Anonymous wrote:I bet your students are miserable in your class too, OP. i’ve I’ve dealt with teachers like you, and it is so frustrating because whether you realize it or not parents and other adults around know perfectly well that you are jaded and don’t give 2 shits. Do yourself and these kids a favor and be creative find yourself something else to do for income. I’ve seen teachers leaving open up their own consulting company or run a tutoring company. Yes, it will require energy and a positive attitude to figure out what will click for you and you might be surprised you might make a heck of a lot more money than what you’re making now but if you don’t take a step, this is the legacy you are leaving. One teacher I know who wasn’t a very good teacher opened up a learning center - she started it part time and it’s wildly successful now, she’s great at marketing. Leave. Do it.

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I work in the summer and the weeks I’m not working, I don’t get paid. It’s like everyone else’s annual leave but other jobs get paid year round.

No, it's not like "everyone else's annual leave." I don't get 8 - 10 weeks of annual leave and I certainly couldn't take it all in one stretch and I couldn't get a second job to pay me while I did.

If you want to quit, quit. Or make a plan to quit at the end of the school year and start working toward that. Stop whining. Take ownership of your decisions.

+1

Also, MCP teachers have the option to spread out their paychecks over the course of the full year.

Not yet. That option has never available to MCPS teachers. We're being told it's coming and will be effective July 2025 for those who opt in. The previous option was a limited "summer pay" through a Mo Co Credit Union.

What was wrong with the existing program?

https://prod.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/ersc/employees/pay/summer-pay/

You have to sign up with a credit union. MCPS does not do this. No one does this.

If no one uses the existing program, why do you think anyone will use the new program?

Because it will be through the MCPS payroll system and we don’t have to send our money anywhere else. Why would we do that? Most just save money for the summer through our own personal bank.

In that case, I'm still confused why you think you need one through the MCPS payroll system instead of just saving in your own bank account.

Oh my goodness. Do you even work for MCPS? Some people maybe aren’t as disciplined. Maybe it’s easier for them who cares? It’ll be nice to finally have the option To do this via our employer instead of some random third-party they picked to withhold summer pay.

We start planning for our summer finances at the beginning of each school and it is still tough come October, when we finally get consistent pay every two weeks. The years prior to the one week of "accelerated" pay nearly broke us every year (two MCPS teachers) because life happens. The MCPS pay schedule for teachers has always been hard at the start of the school year, especially when we have to wait three weeks between the first full check and the second full check. There's no reason not to have a year long pay option through our employer. Unless, of course, the money for teachers just sits in an interest earning account until October when pay for teachers actually resumes every two weeks...but MCPS wouldn't do that, would they?

And these are the people teaching are kids...

If your pay were spread out over 12 months, then a portion of your pay would be delayed during the school year until the summer. You could put some aside in an interest-bearing account, but perhaps that's too complicated for you. Are you an English teacher? Elementary?

Right?

"Some people aren't as disciplined."

Crazy.

Once again,
I don’t tolerate nonsense. I will call it out in my classroom and on this thread.

You clearly do not understand the challenges teachers face, and it’s usually best not to arrogantly comment from a place of ignorance.

I do understand the PP’s point about discipline. We have many teachers who live paycheck to paycheck because they are single earners living in an expensive area. When that’s your lifestyle, it’s hard to hold back pay for summers. I understand this challenge, and seeing that I’m not rude, I’m not going to mock or demean people in this situation.

Perhaps you should follow my lead.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I bet your students are miserable in your class too, OP. i’ve I’ve dealt with teachers like you, and it is so frustrating because whether you realize it or not parents and other adults around know perfectly well that you are jaded and don’t give 2 shits. Do yourself and these kids a favor and be creative find yourself something else to do for income. I’ve seen teachers leaving open up their own consulting company or run a tutoring company. Yes, it will require energy and a positive attitude to figure out what will click for you and you might be surprised you might make a heck of a lot more money than what you’re making now but if you don’t take a step, this is the legacy you are leaving. One teacher I know who wasn’t a very good teacher opened up a learning center - she started it part time and it’s wildly successful now, she’s great at marketing. Leave. Do it.

I’m going to suggest something different. Instead of telling miserable teachers to leave, let’s make the profession less miserable.

Most teachers are miserable. Walk into classrooms at the end of the day to witness the absolute exhaustion. And when Monday comes, so many teachers are still tired because they worked a lot over the weekend just to catch up.

So you can tell OP to leave, but then you’ll have to tell so many others to leave. And students see how overworked teachers are, and they regularly say they want easier jobs.

So telling teachers to leave will kill education in this country. Why can’t we just accept that this job isn’t sustainable and then make changes to fix it. More planning time. Fewer students. Higher pay, or at least more pay for the dozens of extra duties teachers take on. More support from admin instead of more work from admin.

This isn’t hard to imagine, and if people actually cared, it wouldn’t be hard to put in place.

Anonymous wrote:I bet your students are miserable in your class too, OP. i’ve I’ve dealt with teachers like you, and it is so frustrating because whether you realize it or not parents and other adults around know perfectly well that you are jaded and don’t give 2 shits. Do yourself and these kids a favor and be creative find yourself something else to do for income. I’ve seen teachers leaving open up their own consulting company or run a tutoring company. Yes, it will require energy and a positive attitude to figure out what will click for you and you might be surprised you might make a heck of a lot more money than what you’re making now but if you don’t take a step, this is the legacy you are leaving. One teacher I know who wasn’t a very good teacher opened up a learning center - she started it part time and it’s wildly successful now, she’s great at marketing. Leave. Do it.

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Anonymous wrote:

I work in the summer and the weeks I’m not working, I don’t get paid. It’s like everyone else’s annual leave but other jobs get paid year round.

No, it's not like "everyone else's annual leave." I don't get 8 - 10 weeks of annual leave and I certainly couldn't take it all in one stretch and I couldn't get a second job to pay me while I did.

If you want to quit, quit. Or make a plan to quit at the end of the school year and start working toward that. Stop whining. Take ownership of your decisions.

+1

Also, MCP teachers have the option to spread out their paychecks over the course of the full year.

Not yet. That option has never available to MCPS teachers. We're being told it's coming and will be effective July 2025 for those who opt in. The previous option was a limited "summer pay" through a Mo Co Credit Union.

What was wrong with the existing program?

https://prod.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/ersc/employees/pay/summer-pay/

You have to sign up with a credit union. MCPS does not do this. No one does this.

If no one uses the existing program, why do you think anyone will use the new program?

Because it will be through the MCPS payroll system and we don’t have to send our money anywhere else. Why would we do that? Most just save money for the summer through our own personal bank.

In that case, I'm still confused why you think you need one through the MCPS payroll system instead of just saving in your own bank account.

Oh my goodness. Do you even work for MCPS? Some people maybe aren’t as disciplined. Maybe it’s easier for them who cares? It’ll be nice to finally have the option To do this via our employer instead of some random third-party they picked to withhold summer pay.

We start planning for our summer finances at the beginning of each school and it is still tough come October, when we finally get consistent pay every two weeks. The years prior to the one week of "accelerated" pay nearly broke us every year (two MCPS teachers) because life happens. The MCPS pay schedule for teachers has always been hard at the start of the school year, especially when we have to wait three weeks between the first full check and the second full check. There's no reason not to have a year long pay option through our employer. Unless, of course, the money for teachers just sits in an interest earning account until October when pay for teachers actually resumes every two weeks...but MCPS wouldn't do that, would they?

And these are the people teaching are kids...

If your pay were spread out over 12 months, then a portion of your pay would be delayed during the school year until the summer. You could put some aside in an interest-bearing account, but perhaps that's too complicated for you. Are you an English teacher? Elementary?

Right?

"Some people aren't as disciplined."

Crazy.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I work in the summer and the weeks I’m not working, I don’t get paid. It’s like everyone else’s annual leave but other jobs get paid year round.

No, it's not like "everyone else's annual leave." I don't get 8 - 10 weeks of annual leave and I certainly couldn't take it all in one stretch and I couldn't get a second job to pay me while I did.

If you want to quit, quit. Or make a plan to quit at the end of the school year and start working toward that. Stop whining. Take ownership of your decisions.

+1

Also, MCP teachers have the option to spread out their paychecks over the course of the full year.

Not yet. That option has never available to MCPS teachers. We're being told it's coming and will be effective July 2025 for those who opt in. The previous option was a limited "summer pay" through a Mo Co Credit Union.

What was wrong with the existing program?

https://prod.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/ersc/employees/pay/summer-pay/

You have to sign up with a credit union. MCPS does not do this. No one does this.

If no one uses the existing program, why do you think anyone will use the new program?

Because it will be through the MCPS payroll system and we don’t have to send our money anywhere else. Why would we do that? Most just save money for the summer through our own personal bank.

In that case, I'm still confused why you think you need one through the MCPS payroll system instead of just saving in your own bank account.

Oh my goodness. Do you even work for MCPS? Some people maybe aren’t as disciplined. Maybe it’s easier for them who cares? It’ll be nice to finally have the option To do this via our employer instead of some random third-party they picked to withhold summer pay.

We start planning for our summer finances at the beginning of each school and it is still tough come October, when we finally get consistent pay every two weeks. The years prior to the one week of "accelerated" pay nearly broke us every year (two MCPS teachers) because life happens. The MCPS pay schedule for teachers has always been hard at the start of the school year, especially when we have to wait three weeks between the first full check and the second full check. There's no reason not to have a year long pay option through our employer. Unless, of course, the money for teachers just sits in an interest earning account until October when pay for teachers actually resumes every two weeks...but MCPS wouldn't do that, would they?

And these are the people teaching are kids...

If your pay were spread out over 12 months, then a portion of your pay would be delayed during the school year until the summer. You could put some aside in an interest-bearing account, but perhaps that's too complicated for you. Are you an English teacher? Elementary?

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Anonymous wrote:How many people with Master's degree only make $80-90k after 15 yrs?

A lot!
How many (excluding government workers) can retire before 60? Not many!

If they suck at their jobs maybe. I made $80k in 1998 with a Master's. You probably don't want to hear what I make now.

I bet you don't have an MEd.

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Anonymous wrote:How many people with Master's degree only make $80-90k after 15 yrs?

Are you kidding me? A large number of government employees and people at non-profits.

Also, don't compare a MEd to a MS in a STEM program.

Working a cushy non-profit job is not comparable to most teaching jobs.

That's going to depend on the non-profit.

But the discussion here isn't focused on the hours or workplace conditions. It has been focused on the claims made about pay. And teacher pay compares favorably to other liberal arts professions.

But you have to consider the working conditions. Teaching takes a major toll on people physically, emotionally, and mentally. You need to also consider the hours (nights and weekends), the stressful daily workload (no breaks), and the lack of resources (the long list of student supplies teachers pay for).

No, the pay isn’t enough.

A miserable teacher is still going to be miserable even if they make an extra $10-20k a year. The pay isn't the problem, so increasing pay isn't going to fix the problem.

+1 Based on the OP, the 10 month salary for a person with that education and experience is $111,000. That is well in line with the median (12 month) earnings for people with master's degrees in Montgomery County per the American Community Survey ( https://data.census.gov/table/ACSDT1Y2022.B20004?t=Earnings (Individuals):Educational Attainment&g=050XX00US24031 ), and that doesn't account for the pension benefits that OP has that most workers do not have (I truly don't care if you think the pension "sucks," that just makes you sound ignorant and entitled).

Knowing some outliers who make more than you do does not entitle you to higher pay.

In addition to the pension, teachers have excellent, Cadillac level health insurance.

NP who is also pretty miserable teaching but know the benefits are too good to give up. I’ll literally always be teaching until my kids are through college. It’s hard for anyone to hate their job but feel stuck.

That feeling is not limited to teachers.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I work in the summer and the weeks I’m not working, I don’t get paid. It’s like everyone else’s annual leave but other jobs get paid year round.

No, it's not like "everyone else's annual leave." I don't get 8 - 10 weeks of annual leave and I certainly couldn't take it all in one stretch and I couldn't get a second job to pay me while I did.

If you want to quit, quit. Or make a plan to quit at the end of the school year and start working toward that. Stop whining. Take ownership of your decisions.

+1

Also, MCP teachers have the option to spread out their paychecks over the course of the full year.

Not yet. That option has never available to MCPS teachers. We're being told it's coming and will be effective July 2025 for those who opt in. The previous option was a limited "summer pay" through a Mo Co Credit Union.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How many people with Master's degree only make $80-90k after 15 yrs?

Are you kidding me? A large number of government employees and people at non-profits.

Also, don't compare a MEd to a MS in a STEM program.

Working a cushy non-profit job is not comparable to most teaching jobs.

That's going to depend on the non-profit.

But the discussion here isn't focused on the hours or workplace conditions. It has been focused on the claims made about pay. And teacher pay compares favorably to other liberal arts professions.

But you have to consider the working conditions. Teaching takes a major toll on people physically, emotionally, and mentally. You need to also consider the hours (nights and weekends), the stressful daily workload (no breaks), and the lack of resources (the long list of student supplies teachers pay for).

No, the pay isn’t enough.

A miserable teacher is still going to be miserable even if they make an extra $10-20k a year. The pay isn't the problem, so increasing pay isn't going to fix the problem.

+1 Based on the OP, the 10 month salary for a person with that education and experience is $111,000. That is well in line with the median (12 month) earnings for people with master's degrees in Montgomery County per the American Community Survey ( https://data.census.gov/table/ACSDT1Y2022.B20004?t=Earnings (Individuals):Educational Attainment&g=050XX00US24031 ), and that doesn't account for the pension benefits that OP has that most workers do not have (I truly don't care if you think the pension "sucks," that just makes you sound ignorant and entitled).

Knowing some outliers who make more than you do does not entitle you to higher pay.

In addition to the pension, teachers have excellent, Cadillac level health insurance.

NP who is also pretty miserable teaching but know the benefits are too good to give up. I’ll literally always be teaching until my kids are through college. It’s hard for anyone to hate their job but feel stuck.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I work in the summer and the weeks I’m not working, I don’t get paid. It’s like everyone else’s annual leave but other jobs get paid year round.

No, it's not like "everyone else's annual leave." I don't get 8 - 10 weeks of annual leave and I certainly couldn't take it all in one stretch and I couldn't get a second job to pay me while I did.

If you want to quit, quit. Or make a plan to quit at the end of the school year and start working toward that. Stop whining. Take ownership of your decisions.

+1

Also, MCP teachers have the option to spread out their paychecks over the course of the full year.

Not yet. That option has never available to MCPS teachers. We're being told it's coming and will be effective July 2025 for those who opt in. The previous option was a limited "summer pay" through a Mo Co Credit Union.

What was wrong with the existing program?

https://prod.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/ersc/employees/pay/summer-pay/

You have to sign up with a credit union. MCPS does not do this. No one does this.

If no one uses the existing program, why do you think anyone will use the new program?

Because it will be through the MCPS payroll system and we don’t have to send our money anywhere else. Why would we do that? Most just save money for the summer through our own personal bank.

In that case, I'm still confused why you think you need one through the MCPS payroll system instead of just saving in your own bank account.

Oh my goodness. Do you even work for MCPS? Some people maybe aren’t as disciplined. Maybe it’s easier for them who cares? It’ll be nice to finally have the option To do this via our employer instead of some random third-party they picked to withhold summer pay.

We start planning for our summer finances at the beginning of each school and it is still tough come October, when we finally get consistent pay every two weeks. The years prior to the one week of "accelerated" pay nearly broke us every year (two MCPS teachers) because life happens. The MCPS pay schedule for teachers has always been hard at the start of the school year, especially when we have to wait three weeks between the first full check and the second full check. There's no reason not to have a year long pay option through our employer. Unless, of course, the money for teachers just sits in an interest earning account until October when pay for teachers actually resumes every two weeks...but MCPS wouldn't do that, would they?

And these are the people teaching are kids...

If your pay were spread out over 12 months, then a portion of your pay would be delayed during the school year until the summer. You could put some aside in an interest-bearing account, but perhaps that's too complicated for you. Are you an English teacher? Elementary?

DP, and one who doesn’t tolerate rudeness. Your insult above regarding English teachers and elementary teachers reflects poorly on you. If you can’t contribute positively, perhaps it’s best if you don’t contribute at all. (Yes, I’m a teacher. It sounds like something we have to tell children, doesn’t it?)

PP teacher, I understand your point. This poster most likely does not because he/she isn’t aware of teacher pay and how it works. I work in a system that does what you suggest, and I appreciate it. I don’t know why MCPS doesn’t do this. I’m sorry.

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Anonymous wrote:OP, this is not the place to post. Most on here are not teachers and have no sympathy for them. I advise you to post on places like fishbowl and reddit. Best of luck. I am a teacher and it is draining. More mentally than anything. The pay does not even matter to me.

I have tremendous sympathy for teachers. But why have teachers been unable to make changes using their unions? From what I understand, teachers are
-overwhelmed with IEP paperwork and meetings
-overwhelmed by behavioral issues and acting out
-overwhelmed by phone use in class
-overwhelmed by increasing demands by admin

I am sure i am missing many others. Why can’t the Union, which I thought was powerful (although maybe not) negotiate changes?? It sounds like teachers and many families are aligned, but state lawmakers have handcuffed schools with so many legal requirements?

DCPS took 3.5 years to negotiate our last contract which had minimal changes—it gave them a slight edge in filing grievances. The only other thing was salary increases. By the time it was approved, it was maybe 6 months before that just negotiated four year contract expired.

So we immediately began negotiating another one. It’s now over a year without a contract and DCPS wants to be able to do things like move highly effective teachers to any school DCPS wants them at, be able to change our working ours, change the length of the school year. These are all changes that would be removing language from the contract so it’s no longer a protection.

Our only option is to go without a contract basically indefinitely. We can’t strike, and DCPS won’t negotiate in good faith it seems. (They initially requested 5am weekday negotiating sessions with teachers.)

Sounds like the union isn't negotiating in good faith.

What suggests that? The post was about why unions can’t increase teacher protections. Granted this is DCPS, but was an example of how we get either minimal change or extreme change in favor of the employer in exchange for salary increases. If we don’t accept their demands, we don’t get raises. So how is the union not negotiating in good faith?

That WTU has been willfully breaking the law throughout the negotiation process.

Tell me more. I’ve heard nothing about this.

They've been breaking confidentiality laws and having ex-parte discussions with councilmembers over their demands.

It shouldn't be surprising that they have no respect for the law. This is the same union that waa organizing an illegal strike a few years ago.

There’s no laws requiring confidentiality at the bargaining table and they should be keeping y council members up to date about the progress of negotiatiknn. That’s how democracy works. These aren’t “ex parte” communications because the council members are judges. I don’t think you understand how collective bargaining works.

You don't seem to. There are laws in the DC Code concerning the confidentiality of negotiations and the role of the DC council.

Are those good laws? Perhaps not. Few of us agree with every law. But we're still obligated to follow them.

That applies to the prohibition on strikes, which WTU ignored, too.

why are we discussing this on the MCPS forum? Please start another thread on the DCPS forum.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I work in the summer and the weeks I’m not working, I don’t get paid. It’s like everyone else’s annual leave but other jobs get paid year round.

No, it's not like "everyone else's annual leave." I don't get 8 - 10 weeks of annual leave and I certainly couldn't take it all in one stretch and I couldn't get a second job to pay me while I did.

If you want to quit, quit. Or make a plan to quit at the end of the school year and start working toward that. Stop whining. Take ownership of your decisions.

+1

Also, MCP teachers have the option to spread out their paychecks over the course of the full year.

Not yet. That option has never available to MCPS teachers. We're being told it's coming and will be effective July 2025 for those who opt in. The previous option was a limited "summer pay" through a Mo Co Credit Union.

What was wrong with the existing program?

https://prod.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/departments/ersc/employees/pay/summer-pay/

You have to sign up with a credit union. MCPS does not do this. No one does this.

If no one uses the existing program, why do you think anyone will use the new program?

Because it will be through the MCPS payroll system and we don’t have to send our money anywhere else. Why would we do that? Most just save money for the summer through our own personal bank.

In that case, I'm still confused why you think you need one through the MCPS payroll system instead of just saving in your own bank account.

Oh my goodness. Do you even work for MCPS? Some people maybe aren’t as disciplined. Maybe it’s easier for them who cares? It’ll be nice to finally have the option To do this via our employer instead of some random third-party they picked to withhold summer pay.

We start planning for our summer finances at the beginning of each school and it is still tough come October, when we finally get consistent pay every two weeks. The years prior to the one week of "accelerated" pay nearly broke us every year (two MCPS teachers) because life happens. The MCPS pay schedule for teachers has always been hard at the start of the school year, especially when we have to wait three weeks between the first full check and the second full check. There's no reason not to have a year long pay option through our employer. Unless, of course, the money for teachers just sits in an interest earning account until October when pay for teachers actually resumes every two weeks...but MCPS wouldn't do that, would they?

And these are the people teaching are kids...

If your pay were spread out over 12 months, then a portion of your pay would be delayed during the school year until the summer. You could put some aside in an interest-bearing account, but perhaps that's too complicated for you. Are you an English teacher? Elementary?