Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an “anti-aftercare” poster. And a feminist. One has nothing to do with the other. Women should of course be able to work and have full lives. But infants and toddlers should also not be looked after in chaotic institutional settings by minimum-wage employees for 10 hours per day. It’s just wrong in a civilized, wealthy society. And the more anxious society gets, the more vulnerable our kids are. It’s a vicious cycle. And it all coincides with reduced standards in schools, nutrition, environment, security, etc.

I don’t know the solution but the first step in giving children a better start is for the professional classes to recognize the reality most of humankind knows. Flex hours, a few years of paid leave for both sexes, higher pay for daycare workers…all of this would be a start. But all the feminists who deny basic child development make me so upset. In my circle, most of the biggest aftercare and daycare users actually had sahms or nannies themselves.

They think because I didn’t change my name, vote for dems, married late, am an atheist etc that I agree with them. I don’t want anyone to feel judged because it’s not about them—it’s about what’s right for children.

How are you so supposedly educated and not know about Montessori education? They have awesome afrercare too. My kids get mad if I pick them up early and they miss cooking, chess, or any of the other activities.

Also what are you rambling about with child development? Do you run a cooking class from you house after school? And is your chess game good enough to teach chess? And do you also personally teach your kids violin? Flute? What about a second language? You aren't the end all and be all for your child. To believe that is unhealthy!

Kids don’t need chess and cooking classes in elementary school. They need a family member and a peaceful home.

Honestly, the PP you’re responding to (and I believe she has posted a few other times) sounds like the type of person who hires the very best Master Gardener and grounds keeping crew to cultivate her fabulous garden which she can then show off to all of her friends and colleagues. And the garden is indeed beautiful and healthy and thriving. And she truly loves her garden. But she is not interested in the day to day labor of love, getting her hands in the dirt aspect of gardening - she just wants the results.

And that’s of course one way to do it. I’m not even criticizing that way, but this is just a person I could never see eye to eye with when discussing caring for a garden (or, ahem, children).

Pp who wrote about Montessori here. I have a PhD in education. Yep, don't tend my children at all. Cause I know nothing about their development and needs.

And yes, I probably judge you for your parenting.

There we go, that explains the combination of unearned confidence and lack of familiarity with any actual empirical literature in this area!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an “anti-aftercare” poster. And a feminist. One has nothing to do with the other. Women should of course be able to work and have full lives. But infants and toddlers should also not be looked after in chaotic institutional settings by minimum-wage employees for 10 hours per day. It’s just wrong in a civilized, wealthy society. And the more anxious society gets, the more vulnerable our kids are. It’s a vicious cycle. And it all coincides with reduced standards in schools, nutrition, environment, security, etc.

I don’t know the solution but the first step in giving children a better start is for the professional classes to recognize the reality most of humankind knows. Flex hours, a few years of paid leave for both sexes, higher pay for daycare workers…all of this would be a start. But all the feminists who deny basic child development make me so upset. In my circle, most of the biggest aftercare and daycare users actually had sahms or nannies themselves.

They think because I didn’t change my name, vote for dems, married late, am an atheist etc that I agree with them. I don’t want anyone to feel judged because it’s not about them—it’s about what’s right for children.

How are you so supposedly educated and not know about Montessori education? They have awesome afrercare too. My kids get mad if I pick them up early and they miss cooking, chess, or any of the other activities.

Also what are you rambling about with child development? Do you run a cooking class from you house after school? And is your chess game good enough to teach chess? And do you also personally teach your kids violin? Flute? What about a second language? You aren't the end all and be all for your child. To believe that is unhealthy!

Kids don’t need chess and cooking classes in elementary school. They need a family member and a peaceful home.

Honestly, the PP you’re responding to (and I believe she has posted a few other times) sounds like the type of person who hires the very best Master Gardener and grounds keeping crew to cultivate her fabulous garden which she can then show off to all of her friends and colleagues. And the garden is indeed beautiful and healthy and thriving. And she truly loves her garden. But she is not interested in the day to day labor of love, getting her hands in the dirt aspect of gardening - she just wants the results.

And that’s of course one way to do it. I’m not even criticizing that way, but this is just a person I could never see eye to eye with when discussing caring for a garden (or, ahem, children).

Pp who wrote about Montessori here. I have a PhD in education. Yep, don't tend my children at all. Cause I know nothing about their development and needs.

And yes, I probably judge you for your parenting.

Trotting out more credentials. You are proving my point. You can judge me all you like, I truly have no regard for you.

As a mother of 2 teen daughters, I don't even know how to advise them. I chose the SAHM path, but it has it's drawbacks too. I've never been a working mom, and they haven't seen that model up close. My very successful SIL (the mom of the cousins that my girls are closest to) makes it look easy, or at least very doable, but she is obviously not telling my daughters the parts that are hard, especially back when her children were small. All are teens now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an “anti-aftercare” poster. And a feminist. One has nothing to do with the other. Women should of course be able to work and have full lives. But infants and toddlers should also not be looked after in chaotic institutional settings by minimum-wage employees for 10 hours per day. It’s just wrong in a civilized, wealthy society. And the more anxious society gets, the more vulnerable our kids are. It’s a vicious cycle. And it all coincides with reduced standards in schools, nutrition, environment, security, etc.

I don’t know the solution but the first step in giving children a better start is for the professional classes to recognize the reality most of humankind knows. Flex hours, a few years of paid leave for both sexes, higher pay for daycare workers…all of this would be a start. But all the feminists who deny basic child development make me so upset. In my circle, most of the biggest aftercare and daycare users actually had sahms or nannies themselves.

They think because I didn’t change my name, vote for dems, married late, am an atheist etc that I agree with them. I don’t want anyone to feel judged because it’s not about them—it’s about what’s right for children.

How are you so supposedly educated and not know about Montessori education? They have awesome afrercare too. My kids get mad if I pick them up early and they miss cooking, chess, or any of the other activities.

Also what are you rambling about with child development? Do you run a cooking class from you house after school? And is your chess game good enough to teach chess? And do you also personally teach your kids violin? Flute? What about a second language? You aren't the end all and be all for your child. To believe that is unhealthy!

Kids don’t need chess and cooking classes in elementary school. They need a family member and a peaceful home.

Yeah you know nothing about child development. But keep telling yourself you do.

Other people on this thread--it isn't a referendum on daycare/aftercare v sahm. Someone always makes it "about the children" when we know children do best when the parents are happy/thriving themselves. If that means a sahp in your family, go for it! If that means aftercare and camps, go for it. The problem is when we aren't true to ourselves and do what think should be done rather than what's best for our own families.

I love working. Even my worst day at work isn't as bad as staying home for me personally. Yes it is hard at times and I am tired. But it does make me a better parent in general.

Are your kids still very young or do you have an only? I think that’s probably why you are not burned out yet like the rest of us. Talk to us when your children are done with elementary school!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an “anti-aftercare” poster. And a feminist. One has nothing to do with the other. Women should of course be able to work and have full lives. But infants and toddlers should also not be looked after in chaotic institutional settings by minimum-wage employees for 10 hours per day. It’s just wrong in a civilized, wealthy society. And the more anxious society gets, the more vulnerable our kids are. It’s a vicious cycle. And it all coincides with reduced standards in schools, nutrition, environment, security, etc.

I don’t know the solution but the first step in giving children a better start is for the professional classes to recognize the reality most of humankind knows. Flex hours, a few years of paid leave for both sexes, higher pay for daycare workers…all of this would be a start. But all the feminists who deny basic child development make me so upset. In my circle, most of the biggest aftercare and daycare users actually had sahms or nannies themselves.

They think because I didn’t change my name, vote for dems, married late, am an atheist etc that I agree with them. I don’t want anyone to feel judged because it’s not about them—it’s about what’s right for children.

How are you so supposedly educated and not know about Montessori education? They have awesome afrercare too. My kids get mad if I pick them up early and they miss cooking, chess, or any of the other activities.

Also what are you rambling about with child development? Do you run a cooking class from you house after school? And is your chess game good enough to teach chess? And do you also personally teach your kids violin? Flute? What about a second language? You aren't the end all and be all for your child. To believe that is unhealthy!

Kids don’t need chess and cooking classes in elementary school. They need a family member and a peaceful home.

Honestly, the PP you’re responding to (and I believe she has posted a few other times) sounds like the type of person who hires the very best Master Gardener and grounds keeping crew to cultivate her fabulous garden which she can then show off to all of her friends and colleagues. And the garden is indeed beautiful and healthy and thriving. And she truly loves her garden. But she is not interested in the day to day labor of love, getting her hands in the dirt aspect of gardening - she just wants the results.

And that’s of course one way to do it. I’m not even criticizing that way, but this is just a person I could never see eye to eye with when discussing caring for a garden (or, ahem, children).

Pp who wrote about Montessori here. I have a PhD in education. Yep, don't tend my children at all. Cause I know nothing about their development and needs.

And yes, I probably judge you for your parenting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an “anti-aftercare” poster. And a feminist. One has nothing to do with the other. Women should of course be able to work and have full lives. But infants and toddlers should also not be looked after in chaotic institutional settings by minimum-wage employees for 10 hours per day. It’s just wrong in a civilized, wealthy society. And the more anxious society gets, the more vulnerable our kids are. It’s a vicious cycle. And it all coincides with reduced standards in schools, nutrition, environment, security, etc.

I don’t know the solution but the first step in giving children a better start is for the professional classes to recognize the reality most of humankind knows. Flex hours, a few years of paid leave for both sexes, higher pay for daycare workers…all of this would be a start. But all the feminists who deny basic child development make me so upset. In my circle, most of the biggest aftercare and daycare users actually had sahms or nannies themselves.

They think because I didn’t change my name, vote for dems, married late, am an atheist etc that I agree with them. I don’t want anyone to feel judged because it’s not about them—it’s about what’s right for children.

How are you so supposedly educated and not know about Montessori education? They have awesome afrercare too. My kids get mad if I pick them up early and they miss cooking, chess, or any of the other activities.

Also what are you rambling about with child development? Do you run a cooking class from you house after school? And is your chess game good enough to teach chess? And do you also personally teach your kids violin? Flute? What about a second language? You aren't the end all and be all for your child. To believe that is unhealthy!

Kids don’t need chess and cooking classes in elementary school. They need a family member and a peaceful home.

Honestly, the PP you’re responding to (and I believe she has posted a few other times) sounds like the type of person who hires the very best Master Gardener and grounds keeping crew to cultivate her fabulous garden which she can then show off to all of her friends and colleagues. And the garden is indeed beautiful and healthy and thriving. And she truly loves her garden. But she is not interested in the day to day labor of love, getting her hands in the dirt aspect of gardening - she just wants the results.

And that’s of course one way to do it. I’m not even criticizing that way, but this is just a person I could never see eye to eye with when discussing caring for a garden (or, ahem, children).

So kids in aftercare aren’t doing team sports I guess? Most seem to start at 5, some even at 4.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m an “anti-aftercare” poster. And a feminist. One has nothing to do with the other. Women should of course be able to work and have full lives. But infants and toddlers should also not be looked after in chaotic institutional settings by minimum-wage employees for 10 hours per day. It’s just wrong in a civilized, wealthy society. And the more anxious society gets, the more vulnerable our kids are. It’s a vicious cycle. And it all coincides with reduced standards in schools, nutrition, environment, security, etc.

I don’t know the solution but the first step in giving children a better start is for the professional classes to recognize the reality most of humankind knows. Flex hours, a few years of paid leave for both sexes, higher pay for daycare workers…all of this would be a start. But all the feminists who deny basic child development make me so upset. In my circle, most of the biggest aftercare and daycare users actually had sahms or nannies themselves.

They think because I didn’t change my name, vote for dems, married late, am an atheist etc that I agree with them. I don’t want anyone to feel judged because it’s not about them—it’s about what’s right for children.

How are you so supposedly educated and not know about Montessori education? They have awesome afrercare too. My kids get mad if I pick them up early and they miss cooking, chess, or any of the other activities.

Also what are you rambling about with child development? Do you run a cooking class from you house after school? And is your chess game good enough to teach chess? And do you also personally teach your kids violin? Flute? What about a second language? You aren't the end all and be all for your child. To believe that is unhealthy!

Kids don’t need chess and cooking classes in elementary school. They need a family member and a peaceful home.

Yeah you know nothing about child development. But keep telling yourself you do.

Other people on this thread--it isn't a referendum on daycare/aftercare v sahm. Someone always makes it "about the children" when we know children do best when the parents are happy/thriving themselves. If that means a sahp in your family, go for it! If that means aftercare and camps, go for it. The problem is when we aren't true to ourselves and do what think should be done rather than what's best for our own families.

I love working. Even my worst day at work isn't as bad as staying home for me personally. Yes it is hard at times and I am tired. But it does make me a better parent in general.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never met a woman who was in daycare/aftercare as a child also want that for her own kids. The problem is no one talks about what it costs to avoid this until you’ve had a baby.

I actually think is a huge benefit of dcum—keeping it real for young women who stumble upon posts like this.

seriously, you have to be strategic in your 20s when you’re dating about the kind of life you’re gonna have over the next two decades.

So what is your proposal for the 99% of the population that doesn’t marry someone in BigLaw, medicine, etc?

The rest of the world like Korea and Italy have figured it out: don’t have kids.

Too late, kids are already here. Should I send them back?

We need to pay teachers and childhood workers more. The government should subsidise these programs like they do in Europe. Happier, less stressed workers and smaller ratios of kids to caregivers would improve things. Aftercare at my kids elementary school was loud and chaotic.
Some kids love it but for more introverted kids, it is a nightmare. Add in before care as well, and it is a long and taxing day for small children.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:DH and I have flexible and interesting jobs and one child. We don't worry about money and each have time to relax. Not surprised studies show women with one child are happier than women with no or multiple children.

+1 and I also have two sets of local grandparents who are lovely. And enough funds to outsource a lot of stuff. I'm pretty happy and would HATE being a sahm.

+2. It’s really the second child that makes life very complex. I have two, and were it not for some flexibility in my job and involved grandparents, I would quit. With just one, I wouldn’t need any of those things really.

Honestly, we need more PT options in this country, especially in competitive fields like law, finance, consulting. And I mean real PT options, not poorly paid ones or ones that are stealth FT jobs.

This right here. People are like "just go part time" and that doesn't really exist in my field. I would probably still work full time for less pay.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have never met a woman who was in daycare/aftercare as a child also want that for her own kids. The problem is no one talks about what it costs to avoid this until you’ve had a baby.

I actually think is a huge benefit of dcum—keeping it real for young women who stumble upon posts like this.

seriously, you have to be strategic in your 20s when you’re dating about the kind of life you’re gonna have over the next two decades.

So what is your proposal for the 99% of the population that doesn’t marry someone in BigLaw, medicine, etc?

The rest of the world like Korea and Italy have figured it out: don’t have kids.

Are you the kind of person that cries to sleep every night because you didn't grow up in a top 1% household and you're alive?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm the parent who keeps the flex schedule so kids aren't in SACC till 6 or stuck in camp aftercare which is ALWAYS terrible. But my career is so stymied by being parent friendly. Really wish we had focused on breadwinner SAHM model rather than equality and "do it all" fallacy.

That's all. Off to pick up my kids from camp.

+1 In your same boat OP. My husband was working in big law when I had my first and told me he'd happily be the breadwinner if I wanted to stay at home. I blame years of indoctrination from my education and even my own parents that WOMEN MUST HAVE A CAREER AND YES THEY CAN HAVE IT ALL, I chose to stay in my well paid but stressful consulting job. As much as it hurt to see my baby get whisked off by a nanny (yes, we had the privilege of affording a nanny but I still didn't love the arrangement), I just could not give up my career. I didn't even love my job, but I loved that I had a career and that's what my peers and society told me I had to have.

Fast forward 5 years, we've had a second kid and husband now works as a government lawyer. I essentially had to mommy track at some point and now I'm neither here nor there. No longer work for the prestigious big name company but still have to keep working so I'm constantly stretched thing as the primary back-up care person, especially in the summer.

Wish I had chosen to be a SAHM when the chance was there. Or not had kids. Or just had one.

Oof, this hits hard. I feel this so much right now. So much of my identity has been wrapped up in my career. I switched jobs during maternity leave (went back when my DD was 12 weeks old) and pumped/nursed till she was 12 months old, was promoted within 18 months of starting there and then promoted again before the end of my 4th year there. Now flash forward 9 years at this job and I am SO burnt out.

I thought the newborn years were tough ... lolllllllll, this is so much harder. Nothing for an elementary school kid lines up with working hours, where as daycare is catered (obviously) to working parents. But once they are in school... good luck. Yes, there's before/after care, but once they find out most of their friends aren't in before/after care, the guilt sets in. Then once they get into activities, stuff starts at like 4pm!

Right now we are dealing with the reluctance to go to summer camp. And I don't blame her. It's fun enough, but so structured and she's getting up earlier than her body wants to and then she's super involved in an activity that she goes to nearly every night after a long day of camp. Poor kid is TIRED. It's not a relaxing summer for any of us. Her activity is what she loves so she doesn't want to give that up/cut back (she's upset as it is that there are certain classes she can't take due to my work schedule/her camp schedule). She gets left out of things with friends because their moms are either SAHM/teachers/PTWM/WAHM with very flexible schedules... I'm none of those things. Then come the weekends and I'm just playing catch up on life so I never really want to do anything fun. Finally I just said F it last weekend and we spent all day at the pool, but come Monday, we are both paying for it. She's tired and doesn't want to get up early, and I'm behind on laundry and groceries. It's such an exhausting slog.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Aftercare was a disaster for my 3 yo. It was too chaotic and the kids don’t socialize well at that age so it’s stressful. My kids both enjoyed aftercare as elementary schoolers and I have zero guilt.

Your 3 year old is in daycare. There isn't aftercare for 3 year olds. Just stop.

I'm not PP but there is PK3 in DC and there is aftercare for it.

Anonymous wrote:Aftercare was a disaster for my 3 yo. It was too chaotic and the kids don’t socialize well at that age so it’s stressful. My kids both enjoyed aftercare as elementary schoolers and I have zero guilt.

Your 3 year old is in daycare. There isn't aftercare for 3 year olds. Just stop.