Most people? I don’t think that’s true. Everyone I know, including myself, have loved raising kids.

Having kids swings between underrated and overrated from time to time. They can be an absolute joy if little to no physical, mental, relational, financial, accidental or circumstantial complications are involved.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dealing with kids and ageing parents has always been challenging, but modern American parenting, combined with modern American working culture, makes it all uniquely exhausting.

I found that the more I relaxed and didn’t get too involved in my kids’ lives, the better I was as a parent. Their problems are not my problems. I can provide advice and resources when called upon, but I shouldn’t feel their pains and joys too acutely. They are separate people. In the same way I should not impose too much of my burden of caring for elderly parents on them. I try to tell myself that the latter is a privilege too. It is hard, but it is beautiful too. Finding the right perspective is key.

+1

If the point of having kids is to maximize their SAT scores and college resumes, then the birthrate will continue to crater.

If the point of having kids is because humanity is good and we want to love them and make a family, maybe it will be higher, especially if connected to higher religious purpose.

But I'm not into forcing people to be religious or have children. I'm just saying that faith makes having kids worth it.

The point of having kids used to be that they made life easier, in both hunter-gatherer and agrarian cultures. Even into the 20th century kids were extra, unpaid farmhands and sometimes factory laborers in the west. In parts of the world they still are. I'm not knocking or criticizing this way of life, by the way. It has benefits the modern "make a perfect resume kid" doesn't have even for kids (well, perhaps except when they were factory laborers, that basically had no benefits). But families had lots of kids when lots of kids was good for the family as a whole.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t relate to your post, and frankly I don’t have any friends that I am close to who could either. Just not our experience or outlook at all. I think yours is a very minority view.

I think you’re so wrong and your friends just aren’t real with each other. If none of your friends can relate, I think you probably have your head in the sand.

Or I do know my friends, we talk about life with honesty, and this is their actual experience. Why is your experience and that of OP’s the reality, and not mine?

Np but probably your “holier than thou” tone.

A lot depends on how much disposable income you have (throw money at problems!) and if anyone has significant mental or physical health issues.

OP here. Thanks for the responses, everyone. I’m kind of shocked the discussion remained pretty civil! As for the person who said I might be depressed, well, that is probably true. I’m perimenopausal and about to be an empty nester with aging parents. So that feels about right…but half the women my age are in the same boat! It’s kind of hard to know how much is circumstance and how much is hormonal.

We can keep the discussion going but I think I’ve said all I had to say. It feels good to know that some people can relate. I’m pretty sure that even the most positive among you have had days when these kinds of thoughts have entered your mind.

I think ultimately, like someone said, hindsight is 20/20 so you don’t really know. And you don’t know what the future brings.

I’d really like to be a mom who could step back and not feel so involved and personally invested in my kid. It probably is healthier, and I would probably be in a less frustrated and anxious place right now if I could. But I was just never that kind of parent. But I’m trying to think of how to let go without feeling resentful and how to stop trying to solve my kid’s problems…basically how to be ok with them being gone, even knowing they may never be that loving little kid again (obviously not little but showing the love the way they used to).

My own mom always says she wouldn’t tolerate disrespect from her kids and would cut them off, and she has done that to me a few times. It’s a loving but very fraught relationship. But I could never bear it if my kid cut me out of their life, so I need to get ok with them just being how they are even if it’s not the relationship I imagined it would be.

I think it’s that kind of stuff that makes me look back and say….god…was it worth it? It is, of course, navel gazing, but that’s why I’m here blathering about it!

Have a good day! I’ll be NOT nagging my kid about packing up their clothes for college.

Sorry you feel that way but I’ve loved the whole ride. Now my kids are adults with children of their own and I’m loving it as well. I think what helped is that my husband has been a wonderful partner and father and the tone we set as a couple was very helpful in terms of how our children developed.

My kids are still young, elementary and middle school, but I started having similar thoughts as OP. Before having kids I only thought about the challenges of getting through the sleepless nights and breastfeeding vs formula etc. It seemed so big and important. Now that I am past those early years, I am starting to see that this is marathon and the early years were nothing compared to what’s yet to come. And I already feel burned out. And yes, I wonder what kind of relationship I will have with them once they are grown. I have a pretty good relationship with my parents, but my sibling doesn’t and I know it causes my parents a lot of pain.

Anonymous wrote:Dealing with kids and ageing parents has always been challenging, but modern American parenting, combined with modern American working culture, makes it all uniquely exhausting.

I found that the more I relaxed and didn’t get too involved in my kids’ lives, the better I was as a parent. Their problems are not my problems. I can provide advice and resources when called upon, but I shouldn’t feel their pains and joys too acutely. They are separate people. In the same way I should not impose too much of my burden of caring for elderly parents on them. I try to tell myself that the latter is a privilege too. It is hard, but it is beautiful too. Finding the right perspective is key.

+1

If the point of having kids is to maximize their SAT scores and college resumes, then the birthrate will continue to crater.

If the point of having kids is because humanity is good and we want to love them and make a family, maybe it will be higher, especially if connected to higher religious purpose.

But I'm not into forcing people to be religious or have children. I'm just saying that faith makes having kids worth it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see so many discussions about whether it’s worth having kids or not. I’m about to be an empty nester, and I’m also friends with some much younger people who are on the verge of having children. And I feel like when people talk about the pros and cons of children they always talk about the inconveniences and joys of the younger years.

But the reality is that those years go by quickly. And then you’re left being the parent to an adult—who you hope doesn’t hate you and you have a good relationship with. But god knows I know plenty of people who don’t have amazing relationships as adults with their parents.

I look at some of these younger people and I never say it but sometimes I really want to ask them to think if it’s worth it. Those early hard years. And then those magical good years in between when they think you’re the best in the world. But then the teenage years when there’s so much stress about their futures and you’re just an idiot half the time.

But then also beyond that. Being an almost 50 year old with 80 year old parents. Do I bring my mom joy? Half the time she’s mad at me for something or she pissed me off.

I don’t regret having my child. I love them. But I had absolutely NO idea what I was getting into. I could not think beyond those initial childhood years. But those years are nothing compared to all of the rest of the years you are a parent and managing and hoping to have a good relationship with an adult child. Sometimes I wonder—would I have done it if I’d known. But I know there was really no way to know. I’m not sure.

OP, I think you may be depressed.

What an obnoxious post. There is nothing in OP's posts to indicate she is suffering depression. A person can question the path of parenthood without being depressed or otherwise mentally ill. This is obnoxious thinking, to assume that people who eschew parenthood or question the commitment they made to parenthood are mentally ill.

+10000000000

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I see so many discussions about whether it’s worth having kids or not. I’m about to be an empty nester, and I’m also friends with some much younger people who are on the verge of having children. And I feel like when people talk about the pros and cons of children they always talk about the inconveniences and joys of the younger years.

But the reality is that those years go by quickly. And then you’re left being the parent to an adult—who you hope doesn’t hate you and you have a good relationship with. But god knows I know plenty of people who don’t have amazing relationships as adults with their parents.

I look at some of these younger people and I never say it but sometimes I really want to ask them to think if it’s worth it. Those early hard years. And then those magical good years in between when they think you’re the best in the world. But then the teenage years when there’s so much stress about their futures and you’re just an idiot half the time.

But then also beyond that. Being an almost 50 year old with 80 year old parents. Do I bring my mom joy? Half the time she’s mad at me for something or she pissed me off.

I don’t regret having my child. I love them. But I had absolutely NO idea what I was getting into. I could not think beyond those initial childhood years. But those years are nothing compared to all of the rest of the years you are a parent and managing and hoping to have a good relationship with an adult child. Sometimes I wonder—would I have done it if I’d known. But I know there was really no way to know. I’m not sure.

OP, I think you may be depressed.

What an obnoxious post. There is nothing in OP's posts to indicate she is suffering depression. A person can question the path of parenthood without being depressed or otherwise mentally ill. This is obnoxious thinking, to assume that people who eschew parenthood or question the commitment they made to parenthood are mentally ill.

Anonymous wrote:I see so many discussions about whether it’s worth having kids or not. I’m about to be an empty nester, and I’m also friends with some much younger people who are on the verge of having children. And I feel like when people talk about the pros and cons of children they always talk about the inconveniences and joys of the younger years.

But the reality is that those years go by quickly. And then you’re left being the parent to an adult—who you hope doesn’t hate you and you have a good relationship with. But god knows I know plenty of people who don’t have amazing relationships as adults with their parents.

I look at some of these younger people and I never say it but sometimes I really want to ask them to think if it’s worth it. Those early hard years. And then those magical good years in between when they think you’re the best in the world. But then the teenage years when there’s so much stress about their futures and you’re just an idiot half the time.

But then also beyond that. Being an almost 50 year old with 80 year old parents. Do I bring my mom joy? Half the time she’s mad at me for something or she pissed me off.

I don’t regret having my child. I love them. But I had absolutely NO idea what I was getting into. I could not think beyond those initial childhood years. But those years are nothing compared to all of the rest of the years you are a parent and managing and hoping to have a good relationship with an adult child. Sometimes I wonder—would I have done it if I’d known. But I know there was really no way to know. I’m not sure.

OP, I think you may be depressed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I can’t relate to your post, and frankly I don’t have any friends that I am close to who could either. Just not our experience or outlook at all. I think yours is a very minority view.

I think you’re so wrong and your friends just aren’t real with each other. If none of your friends can relate, I think you probably have your head in the sand.

Or I do know my friends, we talk about life with honesty, and this is their actual experience. Why is your experience and that of OP’s the reality, and not mine?

Anonymous wrote:Without kids, life is meaningless, and nothing is worse than that

Really? The Lord Christ had a meaningless life?

Dealing with kids and ageing parents has always been challenging, but modern American parenting, combined with modern American working culture, makes it all uniquely exhausting.

I found that the more I relaxed and didn’t get too involved in my kids’ lives, the better I was as a parent. Their problems are not my problems. I can provide advice and resources when called upon, but I shouldn’t feel their pains and joys too acutely. They are separate people. In the same way I should not impose too much of my burden of caring for elderly parents on them. I try to tell myself that the latter is a privilege too. It is hard, but it is beautiful too. Finding the right perspective is key.