Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, this is one thing that I struggle with myself.

The last church I went to, the pastor was talking about how the way we pray makes a difference, that there're correct and incorrect ways of praying. I broke down right then and there, thinking that I must not have prayed correctly b/c why else did my mom suffer so much from her cancer and die with such agony and indignity. Then I got really angry at the idea that if you pray incorrectly, God will refuse to listen.

I don't know the answer. And I suspect nobody really does.

Let me try.

God doesn't really exist in the way people think and cancer is a chain of events that happens inside the body. God does not give people cancer anymore than God heals people with cancer.

Does God dictate the laws of physics or does God follow then? If God dictates the laws of physics than surely we would see miracles that are exceptions. We don't

But God created cancer. If God wanted to create bodies in which cells didn't mutate, God could have done so - unless you don't believe that God actually has control over everything in the universe? There is no "good" God unless there is also an evil god, who also creates and dishes to humans all the traumas and pains in life.

Ultimately, the evidence is clear - there is no god. Not in any "creator" type sense. No afterlife, no being that actually starts and ends.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Honestly, this is one thing that I struggle with myself.

The last church I went to, the pastor was talking about how the way we pray makes a difference, that there're correct and incorrect ways of praying. I broke down right then and there, thinking that I must not have prayed correctly b/c why else did my mom suffer so much from her cancer and die with such agony and indignity. Then I got really angry at the idea that if you pray incorrectly, God will refuse to listen.

I don't know the answer. And I suspect nobody really does.

Let me try.

God doesn't really exist in the way people think and cancer is a chain of events that happens inside the body. God does not give people cancer anymore than God heals people with cancer.

Does God dictate the laws of physics or does God follow then? If God dictates the laws of physics than surely we would see miracles that are exceptions. We don't

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We know a family who recently had a child die of cancer. The kid went from healthy and happy to dead at 16 in 11 months. It was vicious and horrible and involved all kinds of anguish and suffering. The child's mother created a Caring Bridge site and she detailed the abominable suffering her child had gone through the night before. Some fool commented on the description by saying "God doesn't give anyone more than they can handle". It was a prime example of how trite religious sayings spew forth from well intentioned people yet have awful consequences. I just can't imagine being a big enough jackass to dare say something like that. It was completely emotionally tone deaf to a frightening degree.
A merciful God wouldn't do that to a child. He also wouldn't let kids starve or anyone get ALS or whatever.

So, the alternative is to believe that the child's suffering was random and pointless. Is that better? But I agree the message was awful.

DP, but yes I think acknowledging the complete randomness and unfairness of it is more validating to a parents’ suffering than suggesting God is killing their child painfully because they can “handle it.” It’s okay for a parent to share that cancer treatment really sucks and to agree it is terrible and sucks. The only one who feels better after saying it is God’s will is the poster who wants some tidy answer about God being in charge.

No sane person would ever say that to grieving parents but this is about what the parents believe. Again if you think it being random is validating and all that, great for you. But don't be so shocked that it doesn't work for many people. And don't be shocked that those who have faith can weather more storms.

I am the pp with the story about the kid with cancer who passed away. I will say that the child's parents are, in fact, very religious and, oddly, this has seemed to strengthen their faith - at least outwardly. Perhaps inside they are wrestling with why the hell it was their child. However, as you allude to, a lot of people who I know who are religious and have had a tragedy do seem to lean into their faith. If it were me, I'd be pissed at God.
As it is, I do think the universe is either random or run by a disinterested entity. I just don't see how a just God allows that to happen, and please don't give me some gobbledeegook about how he works in mysterious ways.

I think it is hard to predict how one will react to such a tragedy. I personally suffered a much much smaller tragedy but it was life altering and extremely traumatic. At first I was pissed at God, exactly as you would predict. But then I realized that led me nowhere, only further despair as it meant that everything could be pulled out under me at any time and I lived in terror and fear. Long story short, ultimately only the faith that it wasn't random and that there was a reason for my suffering (whether I can ever understand that reason in this world or not) helped me move on and to live again without trauma and fear. So yeah, I can understand the parents faith deepening. They don't want their daughters life, death, and suffering to be meaningless.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We know a family who recently had a child die of cancer. The kid went from healthy and happy to dead at 16 in 11 months. It was vicious and horrible and involved all kinds of anguish and suffering. The child's mother created a Caring Bridge site and she detailed the abominable suffering her child had gone through the night before. Some fool commented on the description by saying "God doesn't give anyone more than they can handle". It was a prime example of how trite religious sayings spew forth from well intentioned people yet have awful consequences. I just can't imagine being a big enough jackass to dare say something like that. It was completely emotionally tone deaf to a frightening degree.
A merciful God wouldn't do that to a child. He also wouldn't let kids starve or anyone get ALS or whatever.

So, the alternative is to believe that the child's suffering was random and pointless. Is that better? But I agree the message was awful.

DP, but yes I think acknowledging the complete randomness and unfairness of it is more validating to a parents’ suffering than suggesting God is killing their child painfully because they can “handle it.” It’s okay for a parent to share that cancer treatment really sucks and to agree it is terrible and sucks. The only one who feels better after saying it is God’s will is the poster who wants some tidy answer about God being in charge.

No sane person would ever say that to grieving parents but this is about what the parents believe. Again if you think it being random is validating and all that, great for you. But don't be so shocked that it doesn't work for many people. And don't be shocked that those who have faith can weather more storms.

I am the pp with the story about the kid with cancer who passed away. I will say that the child's parents are, in fact, very religious and, oddly, this has seemed to strengthen their faith - at least outwardly. Perhaps inside they are wrestling with why the hell it was their child. However, as you allude to, a lot of people who I know who are religious and have had a tragedy do seem to lean into their faith. If it were me, I'd be pissed at God.
As it is, I do think the universe is either random or run by a disinterested entity. I just don't see how a just God allows that to happen, and please don't give me some gobbledeegook about how he works in mysterious ways.

I think it is hard to predict how one will react to such a tragedy. I personally suffered a much much smaller tragedy but it was life altering and extremely traumatic. At first I was pissed at God, exactly as you would predict. But then I realized that led me nowhere, only further despair as it meant that everything could be pulled out under me at any time and I lived in terror and fear. Long story short, ultimately only the faith that it wasn't random and that there was a reason for my suffering (whether I can ever understand that reason in this world or not) helped me move on and to live again without trauma and fear. So yeah, I can understand the parents faith deepening. They don't want their daughters life, death, and suffering to be meaningless.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We know a family who recently had a child die of cancer. The kid went from healthy and happy to dead at 16 in 11 months. It was vicious and horrible and involved all kinds of anguish and suffering. The child's mother created a Caring Bridge site and she detailed the abominable suffering her child had gone through the night before. Some fool commented on the description by saying "God doesn't give anyone more than they can handle". It was a prime example of how trite religious sayings spew forth from well intentioned people yet have awful consequences. I just can't imagine being a big enough jackass to dare say something like that. It was completely emotionally tone deaf to a frightening degree.
A merciful God wouldn't do that to a child. He also wouldn't let kids starve or anyone get ALS or whatever.

So, the alternative is to believe that the child's suffering was random and pointless. Is that better? But I agree the message was awful.

DP, but yes I think acknowledging the complete randomness and unfairness of it is more validating to a parents’ suffering than suggesting God is killing their child painfully because they can “handle it.” It’s okay for a parent to share that cancer treatment really sucks and to agree it is terrible and sucks. The only one who feels better after saying it is God’s will is the poster who wants some tidy answer about God being in charge.

No sane person would ever say that to grieving parents but this is about what the parents believe. Again if you think it being random is validating and all that, great for you. But don't be so shocked that it doesn't work for many people. And don't be shocked that those who have faith can weather more storms.

I am the pp with the story about the kid with cancer who passed away. I will say that the child's parents are, in fact, very religious and, oddly, this has seemed to strengthen their faith - at least outwardly. Perhaps inside they are wrestling with why the hell it was their child. However, as you allude to, a lot of people who I know who are religious and have had a tragedy do seem to lean into their faith. If it were me, I'd be pissed at God.
As it is, I do think the universe is either random or run by a disinterested entity. I just don't see how a just God allows that to happen, and please don't give me some gobbledeegook about how he works in mysterious ways.

Anonymous wrote:First off, this question, the question of suffering (and evil) is one of the toughest questions for Christianity, so you are not alone in raising this. It has been written about over and over from different angles by different theologians. If are looking for an answer, start with some books, not here.

Here are some personal thoughts on this issue. First, Christianity looks at suffering through a very different lens than secular society. In Christianity, suffering is redemptive. Part of the reason Jesus has to die (as someone asked) is precisely to show us the power of obedience and suffering. So I think for the faithful, they view tragic events differently, or aspire to. They try to focus on the love in the situation, and the grief, while real, is an extension of that love.

Second is the idea that whatever suffering there is in this world will pale in comparison to the glory of heaven. We feel suffering and evil acutely because this world is all we know and anything that shatters our lives in this world feels catastrophic. However, this is not how God sees things. It is like if your 2 year old needs to have some procedure, it might feel like the end of the world for him, but you as the parent know that the small pain is worth it because it will make him healthier in the long run. We don't have the long view but God does.

Third is the idea that God does not create any of the evil or suffering. He allows it, which might be a small distinction but it is an important one. And he only allows suffering and evil when it would ultimately bring about a greater good. I find the parent analogy really apt here. A good parent would never cause harm or suffering to their child but might allow a certain amount of suffering in order to bring about a greater good (natural consequences, for example, or to learn value of hard work etc).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We know a family who recently had a child die of cancer. The kid went from healthy and happy to dead at 16 in 11 months. It was vicious and horrible and involved all kinds of anguish and suffering. The child's mother created a Caring Bridge site and she detailed the abominable suffering her child had gone through the night before. Some fool commented on the description by saying "God doesn't give anyone more than they can handle". It was a prime example of how trite religious sayings spew forth from well intentioned people yet have awful consequences. I just can't imagine being a big enough jackass to dare say something like that. It was completely emotionally tone deaf to a frightening degree.
A merciful God wouldn't do that to a child. He also wouldn't let kids starve or anyone get ALS or whatever.

So, the alternative is to believe that the child's suffering was random and pointless. Is that better? But I agree the message was awful.

DP, but yes I think acknowledging the complete randomness and unfairness of it is more validating to a parents’ suffering than suggesting God is killing their child painfully because they can “handle it.” It’s okay for a parent to share that cancer treatment really sucks and to agree it is terrible and sucks. The only one who feels better after saying it is God’s will is the poster who wants some tidy answer about God being in charge.

No sane person would ever say that to grieving parents but this is about what the parents believe. Again if you think it being random is validating and all that, great for you. But don't be so shocked that it doesn't work for many people. And don't be shocked that those who have faith can weather more storms.

Anonymous wrote:The atheists have still not come forth with their view of suffering and how it makes it feel better. Only one person said something about science and her conclusion was that she wasnt sure life is worth it. So, that pretty much supports what other PP said about thinking atheists being depressed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We know a family who recently had a child die of cancer. The kid went from healthy and happy to dead at 16 in 11 months. It was vicious and horrible and involved all kinds of anguish and suffering. The child's mother created a Caring Bridge site and she detailed the abominable suffering her child had gone through the night before. Some fool commented on the description by saying "God doesn't give anyone more than they can handle". It was a prime example of how trite religious sayings spew forth from well intentioned people yet have awful consequences. I just can't imagine being a big enough jackass to dare say something like that. It was completely emotionally tone deaf to a frightening degree.
A merciful God wouldn't do that to a child. He also wouldn't let kids starve or anyone get ALS or whatever.

So, the alternative is to believe that the child's suffering was random and pointless. Is that better? But I agree the message was awful.

DP, but yes I think acknowledging the complete randomness and unfairness of it is more validating to a parents’ suffering than suggesting God is killing their child painfully because they can “handle it.” It’s okay for a parent to share that cancer treatment really sucks and to agree it is terrible and sucks. The only one who feels better after saying it is God’s will is the poster who wants some tidy answer about God being in charge.

No sane person would ever say that to grieving parents but this is about what the parents believe. Again if you think it being random is validating and all that, great for you. But don't be so shocked that it doesn't work for many people. And don't be shocked that those who have faith can weather more storms.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We know a family who recently had a child die of cancer. The kid went from healthy and happy to dead at 16 in 11 months. It was vicious and horrible and involved all kinds of anguish and suffering. The child's mother created a Caring Bridge site and she detailed the abominable suffering her child had gone through the night before. Some fool commented on the description by saying "God doesn't give anyone more than they can handle". It was a prime example of how trite religious sayings spew forth from well intentioned people yet have awful consequences. I just can't imagine being a big enough jackass to dare say something like that. It was completely emotionally tone deaf to a frightening degree.
A merciful God wouldn't do that to a child. He also wouldn't let kids starve or anyone get ALS or whatever.

So, the alternative is to believe that the child's suffering was random and pointless. Is that better? But I agree the message was awful.

DP, but yes I think acknowledging the complete randomness and unfairness of it is more validating to a parents’ suffering than suggesting God is killing their child painfully because they can “handle it.” It’s okay for a parent to share that cancer treatment really sucks and to agree it is terrible and sucks. The only one who feels better after saying it is God’s will is the poster who wants some tidy answer about God being in charge.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We know a family who recently had a child die of cancer. The kid went from healthy and happy to dead at 16 in 11 months. It was vicious and horrible and involved all kinds of anguish and suffering. The child's mother created a Caring Bridge site and she detailed the abominable suffering her child had gone through the night before. Some fool commented on the description by saying "God doesn't give anyone more than they can handle". It was a prime example of how trite religious sayings spew forth from well intentioned people yet have awful consequences. I just can't imagine being a big enough jackass to dare say something like that. It was completely emotionally tone deaf to a frightening degree.
A merciful God wouldn't do that to a child. He also wouldn't let kids starve or anyone get ALS or whatever.

So, the alternative is to believe that the child's suffering was random and pointless. Is that better? But I agree the message was awful.

Anonymous wrote:The atheists have still not come forth with their view of suffering and how it makes it feel better. Only one person said something about science and her conclusion was that she wasnt sure life is worth it. So, that pretty much supports what other PP said about thinking atheists being depressed.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We know a family who recently had a child die of cancer. The kid went from healthy and happy to dead at 16 in 11 months. It was vicious and horrible and involved all kinds of anguish and suffering. The child's mother created a Caring Bridge site and she detailed the abominable suffering her child had gone through the night before. Some fool commented on the description by saying "God doesn't give anyone more than they can handle". It was a prime example of how trite religious sayings spew forth from well intentioned people yet have awful consequences. I just can't imagine being a big enough jackass to dare say something like that. It was completely emotionally tone deaf to a frightening degree.
A merciful God wouldn't do that to a child. He also wouldn't let kids starve or anyone get ALS or whatever.

So, the alternative is to believe that the child's suffering was random and pointless. Is that better? But I agree the message was awful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We know a family who recently had a child die of cancer. The kid went from healthy and happy to dead at 16 in 11 months. It was vicious and horrible and involved all kinds of anguish and suffering. The child's mother created a Caring Bridge site and she detailed the abominable suffering her child had gone through the night before. Some fool commented on the description by saying "God doesn't give anyone more than they can handle". It was a prime example of how trite religious sayings spew forth from well intentioned people yet have awful consequences. I just can't imagine being a big enough jackass to dare say something like that. It was completely emotionally tone deaf to a frightening degree.
A merciful God wouldn't do that to a child. He also wouldn't let kids starve or anyone get ALS or whatever.

So, the alternative is to believe that the child's suffering was random and pointless. Is that better? But I agree the message was awful.