Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not teach grammar, spelling, and writing skills depending on the teacher. Only a few give feedback and help kids improve. You need to pay attention as a parent and help your kids.

Last year, my DD asked the teacher if she could provide feedback, and she said that the ways she does it is through the rubric. No individualized feedback. Not even a sentence that says "good job with X but needs work on Y"

While my kids lacked explicit instruction in grammar in elementary school, I know for a fact that the majority of my kids English and social studies teachers from middle school on provided feedback on written assignments. Some were more specific and helpful than others but it was rare to not see anything. I was actually annoyed my kids didn’t take the time to read it!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not teach grammar, spelling, and writing skills depending on the teacher. Only a few give feedback and help kids improve. You need to pay attention as a parent and help your kids.

Last year, my DD asked the teacher if she could provide feedback, and she said that the ways she does it is through the rubric. No individualized feedback. Not even a sentence that says "good job with X but needs work on Y"

Anonymous wrote:I wish mcps would move away from it's social justice, social emotional learning, anti-racism high horse and teach actusl academics. I've spent hundreds of hours tutoring my child to fill the immense gaps in her education. When I asked the elementary school to provide her with written feedback on her terrible writing they acted like I was out of my mind for asking for this..

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCPS does not teach grammar, spelling, and writing skills depending on the teacher. Only a few give feedback and help kids improve. You need to pay attention as a parent and help your kids.

Last year, my DD asked the teacher if she could provide feedback, and she said that the ways she does it is through the rubric. No individualized feedback. Not even a sentence that says "good job with X but needs work on Y"

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Two different problems being discussed here.

1. Grammar and spelling. Assuming no learning disabilities, that can be refined by reading and by holding to standards. Spelling tests don't improve spelling, and neither does "studying" vocabulary if you don't study prefixes, suffixes, infixes, and roots. Having a kid read what they wrote out loud and summarize it, then fix it, also helps, but it has to be done repeatedly over a long time.

2. Argumentative writing, which is essentially what most academic writing is: using evidence to support theses and sub-points. That will not usually be picked up or refined by reading because most kids don't read that kind of writing outside of assignments. But argumentative writing can be taught as a series of formulas on which you improvise and create as you become more fluid at it, hence the 5P essay (which should, however, be a late-elementary into MS thing, not a HS one).

Reading does not convert into writing. Practice does.

I went to private school. Students had a spelling/vocabulary text book that included grammar starting in 1st grade. And we had homework using that book every night. By 6th grade we had a formal grammar textbook and diagrammed sentences.

Additionally, we read literature…not the ridiculous benchmark nonsense. And we had writing assignments everyday.

Plus: they taught us how to memorize, study for tests, and research and draft lengthy reports.

FTR, private school kids aren’t special; anyone can learn if schools actually teach the proper skills.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When would they have time to provide feedback? 120+ students and one planning period per day. They have to prioritize planning so grading is done on their own time. They are required to use the rubric so that's what they use.

Well, they have to read the essay. They could add a sentence of feedback. It's really not asking that much. And to say you get 2.5/3 on this part of the rubric is not helpful - where did the student miss the mark? And when a student asks for feedback and is told no, the teacher is not performing his or her job at a basic level.

Seriously. When I was in public school in the 90s, I always got feedback on my writing. My teachers had the same number of kids in their classes as MCPS teachers do.

We need to stop making excuses or acting like teachers are dealing with situations that have never ever happened before.

I posted above. (I’m the teacher who transitioned to a private school.) I have nothing but respect for public school teachers. I’ve been there and I know how the job has changed since I started teaching in 2000. It’s easily 3-4 times harder now. Class sizes are up while planning time is down. Side duties and obligations are astronomically up. (And just because you see similar class sizes doesn’t mean much. Teachers now have MORE classes. An extra section means an extra 30 papers to grade.) Half of a teacher’s job is outside the classroom. You don’t see what they do, nor are you aware of how little time they have to do it.

There are teachers all over this region devoting full weekends to their jobs and still not catching up. You can say we are “making excuses”. No, we are just telling you how it is.

So what’s your solution? It’s absolutely clear MCPS isn’t producing students who are meeting standards for reading, writing, and math.

No county, including MCPS, is going to do what it needs to do.

English classes in high school need to be capped at the low 20s. Teachers need to be given extra planning and fewer extra duties so they have time AT work to provide feedback. They shouldn’t be expected to do it every Sat/Sun, which is what happens to the current teachers with heavy grading loads.

Curricula should be rewritten to emphasize the writing process, including revision exercises. (Frankly, practicing teachers should write it. I’ve been very unimpressed by the curricula purchased by the counties. Plus, teachers know their students and communities more than some distant company does.)

Bring back paper and pen. Not everything should be online. Technology has its time and place, of course, but it is far too often a crutch. Let students learn how to work (and draft) without it.

That’s great, but much of it is completely unrealistic, so really you’re telling us we need to just accept that our kids won’t learn to write without being taught at home and never ask the teachers to do anything different than what they’re doing now.

So what is YOUR solution? Because it seems to be to demand more from the very people we demand too much of already. Teaching is no longer sustainable. That’s why we have this shortage.

The solution is to change the structure of our schools. Teachers MUST be afforded time at work to complete work. And teachers, as the experts, should have more of a voice than for-profit curriculum companies. These are county-level changes, though, and hard to do.

So we will do what we always do: We’ll take the easy way out, blame teachers for not doing enough, and we’ll carry on.

I pulled my kid out. I’m done with all of it.

Okay. Then why are you on this thread complaining?

Because my kid should be able to receive a good public education in the richest country in the world.

Instead my taxes are going to some crap system and I’m getting nothing for it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When would they have time to provide feedback? 120+ students and one planning period per day. They have to prioritize planning so grading is done on their own time. They are required to use the rubric so that's what they use.

Well, they have to read the essay. They could add a sentence of feedback. It's really not asking that much. And to say you get 2.5/3 on this part of the rubric is not helpful - where did the student miss the mark? And when a student asks for feedback and is told no, the teacher is not performing his or her job at a basic level.

Seriously. When I was in public school in the 90s, I always got feedback on my writing. My teachers had the same number of kids in their classes as MCPS teachers do.

We need to stop making excuses or acting like teachers are dealing with situations that have never ever happened before.

I posted above. (I’m the teacher who transitioned to a private school.) I have nothing but respect for public school teachers. I’ve been there and I know how the job has changed since I started teaching in 2000. It’s easily 3-4 times harder now. Class sizes are up while planning time is down. Side duties and obligations are astronomically up. (And just because you see similar class sizes doesn’t mean much. Teachers now have MORE classes. An extra section means an extra 30 papers to grade.) Half of a teacher’s job is outside the classroom. You don’t see what they do, nor are you aware of how little time they have to do it.

There are teachers all over this region devoting full weekends to their jobs and still not catching up. You can say we are “making excuses”. No, we are just telling you how it is.

So what’s your solution? It’s absolutely clear MCPS isn’t producing students who are meeting standards for reading, writing, and math.

No county, including MCPS, is going to do what it needs to do.

English classes in high school need to be capped at the low 20s. Teachers need to be given extra planning and fewer extra duties so they have time AT work to provide feedback. They shouldn’t be expected to do it every Sat/Sun, which is what happens to the current teachers with heavy grading loads.

Curricula should be rewritten to emphasize the writing process, including revision exercises. (Frankly, practicing teachers should write it. I’ve been very unimpressed by the curricula purchased by the counties. Plus, teachers know their students and communities more than some distant company does.)

Bring back paper and pen. Not everything should be online. Technology has its time and place, of course, but it is far too often a crutch. Let students learn how to work (and draft) without it.

That’s great, but much of it is completely unrealistic, so really you’re telling us we need to just accept that our kids won’t learn to write without being taught at home and never ask the teachers to do anything different than what they’re doing now.

So what is YOUR solution? Because it seems to be to demand more from the very people we demand too much of already. Teaching is no longer sustainable. That’s why we have this shortage.

The solution is to change the structure of our schools. Teachers MUST be afforded time at work to complete work. And teachers, as the experts, should have more of a voice than for-profit curriculum companies. These are county-level changes, though, and hard to do.

So we will do what we always do: We’ll take the easy way out, blame teachers for not doing enough, and we’ll carry on.

I pulled my kid out. I’m done with all of it.

Okay. Then why are you on this thread complaining?

Anonymous wrote:AP Lang and AP Lit are the English classes where students are held to higher standards of writing. Unfortunately they don't come until 11th and 12 th grades.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When would they have time to provide feedback? 120+ students and one planning period per day. They have to prioritize planning so grading is done on their own time. They are required to use the rubric so that's what they use.

Well, they have to read the essay. They could add a sentence of feedback. It's really not asking that much. And to say you get 2.5/3 on this part of the rubric is not helpful - where did the student miss the mark? And when a student asks for feedback and is told no, the teacher is not performing his or her job at a basic level.

Seriously. When I was in public school in the 90s, I always got feedback on my writing. My teachers had the same number of kids in their classes as MCPS teachers do.

We need to stop making excuses or acting like teachers are dealing with situations that have never ever happened before.

I posted above. (I’m the teacher who transitioned to a private school.) I have nothing but respect for public school teachers. I’ve been there and I know how the job has changed since I started teaching in 2000. It’s easily 3-4 times harder now. Class sizes are up while planning time is down. Side duties and obligations are astronomically up. (And just because you see similar class sizes doesn’t mean much. Teachers now have MORE classes. An extra section means an extra 30 papers to grade.) Half of a teacher’s job is outside the classroom. You don’t see what they do, nor are you aware of how little time they have to do it.

There are teachers all over this region devoting full weekends to their jobs and still not catching up. You can say we are “making excuses”. No, we are just telling you how it is.

So what’s your solution? It’s absolutely clear MCPS isn’t producing students who are meeting standards for reading, writing, and math.

No county, including MCPS, is going to do what it needs to do.

English classes in high school need to be capped at the low 20s. Teachers need to be given extra planning and fewer extra duties so they have time AT work to provide feedback. They shouldn’t be expected to do it every Sat/Sun, which is what happens to the current teachers with heavy grading loads.

Curricula should be rewritten to emphasize the writing process, including revision exercises. (Frankly, practicing teachers should write it. I’ve been very unimpressed by the curricula purchased by the counties. Plus, teachers know their students and communities more than some distant company does.)

Bring back paper and pen. Not everything should be online. Technology has its time and place, of course, but it is far too often a crutch. Let students learn how to work (and draft) without it.

That’s great, but much of it is completely unrealistic, so really you’re telling us we need to just accept that our kids won’t learn to write without being taught at home and never ask the teachers to do anything different than what they’re doing now.

So what is YOUR solution? Because it seems to be to demand more from the very people we demand too much of already. Teaching is no longer sustainable. That’s why we have this shortage.

The solution is to change the structure of our schools. Teachers MUST be afforded time at work to complete work. And teachers, as the experts, should have more of a voice than for-profit curriculum companies. These are county-level changes, though, and hard to do.

So we will do what we always do: We’ll take the easy way out, blame teachers for not doing enough, and we’ll carry on.

I pulled my kid out. I’m done with all of it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are students even assigned to read entire books in ES and MS? My neighbor told me her kids have never been expected to read an entire book, only excerpts. WTH? Why?

I don’t think your neighbor knows what she’s talking about. In elementary school they may read excerpts, but kids definitely read whole books in middle school language classes.

While individual teachers might assign whole books, assigning excerpts from books is a common problem across MCPS in MS and HS.

They are now required to teach at least one novel study per quarter in secondary English classes in MCPS.

Our school does 2/quarter -- one whole-class novel and one in book circles that varies by reading level.

Oh boy! One novel study! How ever will the kids handle all of that.

By secondary do you mean MS or HS?

Both.

The fact that they’re only required to teach one book per quarter is utterly pathetic.

I don’t see the problem with one anchor text a quarter. So you teach The Odyssey as an anchor text. You throw in related texts, such as Atwood poetry or nonfiction about the ancient city of Troy. Students do related research to find criticism, and then write their own.

Easily enough content for a quarter.

that’s not how it was described. it was described as one book per quarter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:When would they have time to provide feedback? 120+ students and one planning period per day. They have to prioritize planning so grading is done on their own time. They are required to use the rubric so that's what they use.

Well, they have to read the essay. They could add a sentence of feedback. It's really not asking that much. And to say you get 2.5/3 on this part of the rubric is not helpful - where did the student miss the mark? And when a student asks for feedback and is told no, the teacher is not performing his or her job at a basic level.

Seriously. When I was in public school in the 90s, I always got feedback on my writing. My teachers had the same number of kids in their classes as MCPS teachers do.

We need to stop making excuses or acting like teachers are dealing with situations that have never ever happened before.

I posted above. (I’m the teacher who transitioned to a private school.) I have nothing but respect for public school teachers. I’ve been there and I know how the job has changed since I started teaching in 2000. It’s easily 3-4 times harder now. Class sizes are up while planning time is down. Side duties and obligations are astronomically up. (And just because you see similar class sizes doesn’t mean much. Teachers now have MORE classes. An extra section means an extra 30 papers to grade.) Half of a teacher’s job is outside the classroom. You don’t see what they do, nor are you aware of how little time they have to do it.

There are teachers all over this region devoting full weekends to their jobs and still not catching up. You can say we are “making excuses”. No, we are just telling you how it is.

So what’s your solution? It’s absolutely clear MCPS isn’t producing students who are meeting standards for reading, writing, and math.

No county, including MCPS, is going to do what it needs to do.

English classes in high school need to be capped at the low 20s. Teachers need to be given extra planning and fewer extra duties so they have time AT work to provide feedback. They shouldn’t be expected to do it every Sat/Sun, which is what happens to the current teachers with heavy grading loads.

Curricula should be rewritten to emphasize the writing process, including revision exercises. (Frankly, practicing teachers should write it. I’ve been very unimpressed by the curricula purchased by the counties. Plus, teachers know their students and communities more than some distant company does.)

Bring back paper and pen. Not everything should be online. Technology has its time and place, of course, but it is far too often a crutch. Let students learn how to work (and draft) without it.

That’s great, but much of it is completely unrealistic, so really you’re telling us we need to just accept that our kids won’t learn to write without being taught at home and never ask the teachers to do anything different than what they’re doing now.

So what is YOUR solution? Because it seems to be to demand more from the very people we demand too much of already. Teaching is no longer sustainable. That’s why we have this shortage.

The solution is to change the structure of our schools. Teachers MUST be afforded time at work to complete work. And teachers, as the experts, should have more of a voice than for-profit curriculum companies. These are county-level changes, though, and hard to do.

So we will do what we always do: We’ll take the easy way out, blame teachers for not doing enough, and we’ll carry on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are students even assigned to read entire books in ES and MS? My neighbor told me her kids have never been expected to read an entire book, only excerpts. WTH? Why?

I don’t think your neighbor knows what she’s talking about. In elementary school they may read excerpts, but kids definitely read whole books in middle school language classes.

While individual teachers might assign whole books, assigning excerpts from books is a common problem across MCPS in MS and HS.

They are now required to teach at least one novel study per quarter in secondary English classes in MCPS.

Our school does 2/quarter -- one whole-class novel and one in book circles that varies by reading level.

Oh boy! One novel study! How ever will the kids handle all of that.

By secondary do you mean MS or HS?

Both.

The fact that they’re only required to teach one book per quarter is utterly pathetic.

I don’t see the problem with one anchor text a quarter. So you teach The Odyssey as an anchor text. You throw in related texts, such as Atwood poetry or nonfiction about the ancient city of Troy. Students do related research to find criticism, and then write their own.

Easily enough content for a quarter.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Are students even assigned to read entire books in ES and MS? My neighbor told me her kids have never been expected to read an entire book, only excerpts. WTH? Why?

I don’t think your neighbor knows what she’s talking about. In elementary school they may read excerpts, but kids definitely read whole books in middle school language classes.

While individual teachers might assign whole books, assigning excerpts from books is a common problem across MCPS in MS and HS.

They are now required to teach at least one novel study per quarter in secondary English classes in MCPS.

Our school does 2/quarter -- one whole-class novel and one in book circles that varies by reading level.

Oh boy! One novel study! How ever will the kids handle all of that.

By secondary do you mean MS or HS?

Both.

The fact that they’re only required to teach one book per quarter is utterly pathetic.