Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My theory is that as wealth inequality increases, so does outside tutoring, “enrichment”, private coaching, college consultants among parents with the means to pay. I grew up in Asia where all my friends had hours of tutoring on top of private school educations to make us more competitive for the limited spots in top universities. It’s interesting to see it as a more widespread phenomenon here now - but mostly in wealthy, urban areas where the perceived competition is greater.

I think this is driven by the immigrant culture more than wealth inequality. I am an immigrant myself, and I am surprised how blaise most non-immigrant families are about academic achievement. The only exception is sports.

The bolded is a front for many you realize. It's long been considered declasse in America to care too much about academics outwardly. You have to look like you're achieving without trying.

Why it's OK to show you are trying on athletics confuses me. Or the arts for that matter. It's OK to spend hours and hours practicing an instrument. It's not OK to mention your math tutor.

No, it's not a front. They are not great at music, either - non-immigrant parents have very high tolerance for poor musicianship.

I am not talking about the parents are telling me - I am talking about what my kids are telling me about what students are struggling with in classes. It goes almost without saying that highest academic performers are going to have an "ethnic" angle.

Amy Chua has entered the chat.

You’re only noticing what bolsters your belief that you’re the best ethnicity ever? MY kids are telling me about the kids who are struggling, too, and they are not just the white American kids that you seem hellbent on deriding. Being Asian and an immigrant doesn’t automatically make you smart or hard working or good at music. And I say that as an Asian person and an immigrant.

I am not Asian. It is true that many kids of different ethnicities are struggling, but it also true that, at the very top, there are few white kids and the few that are there typically have at least one immigrant parent. Look at any orchestra, look at any winning academic team... Increasingly, even sports. I mean even kids are noticing it. My then 8 year old went to an audition some time ago and described it as "an Asian overload".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My theory is that as wealth inequality increases, so does outside tutoring, “enrichment”, private coaching, college consultants among parents with the means to pay. I grew up in Asia where all my friends had hours of tutoring on top of private school educations to make us more competitive for the limited spots in top universities. It’s interesting to see it as a more widespread phenomenon here now - but mostly in wealthy, urban areas where the perceived competition is greater.

I think this is driven by the immigrant culture more than wealth inequality. I am an immigrant myself, and I am surprised how blaise most non-immigrant families are about academic achievement. The only exception is sports.

The bolded is a front for many you realize. It's long been considered declasse in America to care too much about academics outwardly. You have to look like you're achieving without trying.

Why it's OK to show you are trying on athletics confuses me. Or the arts for that matter. It's OK to spend hours and hours practicing an instrument. It's not OK to mention your math tutor.

No, it's not a front. They are not great at music, either - non-immigrant parents have very high tolerance for poor musicianship.

I am not talking about the parents are telling me - I am talking about what my kids are telling me about what students are struggling with in classes. It goes almost without saying that highest academic performers are going to have an "ethnic" angle.

Amy Chua has entered the chat.

You’re only noticing what bolsters your belief that you’re the best ethnicity ever? MY kids are telling me about the kids who are struggling, too, and they are not just the white American kids that you seem hellbent on deriding. Being Asian and an immigrant doesn’t automatically make you smart or hard working or good at music. And I say that as an Asian person and an immigrant.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My theory is that as wealth inequality increases, so does outside tutoring, “enrichment”, private coaching, college consultants among parents with the means to pay. I grew up in Asia where all my friends had hours of tutoring on top of private school educations to make us more competitive for the limited spots in top universities. It’s interesting to see it as a more widespread phenomenon here now - but mostly in wealthy, urban areas where the perceived competition is greater.

I think this is driven by the immigrant culture more than wealth inequality. I am an immigrant myself, and I am surprised how blaise most non-immigrant families are about academic achievement. The only exception is sports.

The bolded is a front for many you realize. It's long been considered declasse in America to care too much about academics outwardly. You have to look like you're achieving without trying.

Why it's OK to show you are trying on athletics confuses me. Or the arts for that matter. It's OK to spend hours and hours practicing an instrument. It's not OK to mention your math tutor.

No, it's not a front. They are not great at music, either - non-immigrant parents have very high tolerance for poor musicianship.

I am not talking about the parents are telling me - I am talking about what my kids are telling me about what students are struggling with in classes. It goes almost without saying that highest academic performers are going to have an "ethnic" angle.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My theory is that as wealth inequality increases, so does outside tutoring, “enrichment”, private coaching, college consultants among parents with the means to pay. I grew up in Asia where all my friends had hours of tutoring on top of private school educations to make us more competitive for the limited spots in top universities. It’s interesting to see it as a more widespread phenomenon here now - but mostly in wealthy, urban areas where the perceived competition is greater.

I think this is driven by the immigrant culture more than wealth inequality. I am an immigrant myself, and I am surprised how blaise most non-immigrant families are about academic achievement. The only exception is sports.

The bolded is a front for many you realize. It's long been considered declasse in America to care too much about academics outwardly. You have to look like you're achieving without trying.

Why it's OK to show you are trying on athletics confuses me. Or the arts for that matter. It's OK to spend hours and hours practicing an instrument. It's not OK to mention your math tutor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My theory is that as wealth inequality increases, so does outside tutoring, “enrichment”, private coaching, college consultants among parents with the means to pay. I grew up in Asia where all my friends had hours of tutoring on top of private school educations to make us more competitive for the limited spots in top universities. It’s interesting to see it as a more widespread phenomenon here now - but mostly in wealthy, urban areas where the perceived competition is greater.

I think this is driven by the immigrant culture more than wealth inequality. I am an immigrant myself, and I am surprised how blaise most non-immigrant families are about academic achievement. The only exception is sports.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some of the tutoring is parents outsourcing things parents used to do themselves. In this area, there is more money than time so it becomes an option.

If parents are doing workbooks or 1-on-1 lessons with their kids at home to get ahead, I would count that as outside enrichment. And there are still quite a few doing that. All the self-paced Beast Academy and AoPS products would not be selling like hot cakes if there were not tons of parents out there still willing to sit their kids down at the kitchen table and teach them some deeper math. Same with all the other school subjects.

I’m in a Beast Academy Facebook group and actually a lot of the parents posting are homeschool parents.

Anonymous wrote:My theory is that as wealth inequality increases, so does outside tutoring, “enrichment”, private coaching, college consultants among parents with the means to pay. I grew up in Asia where all my friends had hours of tutoring on top of private school educations to make us more competitive for the limited spots in top universities. It’s interesting to see it as a more widespread phenomenon here now - but mostly in wealthy, urban areas where the perceived competition is greater.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never seen someone keep it a secret- almost everyone I know (and I talk to a lot of parents) has their kid do some kind of academic enrichment or tutoring. It’s just part of the culture here combined with the fact that everyone is looking to accelerate their kids (chapter books in kindergarten, algebra in 6th grade, DE classes in high school). No matter how smart your child is they can’t do that without a lot of outside help.

The more interesting question is why are we in such a rush (my eldest was taking math classes in HS that my engineer brother was taking in his Junior year of college). We’re all locked in a weird arms race.

Is that because the school sucks? Ours does algebra in sixth grade, for example. So why would we need outside help? Tutors are foreign to me and I’ve never heard of anyone doing kumon or similar so I’m just unaware of all of this.

Just to clarify if your child is taking algebra in 6th grade he is 4 years above grade level. He will take geometry in 7th and algebra 2 in eighth and pre calculus in 9. If he stays on that path he’ll be beyond multi-variable calculus (a class few schools offer). So either you go to a truely exceptional school or you are mistaken

Algebra in 6th grade is only 2 years ahead of standard school pacing since school algebra is usually for 8th graders. Some good school systems will let 5th graders take algebra. But most do not, hence all the 5th graders enrolled in AoPS and RSM.

There are not many 5th graders enrolled in algebra at RSM or AoPS. We tried both and there was not a single child on algebra 1 in fifth track. Not saying there aren’t any but it’s certainly not common.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never seen someone keep it a secret- almost everyone I know (and I talk to a lot of parents) has their kid do some kind of academic enrichment or tutoring. It’s just part of the culture here combined with the fact that everyone is looking to accelerate their kids (chapter books in kindergarten, algebra in 6th grade, DE classes in high school). No matter how smart your child is they can’t do that without a lot of outside help.

The more interesting question is why are we in such a rush (my eldest was taking math classes in HS that my engineer brother was taking in his Junior year of college). We’re all locked in a weird arms race.

Is that because the school sucks? Ours does algebra in sixth grade, for example. So why would we need outside help? Tutors are foreign to me and I’ve never heard of anyone doing kumon or similar so I’m just unaware of all of this.

Just to clarify if your child is taking algebra in 6th grade he is 4 years above grade level. He will take geometry in 7th and algebra 2 in eighth and pre calculus in 9. If he stays on that path he’ll be beyond multi-variable calculus (a class few schools offer). So either you go to a truely exceptional school or you are mistaken

Algebra in 6th grade is only 2 years ahead of standard school pacing since school algebra is usually for 8th graders. Some good school systems will let 5th graders take algebra. But most do not, hence all the 5th graders enrolled in AoPS and RSM.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never seen someone keep it a secret- almost everyone I know (and I talk to a lot of parents) has their kid do some kind of academic enrichment or tutoring. It’s just part of the culture here combined with the fact that everyone is looking to accelerate their kids (chapter books in kindergarten, algebra in 6th grade, DE classes in high school). No matter how smart your child is they can’t do that without a lot of outside help.

The more interesting question is why are we in such a rush (my eldest was taking math classes in HS that my engineer brother was taking in his Junior year of college). We’re all locked in a weird arms race.

Is that because the school sucks? Ours does algebra in sixth grade, for example. So why would we need outside help? Tutors are foreign to me and I’ve never heard of anyone doing kumon or similar so I’m just unaware of all of this.

Just to clarify if your child is taking algebra in 6th grade he is 4 years above grade level. He will take geometry in 7th and algebra 2 in eighth and pre calculus in 9. If he stays on that path he’ll be beyond multi-variable calculus (a class few schools offer). So either you go to a truely exceptional school or you are mistaken

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’ve never seen someone keep it a secret- almost everyone I know (and I talk to a lot of parents) has their kid do some kind of academic enrichment or tutoring. It’s just part of the culture here combined with the fact that everyone is looking to accelerate their kids (chapter books in kindergarten, algebra in 6th grade, DE classes in high school). No matter how smart your child is they can’t do that without a lot of outside help.

The more interesting question is why are we in such a rush (my eldest was taking math classes in HS that my engineer brother was taking in his Junior year of college). We’re all locked in a weird arms race.

No we aren’t. Those are some poorly educated parents if they think that pushing chapter books on 5 year olds makes any difference long term. Pushing math faster than necessary will guarantee that the slow but steady smart kids who followed the guidelines will be much more proficient than the ones who sped through the necessary basics.

I suspect you do not have older kids who are applying to college, internships or other competitive opportunities. Whether you like it or not your kids live in a competitive environment where opportunities from scholarships, top colleges, prestigious high schools to internships and sports teams are subject to fierce competition. I have never met a parent who seriously regrets doing too much. But I know a lot of parents who wish they had done more.

I do have older kids and middle school. We don’t need scholarships like a lot of people so there’s no worry there. I’m not worried about top colleges I’m hoping they find one that’s a right fit. As for sports I believe that just like IQ has some genetics involved so do sports. My family has a long history of successful athletes who even in today’s environment make varsity and college teams without private coaching or clubs.

I just wonder how many of you are trying to push your average athletic kids into top athletes. That’s a lot of stress. Same with trying to push a smart kid into academics years ahead of where he is. And there are plenty of parents who pushed too far and the outcome was disastrous.

Ok, so your kids are average and you seen no point in enriching them. Some people have exceptional kids and are looking to provide them with opportunities schools aren't giving them.

Realistically, exceptional kids must be an exception and therefore there must be necessarily very few of them.

Bright kids are not exceptional, they are just bright kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think some of the tutoring is parents outsourcing things parents used to do themselves. In this area, there is more money than time so it becomes an option.

If parents are doing workbooks or 1-on-1 lessons with their kids at home to get ahead, I would count that as outside enrichment. And there are still quite a few doing that. All the self-paced Beast Academy and AoPS products would not be selling like hot cakes if there were not tons of parents out there still willing to sit their kids down at the kitchen table and teach them some deeper math. Same with all the other school subjects.

I’m in a Beast Academy Facebook group and actually a lot of the parents posting are homeschool parents.