to T7 law schools. I specialize in higher ed law. I was trying to help you understand that the kid's rank is always a known factor but you're too defensive to be worth my time.

T3 law school? I bet it was actually T1 my humble king. holy moly you're a real smart fella. What did you get on your LSAT??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting how both are “within reach“ for a kid who is barely through half of high school, especially when talking about two of the most selective colleges in the country?

He got a 1560 on the October SAT and likely National Merit Finalist and more than 2/3rd of his GPA is locked for ED/REA. And these are two pretty popular schools from his high school so naviance has pretty good data.

I get that you're trying to snark at me, but I'll reply in good faith. This was a big lesson from my first. Things shape up earlier than you think. Either you have the GPA on track and also have that state championship (in sport or debate or olympiad medal) or deep interest by now, or you don't. You can still make some things happen, but it's a limited time frame and scrambling in junior year sucks Protecting that GPA in 9th grade is big. So many kids chalk up a lot of Bs during "adjustment" to high school and look back at that like, why didn't I just study? also, getting into a competitive summer program or internship after 10th grade is easier than after 11th and bulks things up. And it's make sense to study for SAT in August before Junior year so you can do well on PSAT and just generally have it done.

Anyway, those two schools are within reach.

What is class rank? As someone who has been looking for every data point possible for Georgetown, it looks like top 5% is absolutely necessary without a hook. You may not be one of them, but I wish I had a penny for every parent who thinks a 1560 is going to save a GPA that is not truly at the very top and with tons of rigor. I've seen it time and time again

It's a private school that doesn't rank. It also has 20+ admits a year, far more than top 5% so I suspect this is a lot about what GU thinks of your high school. Georgetown is one of those schools that has a straight line for GPA (from our school anyway) and he's over it with a lot of room. Williams is a harder call - their naviance is a bit all over the map. But they have a "type" - judging from the kids who have gotten in the past from our school - and I think my kid matches that type.

That's what the schools tell you to avoid the question but your high school counselor knows and most likely your own kid knows. It's the girst thing readers for colleges assess by using the school profile and figuring out your kid's rank through GPA, no of AP courses taken, which AP courses, tescher's comments, etc. Takes a two minutes at most.

This is going to make your head explode: it's a private school that doesn't rank, that doesn't weigh any grades, and offers no AP courses. No kid has a 4.0 and yet, 20% of the class gets into HYPSM. Also, kids with 3.8 GPA get into Georgetown about 80% of the time.

I'm not saying I don't have information. I have a plenty. I'm saying the school doesn't rank.

Why would my head explode? I went to a very top and T3 law school and know Williams well (and HYPS). My kid was top kid in their private, undergrad, dual degrees at Oxford now applying to T7 law schools. I specialize in higher ed law. I was trying to help you understand that the kid's rank is always a known factor but you're too defensive to be worth my time.