Anonymous wrote:I think we should get to the bottom of what actually happened, but that is more to try to figure out how to prevent the same scenario in the future. Finger pointing about wet market vs lab leak is of no use 4+ years on within this country. Yes, we can punish China in some way, but it has to be international (sanctions, restrictions on publishing of research, etc) and not like us declaring war or nonsense like that.

How it started was really not that important in how our country handled the virus. That also can be examined and lessons learned. The thing people leave out of their complaints of how it was handled is that the virus changed/mutated over time. There were things that were more effective with the original version vs the evolved virus. The vaccine was pretty effective at the beginning then the virus changed and got around that protection. It still was highly effective at preventing death, but people screamed that it didn’t work and why bother getting it? So frustrating that people can’t understand that this virus was mutating in real time

How COVID was handled bitterly divided the country and brought out the worst in many people, on both sides of the spectrum. A great deal of it had to do with that the establishment classes (whatever we call them) firmly shut down any dialogue on COVID, its origins, how to handle it, all in the name of "FOLLOW THE SCIENCE!" Posts after posts were censored and deleted right here on DCUM just for questioning aspects of COVID. And Anthony Fauci definitely played a key role in suppressing that dialogue, even if he probably thought it was in the name of the greater good. He effectively killed the Great Barrington Declaration by declaring it heretic (even if the signatories turned out to be right) and promoted the publication of "COVID is naturally occurring" messages in various science magazines and publicly stated so. At the same time, the same group of largely unelected bureaucrats came up with ideas like shutting down schools for a year and the six feet social distancing and even masking when they had no real scientific evidence or basis for doing so, which has been the main revelations of the recent testimonies.

Unfortunately, what it means it's steadily turning out that the skeptics were largely correct the entire time despite being classified as wacko conspiracy theorists in 2020.

People cannot forget that, no matter how you claim it doesn't make a difference. It makes all the difference, especially in a society that historically prides itself on being a free democracy. The level of censorship we saw during the early COVID years was unprecedented in modern American history, with federal bureaucrats and CDC and later the Biden WH going out of their way to suppress public dialogues over COVID and its origins. The collapse in trust in the authorities started from the very beginning and drastically affected how people responded to COVID. In the long run that has done far more damage than any vaccine resistance. We may never recover as a society.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who cares. China is the new superpower in the world. They are leaps and bounds ahead of the west in every aspect.

Our government is pretty much owned by China on both sides.

They’re not the new superpower. Laughable. China will grow old before they grow rich. They went off a population cliff and the economy is tanking.

The RNC and DNC are the current global superpowers thanks to all the dirty dollars that stream in continuously.

Let's go back in time to March 2020...
Besides the few people who are critically ill, ERs all over the country are taking swabs from people with cold symptoms. These patients are instructed to stay home and isolate until they get their results back.
The swabs have to be sent to government run labs located in capital cities. The government lab workers there are working 9 to 5, Monday through Friday just like normal times. The results take around 10 days to come back, so for those 10 days the patients are supposedly isolating in their homes.
Why couldn't other labs do their own tests? Because the nucleic acid primers originally supplied by the CDC for labs to develop their own PCR test came with a positive control that for some odd reason, failed all over the country. So the development of independent tests was delayed around a month...just enough time for the virus to explode. Combine that with conflicting information about masks -- don't wear them because they need to be conserved for front line workers! Until the virus is completely entrenched, then you MUST wear them even walking your dog.
It felt like sabotage from my perspective as a scientist.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I’m a liberal but never said that. I said who cares if it’s from a lab or a wet market? Neither can make me think any less of China. There’s a million reasons to reprimand China. Uyghurs? Child labor? Forced labor? IP theft? The list is soooooo long! I guess we overlook everything because pandas.

Releasing a virus that destroyed the world's economy and an entire generation of kids from keeping them out of school? That's a big one too. And the democrats policies of going along with it make them culpable.

Ridiculous statement. Completely ignores Trump’s involvement with lockdowns and pandemic handlings. But we already know that MAGA accepts no responsibility on anything because they’re a cult.

Anonymous wrote:Who cares. China is the new superpower in the world. They are leaps and bounds ahead of the west in every aspect.

Our government is pretty much owned by China on both sides.

No, our government isn't owned by China yet. Our government is owned by the rich and powerful donors to the RNC and DNC. A second grader could figure that out.

Anonymous wrote:Who cares. China is the new superpower in the world. They are leaps and bounds ahead of the west in every aspect.

Our government is pretty much owned by China on both sides.

They’re not the new superpower. Laughable. China will grow old before they grow rich. They went off a population cliff and the economy is tanking.

Anonymous wrote:Who cares. China is the new superpower in the world. They are leaps and bounds ahead of the west in every aspect.

Our government is pretty much owned by China on both sides.

No, they are not, and our economy is MUCH better right now. Our main problem is the traitorous GOP. Once that gets solved, assuming it does, out country will be much better positioned for the rest of the century.

Who cares. China is the new superpower in the world. They are leaps and bounds ahead of the west in every aspect.

Our government is pretty much owned by China on both sides.

I think we should get to the bottom of what actually happened, but that is more to try to figure out how to prevent the same scenario in the future. Finger pointing about wet market vs lab leak is of no use 4+ years on within this country. Yes, we can punish China in some way, but it has to be international (sanctions, restrictions on publishing of research, etc) and not like us declaring war or nonsense like that.

How it started was really not that important in how our country handled the virus. That also can be examined and lessons learned. The thing people leave out of their complaints of how it was handled is that the virus changed/mutated over time. There were things that were more effective with the original version vs the evolved virus. The vaccine was pretty effective at the beginning then the virus changed and got around that protection. It still was highly effective at preventing death, but people screamed that it didn’t work and why bother getting it? So frustrating that people can’t understand that this virus was mutating in real time

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's stupid to burn public trust for arbitrary guidelines that have no basis in science. It was stupid to shut down a reasonable theory when all we had were theories anyway.

All this destroyed trust in institutions and frayed the public cohesion.

Please explain how speculating on the origins of the virus helped Americans in spring of 2020.
Did if affect developing treatments?
Did it help us getting a handle on testing and tracing?

Is there some rule that you can only think about one thing at a time? Do you frequently shut down thoughts or conversation that doesn't address the objective an inch from your face?

People process information differently. Present minded people are task-oriented, practical, solve the immediate problem types. The past can't be changed so it doesn't matter and the future has too many variables for them.

Past-oriented people are methodical, relentless, detail-oriented and dig into all the facts to understand why something occurred. If you don't understand history, you are doomed to repeat it.

Future oriented people are good at speculation of current situations and imagining possible outcomes of different paths.

There is value to all approaches. There is no reason we couldn't both investigate amd speculate about the origin of the virus that upended our society AND have people focused on the practical tasks of developing treatments.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It absolutely matters how it arrived and it’s just gaslighting by liberals to suggest otherwise.

What’s the gaslighting? People predicting “lab leak China virus!!!” in 2020 were throwing sh#t at the wall like monkeys, based on no hard evidence.

PP to mine. Suggesting that it “doesn’t matter” how the virus arrived. Of course it does! Millions died!

No hard evidence? The laboratory doing the research was in the exact same vicinity to where the virus first appeared. That wasn’t some random guess nor was it rocket science. “The year before the outbreak, the Wuhan institute, working with U.S. partners, had proposed creating viruses with SARS‑CoV‑2’s defining feature” - NYT. Read Alina Chan’s just published essay.

Where was the evidence for a naturally occurring virus? No animal reservoir was found months and months of looking.

Hey dum dum!
At the time. It didn’t EFFING MATTER.
Cat was out of the bag. Horse was out of the barn. Train had left the station.
No lives were being saved with that knowledge AT THAT TIME.
Unless knowing how it arrived affected treatment? Or testing? Creating a vaccine?
None of those things were dependent on finding the cause.
China sucks though. No argument there.

China told the US that hydroxychloroquine was working for them. Did you know that?

WMD in Iraq
Epstein killed himself
No UFOs for 80 years
Hunter laptop fake
Russian collusion


Covid came from a bat

Anonymous wrote:And so….what?

The CCP is never going to cooperate. Labs will continue to study novel viruses as part of efforts to understand biological agents/cures/weapons/etc.

Even if the lab leak is right….what does it change? Nothing. Millions still died, no country was prepared, no one is getting reparations from China.

Our policies regarding working with China perhaps?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's stupid to burn public trust for arbitrary guidelines that have no basis in science. It was stupid to shut down a reasonable theory when all we had were theories anyway.

All this destroyed trust in institutions and frayed the public cohesion.

Please explain how speculating on the origins of the virus helped Americans in spring of 2020.
Did if affect developing treatments?
Did it help us getting a handle on testing and tracing?

China accidentally drops a nuke on a US city killing 1,000,000 Americans. Please tell me why knowing the origin of whom accidentally dropped the nuke matters and why it'd be of any relevance during the aftermath of the destruction?


Your logic is truly absurd. At a minimum, if China conducted high risk research with way to lax oversight (e.g..doing this kind of research on a BSL2 lab), there are many actions the world can take. For example, maybe scientific journals should blacklist all Chinese research going forward from publication. Perhaps sanctions can be put into place on all scientific equipment and supplies manufactured from other countries that are trying to be sold in China. There SHOULD be consequences for gross negligence that leads to 25,000,000 deaths.

The craziest part is that this isn't even the first time a virus has leaked from a state run virology lab in China. The original SARS virus also escaped one of their labs a long time ago and infected people. How many millions of deaths and trillions of dollars in blown up economies should the world tolerate until it concludes that China cannot be trusted with things like risky viral research?

I agree with some of your points but until America pays its debts to China, we are not in the position to do much about it.

China owns less than 7% of all outstanding US public debt. The vaaaast majority of public debt is owned by Americans, American institutions, and the US govt itself. China's ownership of US debt is a moot point. Hell, even Japan owns more US debt than China.

China can’t be trusted. As one pp says “China gonna China”. Left and right agree that as a country/government/state, China is sketchy as hell. Why do we owe them ANYTHING?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's stupid to burn public trust for arbitrary guidelines that have no basis in science. It was stupid to shut down a reasonable theory when all we had were theories anyway.

All this destroyed trust in institutions and frayed the public cohesion.

Please explain how speculating on the origins of the virus helped Americans in spring of 2020.
Did if affect developing treatments?
Did it help us getting a handle on testing and tracing?

China accidentally drops a nuke on a US city killing 1,000,000 Americans. Please tell me why knowing the origin of whom accidentally dropped the nuke matters and why it'd be of any relevance during the aftermath of the destruction?


Your logic is truly absurd. At a minimum, if China conducted high risk research with way to lax oversight (e.g..doing this kind of research on a BSL2 lab), there are many actions the world can take. For example, maybe scientific journals should blacklist all Chinese research going forward from publication. Perhaps sanctions can be put into place on all scientific equipment and supplies manufactured from other countries that are trying to be sold in China. There SHOULD be consequences for gross negligence that leads to 25,000,000 deaths.

The craziest part is that this isn't even the first time a virus has leaked from a state run virology lab in China. The original SARS virus also escaped one of their labs a long time ago and infected people. How many millions of deaths and trillions of dollars in blown up economies should the world tolerate until it concludes that China cannot be trusted with things like risky viral research?

Because it didn't just affect the U.S., moron. Millions of Chinese people were killed too so your analogy doesn't hold. A better analogy would be China intentionally setting off nukes in China and allowing the nuclear radiation to float over the U.S.

If it was lax oversight, then let's tighten it procedures so this doesn't happen again. Let's also prefund research into vaccines from the next most likely viruses to jump to humans as well as the manufacturing capacity to scale these things up. And Democrats pushed back on the initial story because of the myriad of lies and conspiracy theories surrounding COVID and the Trump administration. He had no credibility because of this and also because he was pushing scapegoating Asian people as well as "blue cities" instead of dealing with the fallout. If Trump had been consistently honest and truthful, I think the reaction would've been much different. Oh, and if he had just let the experts do their job, he'd probably still be President.

Thanks for reiterating my point, dumbazz.


The Chinese state potentially conducted research with such gross incompentce it less to the deaths of 25,000,000 people.

And morons like you think there should be no consequences from the world to China. And remember the joke WHO that tried to claim China had very little to with it and was acting as a mouthpiece for the Chinese state the whole time? Yeah, maybe an entire organization like the WHO needs to be burned to the ground like everyone said because they were gaslighting the world help China tying to deflect their role in potentially starting the pandemic. What good is WHO to the world if they're just going to lie to people the next pandemic?

I'm pretty sure Pete Townshend had nothing to do with covering up the true origin of Covid-19. This assertion is ridiculous.