Anonymous
Post 05/17/2024 22:46     Subject: Re:How to work with Gen Z minority woman employee
Anonymous wrote:I will try to act like we are in a completely flat organization and see how that goes.


Terrible idea if this is OP.

Do your job and manage her work. Stop trying to change her personality or to make her like you.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2024 21:49     Subject: Re:How to work with Gen Z minority woman employee
Anonymous wrote:I really was more interested in helping her and me be a better team than documenting issues. Coaching help for working with people like this to help them be a good employee and get along better in a hierarchical working environment while still giving them authority over their work. Was looking for resources on how best to talk to people that are more independent and headstrong like this who are subordinates.


That you don't see her as a likely threat and lawsuit in the making, naming you and the company, is troubling, OP. You need therapy to figure out the roots of your belief that we can change other people and that seeming weak and delusional is a good approach to management or any other relationship.

You are NEVER going to be a good team and you must document and speak to your boss and HR, for the company's sake if not your own.

She has contempt for you, the foundation of coaching or mentoring is mutual respect. You will NEVER have that from her, she thinks she can assign YOU work. Get real.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2024 21:43     Subject: How to work with Gen Z minority woman employee
What have you done to be untrustworthy?

What did you do to her to make her act like that with you?

Were you being passive aggressive??
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2024 21:37     Subject: How to work with Gen Z minority woman employee
Go retire boomer
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2024 21:34     Subject: How to work with Gen Z minority woman employee
Anonymous wrote:OP, I've worked with individuals like this. They're emotionally immature and have been around people who have normalized this type of interaction. She needs to outgrow it. I agree that you're probably being dismissed as a typical white lady and as an authority figure. Be kind but also don't be overly nice. She's mistaking professionalism and lack of confrontation for being weak. If she tries to tell you to do her work, let her know that this is part of her job and you need it done by "x." Said politely and kindly. You're in charge, OP. It's ok to be in charge. And if she doesn't do her assigned work, she gets fired.


This, OP. She thinks you are weak. I had to stop being overly nice and friendly to subordinates for this reason. She thinks she can assign YOU work. And you want to appease more?

Stop trying to avoid any direct management. If that was you posting you will pretend you are in a flat hierarchy, that is exactly the WRONG tactic for someone like this.

Put as much as possible in writing and reiterate conversations in an email that you cc your boss on.
Be clear and straightforward and give deadlines.

She is very likely to sue at some point. Talk to your boss and HR about issues and how to document. When she sues you will be named. Stop acting like you want to make her your bestie or to transform her into a collaborative employee. You cannot change other people. This weak response is likely rooted in something in your background, work that out with a therapist, not this woman.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2024 20:32     Subject: How to work with Gen Z minority woman employee
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP, you won't be able to manage her until you manage yourself. You define yourself as "traditional" and spend a lot of time ruminating on HER worldview and HER personality. Focus on her work ethic and only that. Manage her/mentor her. Tell her to put her phone away, explain hierarchies.

Don't assume in her first real job that she knows all the etiquettes. She may also feel the intensity with which you clearly dislike and disrespect her. Your post oozes with it.




Agreed. She doesn't know the etiquette. Not taking it personally but it does get tiring. I'd like to do something to move the interactions in a more positive way. She's definitely an idealist and that can be a good thing if it's directed positively.

A lot of young people want to make a difference in the world. I get that. I just don't want to but heads all the time. How do you encourage positivity without constant rebellion? are there resources to review on how to deal with young headstrong employees?


You are not going to change her personality or interpersonal style, OP. Protecting yourself and your company LEGALLY is where your focus needs to be. Stop wishing she was different, we can't change other people. She is not a good fit. Let things play out, hopefully in a way that does not give her grounds for a lawsuit naming you. Put as much in writing as possible re: your interactions to create a record and let HR and your boss know how things are going.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2024 20:26     Subject: Re:How to work with Gen Z minority woman employee
Anonymous wrote:I really was more interested in helping her and me be a better team than documenting issues. Coaching help for working with people like this to help them be a good employee and get along better in a hierarchical working environment while still giving them authority over their work. Was looking for resources on how best to talk to people that are more independent and headstrong like this who are subordinates.


I'd be more concerned with documenting things up the chain in the event she sues the company and names you. She doesn't seemingly like or respect you and will likely never see you as a "mentor" figure, so drop that idea, OP.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2024 20:14     Subject: How to work with Gen Z minority woman employee
I hired someone like this. She had a great interview, but then from day 1 on the job, she objected to being trained, to particular people who trained her and didn't want to do some tasks that were part of the job. She wrote her manager long emails about her objections which she addressed. We let her go on probation because she didn't do the job. She sued us for discrimination and we won. I don't know what she expected or wanted. I felt like she was young, naive and mistaken about how far you can get with lawsuits. I have heard other young people talk in these terms, like everything is a symptom of discrimination or a hostile workplace and all they have to do is say it's so. It's a lot harder to prove than they know, and moreover, if there really were a case, we didn't take it lightly.

OP, be careful what you say, do and write and document your conversations and anything reported to you.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2024 19:56     Subject: How to work with Gen Z minority woman employee
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think making this about her demographics might be a mistake here. I've had new employees pushback across demographics, the key is to set clear boundaries and expectations and enforce them. There's also an extent that you respect someone's autonomy when appropriate and avoid micromanaging. If you're struggling on a particular issue or want some guidance on where the line is for your organization you should speak to your boss. For me, finding that boundary line one of the hardest aspects of management when I first took it on.


The only reason I bring up demographics is because it was in all the work she submitted for the job application so clearly she thinks it defines her and is her worldview. There are plenty of minorities at my workplace where this doesn't define them at all.


I'm going out on a limb here. OP is the problem. She is a 'Karen' of sorts that isn't get the deferential experience she thinks she deserves based on title, experience, or even color. That's why she titled her post that way. She doesn't like this person because she does have a world view that doesn't center OP. Boo-hoo. Hopefully, retirement is just around the corner for you.


+1

OP is a Karen. She's a Karen at best, actually. She might as well have used the word "uppity." And if she keeps it up, it won't be retirement that is around the corner.


Well you went and used the word "Karen" so you're not really the one to police the tone of anyone. Even if you don't like older women in the workforce you do need to find a way to work with people you don't like or don't look like you. This is pretty basic life skill stuff. People often learn the hard way in their first job.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2024 19:52     Subject: How to work with Gen Z minority woman employee
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I think making this about her demographics might be a mistake here. I've had new employees pushback across demographics, the key is to set clear boundaries and expectations and enforce them. There's also an extent that you respect someone's autonomy when appropriate and avoid micromanaging. If you're struggling on a particular issue or want some guidance on where the line is for your organization you should speak to your boss. For me, finding that boundary line one of the hardest aspects of management when I first took it on.


The only reason I bring up demographics is because it was in all the work she submitted for the job application so clearly she thinks it defines her and is her worldview. There are plenty of minorities at my workplace where this doesn't define them at all.


I'm going out on a limb here. OP is the problem. She is a 'Karen' of sorts that isn't get the deferential experience she thinks she deserves based on title, experience, or even color. That's why she titled her post that way. She doesn't like this person because she does have a world view that doesn't center OP. Boo-hoo. Hopefully, retirement is just around the corner for you.


+1

OP is a Karen. She's a Karen at best, actually. She might as well have used the word "uppity." And if she keeps it up, it won't be retirement that is around the corner.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2024 19:45     Subject: How to work with Gen Z minority woman employee
Anonymous wrote:HR Leader/Executive Coach here...

Take her to lunch 1:1 to get to know her. Ask her questions about how she believes the job she took with your company supports her longer term goal. Ask her how she believes you can support her being successful while she is working for you. Ask how she likes to receive feedback. Ask her for feedback.

Ask about her hobbies, future vacation destinations and other non-intrusive questions to learn about her apart from work.

Describe your expectations, for clarity. This might be important because you said someone else hired her and placed her on your team so you likely didn't get the chance to discuss this during the interview process.
Tell her that you look forward to having a great working relationship.

You're her manager so you have to keep it professional, but make it a bit more friendly with hope that will make her a little less rigid in taking on work, etc. We all work a little harder when we are working for someone we like. It's early days so be proactive in setting up a strong working relationship.

I would not go alone. You need someone else there to be a witness.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2024 18:46     Subject: How to work with Gen Z minority woman employee
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:As the supervisor, develop a set of clear expectations in writing and share with the entire team, so as not to look like you're singling her out. But on those expectations, include the things she has been doing that you want to change -- e.g., no phones during meetings, behaving professionally and appropriately in the office, channeling dissent through the right channels up instead of laterally, completing work in an independent and timely manner, etc. After you've set up this framework, tailor it to her individual expectations given her inexperience. Then track her progress against it and have 1:1 meetings.

She sounds like trouble. Sorry OP.


I hate when supervisors do this. If everyone is doing what they are supposed to be doing except for one person, but you issue directives to everyone, that just says that you don't have the balls to deal with a problematic employee directly. If one individual employee is doing things you don't like, then that personSHOULD be singled out. You don't need to chastise everyone.


That’s good management. Management is not in some pissing contest over balls with entry levelers. Management is making sure nobody can ever say they were targeted or singled out.
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2024 18:38     Subject: How to work with Gen Z minority woman employee
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP - this is a tough spot for you. And a potentially dangerous one. If you make this about her race (which you shouldn't, obviously) even in the hope of trying to figure out her world view, you put yourself in jeopardy. You need to focus exclusively on performance.

FWIW, I occasionally ruminate on what a disaster of an employee i was straight out of school. Smart, but undisciplined, anti-authoritarian, and smug. I thought I knew best and was reluctant to take direction. And I worked very inefficiently. Some people were more patient than others, but what finally snapped me out of it was somebody laying down the line and telling me I needed to accomplish X by open of business the next day, no exceptions. I stayed at the office until 2pm trying to get my code to work. And something clicked that I wasn't entitled to employment, I was there to earn it.

I wasn't a model or a minority and there was none of that complexity for me. But the path to success was the same. Somebody - sometimes multiple people - explaining to me in clear terms what the expectations were.

Keep it simple and uncomplicated. Focus on the work and don't get distracted by social elements. That's the fastest way to success for her and the least risky way for you.


In many ways this was me too, but the gen x leadership was slow to adapt in the mid 2000s… it made new college graduates like me who understood technology a bit impatient and smug. I think we were inefficient because we were working in outdated systems and processes that were inherently inefficient and we understood things could be a lot more efficient. I’d say I simmered a bit but the folks who are in their 50s and 60s modernized.

For this example, it is useful to reference how the world was when you graduated, how you fit in, where leadership was in your first job, and how everything shifted in the years after… it will likely reveal that no matter how much of an outlier she seems, some parts of her approach, if they’re indeed common to her generation, will seep into the mainstream eventually…


This is every generation. I am Gen X and had to work with older Gen X/ Boomers who did not want to learn new technology. If I sent them a spreadsheet they refused to look at it unless I printed it out. Gen Z is not unique and the next generation will come along sneering and looking down on them as well.



I am 62 and every single day you use things I helped create. In fact the biggest leaps forward in IT was around 1984-1999. If you have a mortgage, broker dealer account, bank account all things I worked on.

I even did Flash Trading and Crypto. Right now working on building out AI enhancements in banking.

My kids know Tic Toc and Instagram and Spotify and think they are PC experts.



I can tell you’re an engineer because you think one data point is proof that boomers don’t suck at technology.


That’s multiple data points
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2024 18:25     Subject: How to work with Gen Z minority woman employee
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP - this is a tough spot for you. And a potentially dangerous one. If you make this about her race (which you shouldn't, obviously) even in the hope of trying to figure out her world view, you put yourself in jeopardy. You need to focus exclusively on performance.

FWIW, I occasionally ruminate on what a disaster of an employee i was straight out of school. Smart, but undisciplined, anti-authoritarian, and smug. I thought I knew best and was reluctant to take direction. And I worked very inefficiently. Some people were more patient than others, but what finally snapped me out of it was somebody laying down the line and telling me I needed to accomplish X by open of business the next day, no exceptions. I stayed at the office until 2pm trying to get my code to work. And something clicked that I wasn't entitled to employment, I was there to earn it.

I wasn't a model or a minority and there was none of that complexity for me. But the path to success was the same. Somebody - sometimes multiple people - explaining to me in clear terms what the expectations were.

Keep it simple and uncomplicated. Focus on the work and don't get distracted by social elements. That's the fastest way to success for her and the least risky way for you.


In many ways this was me too, but the gen x leadership was slow to adapt in the mid 2000s… it made new college graduates like me who understood technology a bit impatient and smug. I think we were inefficient because we were working in outdated systems and processes that were inherently inefficient and we understood things could be a lot more efficient. I’d say I simmered a bit but the folks who are in their 50s and 60s modernized.

For this example, it is useful to reference how the world was when you graduated, how you fit in, where leadership was in your first job, and how everything shifted in the years after… it will likely reveal that no matter how much of an outlier she seems, some parts of her approach, if they’re indeed common to her generation, will seep into the mainstream eventually…


This is every generation. I am Gen X and had to work with older Gen X/ Boomers who did not want to learn new technology. If I sent them a spreadsheet they refused to look at it unless I printed it out. Gen Z is not unique and the next generation will come along sneering and looking down on them as well.



I am 62 and every single day you use things I helped create. In fact the biggest leaps forward in IT was around 1984-1999. If you have a mortgage, broker dealer account, bank account all things I worked on.

I even did Flash Trading and Crypto. Right now working on building out AI enhancements in banking.

My kids know Tic Toc and Instagram and Spotify and think they are PC experts.



I can tell you’re an engineer because you think one data point is proof that boomers don’t suck at technology.


I will provide a second data point. They do. If they can't print it, they can't read it
Anonymous
Post 05/17/2024 18:25     Subject: How to work with Gen Z minority woman employee
Request tasks be done in writing and be very specific and then provide a due date. Do not include something like you can come to me with questions. Copy your team members as needed. Follow up when things aren’t done. If it’s chronic document and escalate. Avoid having any personal conversations with her and only speak to her in meetings when others are there just say hello and wait.

Don’t try and befriend her it won’t go well. Be polite abut not overly so.

Remember even if other people you work with outwardly appear to like and appreciate her input they are faking it. She is annoying and doesn’t know basic office etiquette.

Also there is this whole phenomena of Gen Z TikTokers who give out “career” advice. While some is good, A lot of it is clearly from people who have no career.