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Anonymous wrote:It’s just the dc area. Move to the south or Midwest

THIS - or mountains. East Coast metro is the worst for rat race competitiveness.

If you’re speaking about sports, the DC area isn’t exactly known as a sports hub. It’s also not an area where a lot of pro athletes come from. The travel sports are similar to cheerleaders traveling to compete. It can be a fun activity for the whole family to involved in. But there might be a handful that can play in college, maybe 1-2%. Same with grades, 1% of students will get SATs greater than 1500.

So is it really competitive? You can’t give your child the genetics necessary to be a super athlete. He can only be the best he can be with what he has to work with. Same with academics. So students aren’t really competing against other students, they are just working on being the best that they can be. Parents need to be happy with that.

Anonymous wrote:People who lament about this are usually competitive themselves and mad that their kids aren’t top of the pile.

That may be true for some but I also think mostly the people talking about this are okay with their kids not being the very best. The fear is that increased competition for resources like education and jobs will mean that being simply okay (as opposed to exceptional) will mean a hard and difficult life.

Given the cost of higher education and the cost of housing these fears may not be unfounded. Look at the conversation on this thread that "grad school is the new college degree." The argument is that it doesn't matter where you go to college because grad school is what matters. That's fine for upper middle class and wealthy families who can support kids through grad school and help them avoid loans or pay them off quickly. It's terrible news for middle class kids who are already struggling to pay for undergrad and now face pressure to get graduate degrees. And the whole proposition is risky because if you borrow money for grad school on the premise that you will get a better paying job what happens if that job doesn't materialize.

I think this anxiety is especially pronounced in places like the DC area where it is genuinely hard to be middle class -- cost of living is very high and resources like quality schools and good extra-curricular opportunities for kids are also expensive. There are programs to help people afford housing and opportunities for kids but they are mostly not available to middle class families -- you need to have an HHI of 80k or less to get access to most of those programs unless you have a lot of kids.

This really is generally not about sour grapes from privileged parents who are mad their kids aren't winning all the accolades. There may be some of that but I think this is mostly just class anxiety and that it is pretty valid.

Anonymous wrote:Hot take. Maybe it's competitive for you and your kids because you simply rode the coattails of your ancestors and aren't that good at anything ...

+1000

stop living off your ancestors' accomplishment and sing for your own damn supper

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Anonymous wrote:Everything is so damn competitive now, and I don't know how people survive this world. It starts when someone is young with how competitive youth sports has become. It is extremely difficult to even make the JV team now. College admissions are more competitive and cutthroat than ever, and you have to be insanely lucky to get into a school like UVA, UMich, or UNC right now.

Even if you make it into a good college, the competition doesn't stop there. Most engineering, premed, and business clubs require applications and interviews to join. Greek life rejects most people who try to join. Getting research experience is extremely hard too.

And it is impossible to find a job now once you graduate.

How are kids supposed to survive now?

Greek life? Nobody in the real world cares about that.

Except the fraternity/sorority brothers/sisters that may hook you up with a sweet job. I think that's what OP is alluding.

Those days are also gone. There are idiots representing the fraternities that used to mean something. There are better ways to network. Technology has made a huge difference. No one should think a fraternity is filled with future leaders who will hand you a job.

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Anonymous wrote:As a father of a young boy, I think about this all the time. Things are so different from when I was a kid which wasn't even that long ago. You can't do rec league soccer and more it has to be travel league, summer camp signup started before the New Year, high school kids are doing charity trips to third world countries... This list just goes on and on...

You can do rec soccer. It is a choice. Most kids who do travel soccer will eventually quit and it serves very little purpose.

It’s really hard to find a rec soccer team after 6th grade.

I’m feeling this stress because my kid had a bad freshman year and even he got straight As the rest of HS, he probably won’t get into UMd or anything like a top 100 school. He had basically one bad month that ranked his second semester grades and it feels like there’s no recovery from it.

Not where I live in Fairfax county. Our local leagues have rec sports all the way thru 12th.

Rec leagues exist but many kids quit or specialize in a sport(s) around 7th grade. My son’s main sport is tennis and he played rec soccer all through elementary. He was very good and was on a great team. Half his team quit soccer to focus more on hockey or baseball or whatever else was more important. He ended up on a random rec team in 7th and it was a terrible experience. The kids were very unathletic or totally not committed as they would miss practice and games.

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Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy League college and I used to interview for the school, but I stopped wasting my time when no one I interviewed ever got in. At least from that, I knew since my kids’ births that elite college admissions was a total crapshoot.

Sports - my oldest is doing great in HS in no cut activities - marching band and crew. I think the important thing is to be a joiner and get involved in literally anything you can enjoy.

College - maybe we are thinking VT or Penn State is more likely than UVA. I think grad school is the new college. I think my kids will likely go to grad school and that will help.

Work - I am honestly not that impressed with the younger people at work these days. I still think there is still a place for people to succeed who are dependable, responsive, and who take initiative to do the hard work.

I have good older role models. My grandmother lived in the same small un-updated ranch house from 1960-2023. You do NOT need a McMansion to be happy. You need to use something like YNAB / Ramit Sethi and take responsibility for your own finances and live within your means.

I don't really understand this mentality. There are tons of underemployed grad school graduates with really massive student loan debt. There are plenty of VT graduates doing well as engineers or other STEM fields, or working for Accenture, etc. Same for Penn State.

I’ve said this to someone else on here before - but my engineer dad has a masters. My spouse is a teacher and gets paid more with a masters. Most of my peers are employed and have graduate degrees. It’s not imperative but I think can be helpful in most fields if you do it right. But you don’t have to agree with me!

If I am not mistaken, a teacher gets an automatic pay bump for having a graduate degree...so, if you become a teacher you would of course go do that. There are similar government jobs that work this way as well.

However, even your examples are a far cry from "grad school is the new college", and you just have anecdotes. To this day, most CEOs (over 50%) have nothing more than a BA/BS.

Some people value education. Others don’t. It is fine if you don’t. I personally think it is the easiest and fastest way to guarantee yourself a six figure income. I earned 200k+ out of grad school at age 27 and that 20 years ago.

That's a silly argument...law school isn't "education", it's vocational training...getting an MBA isn't "education", it's again vocational training and networking.

You even don't seem to value education as you described it as the "easiest and fastest way to guarantee yourself a six-figure income".

You sound dumb. I’m sure we don’t travel in the same circles.

You sound downright moronic. We probably don't because my circle includes CEOs, P/E principals, investment bank co-founders...just my little circle of successful folks without graduate degrees.

Right back at you. The investment bankers, PE, VC people we know mostly all have ivy mbas. I dont know what kind of crap IB cofounders you know.

The rich ones? You know you can’t win this game right, when the actual richest people in the country (vs your fictional friends) don’t have graduate degrees…and many don’t even have college degrees.

I don’t even know why I am wasting time with some random person on the internet. I’m very proud of my ivy degrees. DH had to work hard for his Ivy MD education. That is fine if you don’t value these but we do. My dad was a professor and has 4 degrees.

We are getting older and I don’t really care much about anything anymore. I don’t put pressure on our kids. I really don’t care about your rich friends or mine. My kids are smart and can compete in a highly competitive environment. Most people we socialize with went to grad school and my kids want to attend top colleges. It is fine if you didn’t or don’t want your kids to go to a top college and grad school.

Nobody said anything about not attending a top college…in fact it was the opposite. Attend an OK college…but don’t worry because it’s all about grad school.

I actually think a top college matters (maybe more so if you want to drop out to start the next FB or OpenAI or other billion dollar tech company).

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Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy League college and I used to interview for the school, but I stopped wasting my time when no one I interviewed ever got in. At least from that, I knew since my kids’ births that elite college admissions was a total crapshoot.

Sports - my oldest is doing great in HS in no cut activities - marching band and crew. I think the important thing is to be a joiner and get involved in literally anything you can enjoy.

College - maybe we are thinking VT or Penn State is more likely than UVA. I think grad school is the new college. I think my kids will likely go to grad school and that will help.

Work - I am honestly not that impressed with the younger people at work these days. I still think there is still a place for people to succeed who are dependable, responsive, and who take initiative to do the hard work.

I have good older role models. My grandmother lived in the same small un-updated ranch house from 1960-2023. You do NOT need a McMansion to be happy. You need to use something like YNAB / Ramit Sethi and take responsibility for your own finances and live within your means.

I don't really understand this mentality. There are tons of underemployed grad school graduates with really massive student loan debt. There are plenty of VT graduates doing well as engineers or other STEM fields, or working for Accenture, etc. Same for Penn State.

I’ve said this to someone else on here before - but my engineer dad has a masters. My spouse is a teacher and gets paid more with a masters. Most of my peers are employed and have graduate degrees. It’s not imperative but I think can be helpful in most fields if you do it right. But you don’t have to agree with me!

If I am not mistaken, a teacher gets an automatic pay bump for having a graduate degree...so, if you become a teacher you would of course go do that. There are similar government jobs that work this way as well.

However, even your examples are a far cry from "grad school is the new college", and you just have anecdotes. To this day, most CEOs (over 50%) have nothing more than a BA/BS.

Some people value education. Others don’t. It is fine if you don’t. I personally think it is the easiest and fastest way to guarantee yourself a six figure income. I earned 200k+ out of grad school at age 27 and that 20 years ago.

That's a silly argument...law school isn't "education", it's vocational training...getting an MBA isn't "education", it's again vocational training and networking.

You even don't seem to value education as you described it as the "easiest and fastest way to guarantee yourself a six-figure income".

You sound dumb. I’m sure we don’t travel in the same circles.

You sound downright moronic. We probably don't because my circle includes CEOs, P/E principals, investment bank co-founders...just my little circle of successful folks without graduate degrees.

Right back at you. The investment bankers, PE, VC people we know mostly all have ivy mbas. I dont know what kind of crap IB cofounders you know.

The rich ones? You know you can’t win this game right, when the actual richest people in the country (vs your fictional friends) don’t have graduate degrees…and many don’t even have college degrees.

I don’t even know why I am wasting time with some random person on the internet. I’m very proud of my ivy degrees. DH had to work hard for his Ivy MD education. That is fine if you don’t value these but we do. My dad was a professor and has 4 degrees.

We are getting older and I don’t really care much about anything anymore. I don’t put pressure on our kids. I really don’t care about your rich friends or mine. My kids are smart and can compete in a highly competitive environment. Most people we socialize with went to grad school and my kids want to attend top colleges. It is fine if you didn’t or don’t want your kids to go to a top college and grad school.

I agree, OP.

People who lament about this are usually competitive themselves and mad that their kids aren’t top of the pile.

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Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy League college and I used to interview for the school, but I stopped wasting my time when no one I interviewed ever got in. At least from that, I knew since my kids’ births that elite college admissions was a total crapshoot.

Sports - my oldest is doing great in HS in no cut activities - marching band and crew. I think the important thing is to be a joiner and get involved in literally anything you can enjoy.

College - maybe we are thinking VT or Penn State is more likely than UVA. I think grad school is the new college. I think my kids will likely go to grad school and that will help.

Work - I am honestly not that impressed with the younger people at work these days. I still think there is still a place for people to succeed who are dependable, responsive, and who take initiative to do the hard work.

I have good older role models. My grandmother lived in the same small un-updated ranch house from 1960-2023. You do NOT need a McMansion to be happy. You need to use something like YNAB / Ramit Sethi and take responsibility for your own finances and live within your means.

I don't really understand this mentality. There are tons of underemployed grad school graduates with really massive student loan debt. There are plenty of VT graduates doing well as engineers or other STEM fields, or working for Accenture, etc. Same for Penn State.

I’ve said this to someone else on here before - but my engineer dad has a masters. My spouse is a teacher and gets paid more with a masters. Most of my peers are employed and have graduate degrees. It’s not imperative but I think can be helpful in most fields if you do it right. But you don’t have to agree with me!

If I am not mistaken, a teacher gets an automatic pay bump for having a graduate degree...so, if you become a teacher you would of course go do that. There are similar government jobs that work this way as well.

However, even your examples are a far cry from "grad school is the new college", and you just have anecdotes. To this day, most CEOs (over 50%) have nothing more than a BA/BS.

Some people value education. Others don’t. It is fine if you don’t. I personally think it is the easiest and fastest way to guarantee yourself a six figure income. I earned 200k+ out of grad school at age 27 and that 20 years ago.

That's a silly argument...law school isn't "education", it's vocational training...getting an MBA isn't "education", it's again vocational training and networking.

You even don't seem to value education as you described it as the "easiest and fastest way to guarantee yourself a six-figure income".

You sound dumb. I’m sure we don’t travel in the same circles.

You sound downright moronic. We probably don't because my circle includes CEOs, P/E principals, investment bank co-founders...just my little circle of successful folks without graduate degrees.

Right back at you. The investment bankers, PE, VC people we know mostly all have ivy mbas. I dont know what kind of crap IB cofounders you know.

The rich ones? You know you can’t win this game right, when the actual richest people in the country (vs your fictional friends) don’t have graduate degrees…and many don’t even have college degrees.

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy League college and I used to interview for the school, but I stopped wasting my time when no one I interviewed ever got in. At least from that, I knew since my kids’ births that elite college admissions was a total crapshoot.

Sports - my oldest is doing great in HS in no cut activities - marching band and crew. I think the important thing is to be a joiner and get involved in literally anything you can enjoy.

College - maybe we are thinking VT or Penn State is more likely than UVA. I think grad school is the new college. I think my kids will likely go to grad school and that will help.

Work - I am honestly not that impressed with the younger people at work these days. I still think there is still a place for people to succeed who are dependable, responsive, and who take initiative to do the hard work.

I have good older role models. My grandmother lived in the same small un-updated ranch house from 1960-2023. You do NOT need a McMansion to be happy. You need to use something like YNAB / Ramit Sethi and take responsibility for your own finances and live within your means.

I don't really understand this mentality. There are tons of underemployed grad school graduates with really massive student loan debt. There are plenty of VT graduates doing well as engineers or other STEM fields, or working for Accenture, etc. Same for Penn State.

I’ve said this to someone else on here before - but my engineer dad has a masters. My spouse is a teacher and gets paid more with a masters. Most of my peers are employed and have graduate degrees. It’s not imperative but I think can be helpful in most fields if you do it right. But you don’t have to agree with me!

If I am not mistaken, a teacher gets an automatic pay bump for having a graduate degree...so, if you become a teacher you would of course go do that. There are similar government jobs that work this way as well.

However, even your examples are a far cry from "grad school is the new college", and you just have anecdotes. To this day, most CEOs (over 50%) have nothing more than a BA/BS.

Some people value education. Others don’t. It is fine if you don’t. I personally think it is the easiest and fastest way to guarantee yourself a six figure income. I earned 200k+ out of grad school at age 27 and that 20 years ago.

That's a silly argument...law school isn't "education", it's vocational training...getting an MBA isn't "education", it's again vocational training and networking.

You even don't seem to value education as you described it as the "easiest and fastest way to guarantee yourself a six-figure income".

You sound dumb. I’m sure we don’t travel in the same circles.

You sound downright moronic. We probably don't because my circle includes CEOs, P/E principals, investment bank co-founders...just my little circle of successful folks without graduate degrees.

Right back at you. The investment bankers, PE, VC people we know mostly all have ivy mbas. I dont know what kind of crap IB cofounders you know.

Friend is a writer. She is not only competing against people in the US for jobs, but people in faraway places like India who can undercut her prices by a lot. And now with AI, everyone thinks they're a writer and there are a glut of self-published e-books on the market.

Anonymous wrote:It’s because the middle has fallen out of the middle class. To have a comfortable life and be able to afford to have agency you need to be in the top ~15%. It feels competitive because it IS.

I know some wonderful people who have opted out. They have big families, live in PG, go to Catholic parish school or homeschool. Life has a nice pace. For the most part, their kids aren’t going to highly ranked colleges. Some are, but it isn’t the norm. Will their kids be able to afford to buy homes and support families in the future? I’m not sure.

Do poor people have kids? Sure. How is that population doing in school? Not well. What is their quality of life? Poor.

If we had a more robust middle class then it would alleviate the problem.

This is the answer 1000%.

Anonymous wrote:Attempting to keep up with the Jones is the path to ruin.

I know so many teens/young 20-somethings, mostly youth of color, who shunned the traditional college pathway out of necessity. Instead they became apprentices, say in occupations like cyber security or aircraft maintenance. They received a paycheck their apprenticeship, had their related instruction paid for - and in some cased earned a "free" AA or BA degree - received a national credential in a skill, accumulated little/no debt, received on-the-job-learning, received mentorship, and are now earning six-figures, buying cars and homes. While they could pretty much earn lucrative careers at this point, many of them continue to get advanced degrees as well.

It's really a shame to many of you parents are blinded by hubris from learning about all of the career pathways available to your young adult children.

Hear hear!

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I went to an Ivy League college and I used to interview for the school, but I stopped wasting my time when no one I interviewed ever got in. At least from that, I knew since my kids’ births that elite college admissions was a total crapshoot.

Sports - my oldest is doing great in HS in no cut activities - marching band and crew. I think the important thing is to be a joiner and get involved in literally anything you can enjoy.

College - maybe we are thinking VT or Penn State is more likely than UVA. I think grad school is the new college. I think my kids will likely go to grad school and that will help.

Work - I am honestly not that impressed with the younger people at work these days. I still think there is still a place for people to succeed who are dependable, responsive, and who take initiative to do the hard work.

I have good older role models. My grandmother lived in the same small un-updated ranch house from 1960-2023. You do NOT need a McMansion to be happy. You need to use something like YNAB / Ramit Sethi and take responsibility for your own finances and live within your means.

I don't really understand this mentality. There are tons of underemployed grad school graduates with really massive student loan debt. There are plenty of VT graduates doing well as engineers or other STEM fields, or working for Accenture, etc. Same for Penn State.

I’ve said this to someone else on here before - but my engineer dad has a masters. My spouse is a teacher and gets paid more with a masters. Most of my peers are employed and have graduate degrees. It’s not imperative but I think can be helpful in most fields if you do it right. But you don’t have to agree with me!

If I am not mistaken, a teacher gets an automatic pay bump for having a graduate degree...so, if you become a teacher you would of course go do that. There are similar government jobs that work this way as well.

However, even your examples are a far cry from "grad school is the new college", and you just have anecdotes. To this day, most CEOs (over 50%) have nothing more than a BA/BS.

Some people value education. Others don’t. It is fine if you don’t. I personally think it is the easiest and fastest way to guarantee yourself a six figure income. I earned 200k+ out of grad school at age 27 and that 20 years ago.

That's a silly argument...law school isn't "education", it's vocational training...getting an MBA isn't "education", it's again vocational training and networking.

You even don't seem to value education as you described it as the "easiest and fastest way to guarantee yourself a six-figure income".

You sound dumb. I’m sure we don’t travel in the same circles.

You sound downright moronic. We probably don't because my circle includes CEOs, P/E principals, investment bank co-founders...just my little circle of successful folks without graduate degrees.