Anonymous
10/19/2024 13:23
Subject: Important Update: US Soccer Birth Year Change
Anonymous wrote:It seems like this would only be a good thing for most players as individuals. It could be hard for teams that aren't used to a lot of change in personnel. Very club specific.
My question is where are the teams who stay together year after year with less than 25% change each year? I would love to see a team which my U15 ECNL daughter plays on stay intact for 3 straight years. Or just give me a 2nd year. Every single year, girls/families look for greener pastures, get dropped, outsiders come to practices 2 months before tryouts, etc.
My view is youth soccer is about individuals and do the best for your kid to learn how to play in a team environment where it's all individual play.
Anonymous
10/19/2024 13:00
Subject: Important Update: US Soccer Birth Year Change
Anonymous wrote:
Red herring....Argument does not stand. With the change to SY 8/1 cutoff, there is still a year involved-- so if you are redshirted and held back in school 1 year, 2 years, 3 years...it. does. not. matter. You can't game the system by red shirting your kid since they still align with a birth year --it's just the cut off is no longer 12/31 of X year, its 8/1 of X year.
Exactly. If someone does “redshirt”, that just means they fit the age range to be in that grade to begin with and just happened to start school early.
It's called a waiver and SY leagues over time will start providing them because it's just easier to do when there's a potential paying customer.
Just watch, 8/1 will get subverted because some schools start students before / after that date. Also private schools will cater to parents that want to redshirt their kid. They already exist for other sports.
Anonymous
10/18/2024 22:47
Subject: Important Update: US Soccer Birth Year Change
Red herring....Argument does not stand. With the change to SY 8/1 cutoff, there is still a year involved-- so if you are redshirted and held back in school 1 year, 2 years, 3 years...it. does. not. matter. You can't game the system by red shirting your kid since they still align with a birth year --it's just the cut off is no longer 12/31 of X year, its 8/1 of X year.
Exactly. If someone does “redshirt”, that just means they fit the age range to be in that grade to begin with and just happened to start school early.
Anonymous
10/18/2024 22:07
Subject: Important Update: US Soccer Birth Year Change
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:School year increases participation at the youngest ages, which increases the quantity and quality of players later. School year also eliminates trapped players in the MS/HS and HS/college transitions. It was a shortsighted switch to BY and it should be corrected. It will be a headache to correct, but it will be good for players (trapped players) and good for the system in the long run.
No it is not an issue. It is not worth the effort for few the “trapped” players. Go play rec.
Why are there so few trapped players? Oh, because they all drop out and stop playing.....
And there will still be trapped players with SY.
Since you are so knowledgeable please list all the school districts that begin the school year before 8/1.
Should I include the players who's parents purposefully redshirted them so they'd excel in SY based sports?
Red herring....Argument does not stand. With the change to SY 8/1 cutoff, there is still a year involved-- so if you are redshirted and held back in school 1 year, 2 years, 3 years...it. does. not. matter. You can't game the system by red shirting your kid since they still align with a birth year --it's just the cut off is no longer 12/31 of X year, its 8/1 of X year.
Anonymous
10/18/2024 17:46
Subject: Important Update: US Soccer Birth Year Change
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think SY is better for the sport to increase its popularity. It's less about trapped players and more about having kids playing with friends.
My pro-SY opinion was formed many years ago at about U10. Two of my daughter's best friends were on her teams in AYSO, also Fall birthdays. They were arguably two of the best players in our AYSO region, probably the same or slightly stronger than my daughter. My daughter started club soccer at that time, which was a rough transition joining much bigger girls from the grade above, most of whom had been doing club for two years. We tried to convince her AYSO friends/parents to join, but when they found out club was BY (AYSO was SY) they said the girls didn't want to play with girls from the class above as that didn't sound fun. Tried again every year, same answer. Fast forward to U12 as AYSO teams were dying, and they decide to tryout for club. By this point my daughter had worked from B team to A team, and her friends were really only shooting for B team knowing they could be years behind. Couldn't even make B team, so quit soccer for other sports. These two still are good athletes. One is small but insanely fast and can run forever. I'm sure they could have joined another club, but this was the closest one so they viewed it as this one or nothing even though it's an aggressive goal to make this club as a good rec player at U12. I see no reason, athletically, that those friends, especially the super fast one, wouldn't be as good as my daughter today if they had started club at the same time. And I know first-hand they didn't start club earlier because of the BY cutoff.
My older daughter didn't play past AYSO, but a friend of hers at school, who we are friends with as parents, also said she didn't transition from AYSO to club because she had a Fall birthday and didn't want to play with girls above at those ages. Best player in the league, for sure, in AYSO days. Better than the girl in that class with a Spring birthday who now years later looks headed for D1 soccer (from ECNL/NL). According to the girls, this girl is still today by a wide margin the fastest girl in the grade, and she's a lacrosse star. The club intake issue is real from what I've watched.
Funny, my kid has a Sept birthday and played AYSO for a couple of years. I was even coach for 2 seasons.
She asked to play club against better players. She made the top team (with players a grade up in school) and has played on the top team ever since.
Maybe it's not playing with kids their grade in school that your kid chose to stop playing.
Ironically, since the whole BY vs SY debate coaches have been reaching out because they see that my kid can continue to play at the age their playing now or potentially down an age group if things change.
I think it's all stupid and a distracting waste of time. At the highest levels it doesn't matter if your kids a trapped player or not. Colleges will identify them.
For every kid like your daughter, there is absolutely an equally good player who doesn't try club because she doesn't want to play without her friends or is shy/scared of older girls. The US is socialized around SY. It absolutely makes BY-based activities less socially attractive to kids in Aug/Sep-Dec. You are probably right that for the very best players, they will find a way. But 95% of kids who play travel soccer will ultimately not care about college or pros. Travel soccer is for them too. The idea that good athletes should stick to only rec if they don't want to go pro -- especially in an area where everyone good at soccer leaves rec for travel -- is just dumb.
And you know this how?
Go outside dude you are a dork
People like this are the squeaky wheel clubs and leagues are trying to pacify. It will never happen. They'll just change to some other inane issue and complain about that.
Anonymous
10/18/2024 17:03
Subject: Important Update: US Soccer Birth Year Change
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think SY is better for the sport to increase its popularity. It's less about trapped players and more about having kids playing with friends.
My pro-SY opinion was formed many years ago at about U10. Two of my daughter's best friends were on her teams in AYSO, also Fall birthdays. They were arguably two of the best players in our AYSO region, probably the same or slightly stronger than my daughter. My daughter started club soccer at that time, which was a rough transition joining much bigger girls from the grade above, most of whom had been doing club for two years. We tried to convince her AYSO friends/parents to join, but when they found out club was BY (AYSO was SY) they said the girls didn't want to play with girls from the class above as that didn't sound fun. Tried again every year, same answer. Fast forward to U12 as AYSO teams were dying, and they decide to tryout for club. By this point my daughter had worked from B team to A team, and her friends were really only shooting for B team knowing they could be years behind. Couldn't even make B team, so quit soccer for other sports. These two still are good athletes. One is small but insanely fast and can run forever. I'm sure they could have joined another club, but this was the closest one so they viewed it as this one or nothing even though it's an aggressive goal to make this club as a good rec player at U12. I see no reason, athletically, that those friends, especially the super fast one, wouldn't be as good as my daughter today if they had started club at the same time. And I know first-hand they didn't start club earlier because of the BY cutoff.
My older daughter didn't play past AYSO, but a friend of hers at school, who we are friends with as parents, also said she didn't transition from AYSO to club because she had a Fall birthday and didn't want to play with girls above at those ages. Best player in the league, for sure, in AYSO days. Better than the girl in that class with a Spring birthday who now years later looks headed for D1 soccer (from ECNL/NL). According to the girls, this girl is still today by a wide margin the fastest girl in the grade, and she's a lacrosse star. The club intake issue is real from what I've watched.
Funny, my kid has a Sept birthday and played AYSO for a couple of years. I was even coach for 2 seasons.
She asked to play club against better players. She made the top team (with players a grade up in school) and has played on the top team ever since.
Maybe it's not playing with kids their grade in school that your kid chose to stop playing.
Ironically, since the whole BY vs SY debate coaches have been reaching out because they see that my kid can continue to play at the age their playing now or potentially down an age group if things change.
I think it's all stupid and a distracting waste of time. At the highest levels it doesn't matter if your kids a trapped player or not. Colleges will identify them.
For every kid like your daughter, there is absolutely an equally good player who doesn't try club because she doesn't want to play without her friends or is shy/scared of older girls. The US is socialized around SY. It absolutely makes BY-based activities less socially attractive to kids in Aug/Sep-Dec. You are probably right that for the very best players, they will find a way. But 95% of kids who play travel soccer will ultimately not care about college or pros. Travel soccer is for them too. The idea that good athletes should stick to only rec if they don't want to go pro -- especially in an area where everyone good at soccer leaves rec for travel -- is just dumb.
And you know this how?
Go outside dude you are a dork
Anonymous
10/18/2024 16:55
Subject: Important Update: US Soccer Birth Year Change
It seems like this would only be a good thing for most players as individuals. It could be hard for teams that aren't used to a lot of change in personnel. Very club specific.
Anonymous
10/18/2024 16:41
Subject: Important Update: US Soccer Birth Year Change
Anonymous wrote:Isn't it easier to go from BY to SY than it was to go SY to BY? Before, kids had to change teams. Now, if a kid is good enough to play up and wants to they still can.
This is a big if at good clubs. Realistically, we would expect about 20% of the teams to cycle as kids drop down. If Aug-Dec kids were good enough to play BY, they're obviously going to make the team one down. Most non-superstars would prefer to be big fish w/ more of their friends than smaller fish w/ fewer of their friends. I'd guess 2/3rds of kids switch voluntarily which will lead to more kids getting pushed down... so that eventually most ppl will play SY, except for a small handful who (similar to now) are standouts or exceptions for some other reason.
Anonymous
10/18/2024 16:41
Subject: Important Update: US Soccer Birth Year Change
Anonymous wrote:Isn't it easier to go from BY to SY than it was to go SY to BY? Before, kids had to change teams. Now, if a kid is good enough to play up and wants to they still can.
Yes, it should be less disruptive than the last change. But it could still be a big disruption, even if not as bad as the last switch.
Anonymous
10/18/2024 16:20
Subject: Important Update: US Soccer Birth Year Change
Isn't it easier to go from BY to SY than it was to go SY to BY? Before, kids had to change teams. Now, if a kid is good enough to play up and wants to they still can.
Anonymous
10/18/2024 15:26
Subject: Important Update: US Soccer Birth Year Change
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think SY is better for the sport to increase its popularity. It's less about trapped players and more about having kids playing with friends.
My pro-SY opinion was formed many years ago at about U10. Two of my daughter's best friends were on her teams in AYSO, also Fall birthdays. They were arguably two of the best players in our AYSO region, probably the same or slightly stronger than my daughter. My daughter started club soccer at that time, which was a rough transition joining much bigger girls from the grade above, most of whom had been doing club for two years. We tried to convince her AYSO friends/parents to join, but when they found out club was BY (AYSO was SY) they said the girls didn't want to play with girls from the class above as that didn't sound fun. Tried again every year, same answer. Fast forward to U12 as AYSO teams were dying, and they decide to tryout for club. By this point my daughter had worked from B team to A team, and her friends were really only shooting for B team knowing they could be years behind. Couldn't even make B team, so quit soccer for other sports. These two still are good athletes. One is small but insanely fast and can run forever. I'm sure they could have joined another club, but this was the closest one so they viewed it as this one or nothing even though it's an aggressive goal to make this club as a good rec player at U12. I see no reason, athletically, that those friends, especially the super fast one, wouldn't be as good as my daughter today if they had started club at the same time. And I know first-hand they didn't start club earlier because of the BY cutoff.
My older daughter didn't play past AYSO, but a friend of hers at school, who we are friends with as parents, also said she didn't transition from AYSO to club because she had a Fall birthday and didn't want to play with girls above at those ages. Best player in the league, for sure, in AYSO days. Better than the girl in that class with a Spring birthday who now years later looks headed for D1 soccer (from ECNL/NL). According to the girls, this girl is still today by a wide margin the fastest girl in the grade, and she's a lacrosse star. The club intake issue is real from what I've watched.
Funny, my kid has a Sept birthday and played AYSO for a couple of years. I was even coach for 2 seasons.
She asked to play club against better players. She made the top team (with players a grade up in school) and has played on the top team ever since.
Maybe it's not playing with kids their grade in school that your kid chose to stop playing.
Ironically, since the whole BY vs SY debate coaches have been reaching out because they see that my kid can continue to play at the age their playing now or potentially down an age group if things change.
I think it's all stupid and a distracting waste of time. At the highest levels it doesn't matter if your kids a trapped player or not. Colleges will identify them.
For every kid like your daughter, there is absolutely an equally good player who doesn't try club because she doesn't want to play without her friends or is shy/scared of older girls. The US is socialized around SY. It absolutely makes BY-based activities less socially attractive to kids in Aug/Sep-Dec. You are probably right that for the very best players, they will find a way. But 95% of kids who play travel soccer will ultimately not care about college or pros. Travel soccer is for them too. The idea that good athletes should stick to only rec if they don't want to go pro -- especially in an area where everyone good at soccer leaves rec for travel -- is just dumb.
Anonymous
10/18/2024 15:20
Subject: Important Update: US Soccer Birth Year Change
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:School year increases participation at the youngest ages, which increases the quantity and quality of players later. School year also eliminates trapped players in the MS/HS and HS/college transitions. It was a shortsighted switch to BY and it should be corrected. It will be a headache to correct, but it will be good for players (trapped players) and good for the system in the long run.
No it is not an issue. It is not worth the effort for few the “trapped” players. Go play rec.
Newsflash, for most kids in club soccer, it is rec. If I've learned anything from this thread, it's that almost 100% of the narcissistic aholes with zero empathy love BY. And, shockingly, their kids don't give a flying F about playing with friends nor can they understand the losers who do.
You sound like a narcissist trying to explain what a narcissist is.
Not a single person on 4 age groups at my club want to change.
This is coming from a trapped parent.
Every person I've talked to in the real world echoes what the podcast described: SY was the more logical cutoff, they think it was a mistake to change to BY, but they are unsure whether it's worth changing back or not because of the disruption.
100% agree. Parents at our club regret the change to BY primarily because it made soccer less fun by separating friends from rec days. Obviously some people who have trapped players are also personally affected. Split on whether it's worth going back now and especially if only some leagues do it.
Anonymous
10/18/2024 15:04
Subject: Important Update: US Soccer Birth Year Change
Anonymous wrote:Imagine yelling this to a 6 or 7 year old that wants to play with their friends and telling them their will be no friends in soccer, "And this wholes playing with friends thing is ridiculous. What happens when you go to college? You get to play with friends there to?"Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:That other thread is a toxic dumpster fire. It will get to 1,000 pages of that garbage before November 22nd.
For the sake of the travel soccer kids out there, I hope the Aug. 1 - July 31 change goes through - it makes sense. Kids want to play with their friends and classmates. Under the current system, the "ber" months have to decide if they are going to play a grade older, and this does deter kids from playing travel soccer every year.
I have a U14 who would not be affected by a change, she plays with her grade and has had a fabulous "career" over the years, deepening the bonds with her friends and classmates. If she were one a "ber" baby, she wouldn't be playing travel, and it saddens me to think of all the memories she wouldn't have had. Soccer has been a great part of her childhood.
On the other hand, I have a U12 who is a "ber" baby, has been playing with the older kids since he was in 2nd grade. It's ok, but he doesn't have the same connections with his teammates that she does. He certainly has a great time at recess when he gets to play with his friends on the U11 team. He sooo wishes he could play on their team. I do hope this change happens for the travel soccer "bers" out there.
As for the drama with the club teams, from that other thread it sounds like they are going to struggle to fill teams, teams will be filled with benchwarmers, coaches and directors are going to be thrown into chaos, teams are going to fail, and bankruptcies are eminent. Wow, the gates of hell have been opened, what is soccer thinking?
In all seriousness, clubs will go on filling teams and taking money in. The system won't collapse. I feel bad for the coaches and club directors that have to listen to this drama.
And now you are here trying to spit your talking points to a different crowd.
Just stop spewing shit and wait until it’s voted on.
It is going to cause chaos. Short term yes, but the chaos will bring some programs down.
And this wholes playing with friends thing is ridiculous. What happens when they go to college? They get to play with friends there to? Cut the crap already and let it play out.
Silly argument - the college "playing with friends" piece. I was the OP on this. To be clear, I've never posted on a forum before and I'm not making the rounds "spewing s*it".
The "chaos" will be short term, and we can all do this. (Well, most of us can.)
Anonymous
10/18/2024 14:50
Subject: Important Update: US Soccer Birth Year Change
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:School year increases participation at the youngest ages, which increases the quantity and quality of players later. School year also eliminates trapped players in the MS/HS and HS/college transitions. It was a shortsighted switch to BY and it should be corrected. It will be a headache to correct, but it will be good for players (trapped players) and good for the system in the long run.
I understand why folks would want this change for social reasons / convenience, but it will not be good for "the system" in the long run, if what is good for the system is creating high quality players that can compete internationally.
But, I don't know that that should be goal. It might be the most realistic option that soccer in this country remains a second tier sport in terms of quality of players and popularity. Making the ties between club soccer and high school and college stronger will certainly make that the reality. If the goal is to ascend into the top tier of international soccer there need to be more and better professional academies where soccer is not seen as a thing to do with friends in high school and/or the goal is higher than just playing in college.
Having MORE kids playing at the youngest ages means more kids developing, more kids to choose from at the elite level. You do lose the relative age effect benefit for the Jan-Mar kids, as they would be in the middle of the age group in SY - but if they are truly elite then they can always play up instead of just pounding on younger kids.
The international level kids are such a tiny percentage and I would say that having a larger player pool to develop and less attrition would make up for some lost RAE for the Jan-Mar kids. And eliminate the stupid trapped player stuff. No point is screwing 40% of the kids so that 0.00001% can be slightly better maybe by being oldest from the beginning.
Anonymous
10/18/2024 14:01
Subject: Important Update: US Soccer Birth Year Change
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:School year increases participation at the youngest ages, which increases the quantity and quality of players later. School year also eliminates trapped players in the MS/HS and HS/college transitions. It was a shortsighted switch to BY and it should be corrected. It will be a headache to correct, but it will be good for players (trapped players) and good for the system in the long run.
No it is not an issue. It is not worth the effort for few the “trapped” players. Go play rec.
Newsflash, for most kids in club soccer, it is rec. If I've learned anything from this thread, it's that almost 100% of the narcissistic aholes with zero empathy love BY. And, shockingly, their kids don't give a flying F about playing with friends nor can they understand the losers who do.
You sound like a narcissist trying to explain what a narcissist is.
Not a single person on 4 age groups at my club want to change.
This is coming from a trapped parent.
Every person I've talked to in the real world echoes what the podcast described: SY was the more logical cutoff, they think it was a mistake to change to BY, but they are unsure whether it's worth changing back or not because of the disruption.
Everyone I talk to in the real world says BY is and was the way to go back in 2018.
Who do you hang out with? My kids club is MLSN, EA, GA. DPL, SOCAL and rec teams. (West Coast)
ECNL and E64. I know one MLSN parent, outside of my soccer circle, who does think BY was right for MLSN but everyone else should be SY.
I’m ok and prefer for everyone to change and MLSNext and hopefully a girls equivalent stick to SY. I like the idea of a separate path from those who play soccer for fun or whose final goal is college, from those who care about real development and pro or top d1 programs.
Be careful what you wish for.
On the boys side colleges almost always recruit MLSN players over ECNL.
Why would you want to play in a league that only caters to college recruiters when all the college recruiters prefer players from the "pro" development league?
I’m PP. I don’t. My DS is in MLSNext and I prefer the kids in that league to have the similar mindset of pro or high level D1.
Yea MLSN coaches and leadership aren't keen on players going to colleges either because they miss out on the transfer fees.
But now that colleges are paying players how long do you think it will be before they start paying transfer fees.
