Anonymous
Post 05/06/2024 09:26     Subject: Re:Fiancé wants a church wedding
Anonymous wrote:BTDT. Clearly you have some options- (1) roll over. They will demand to baptize the kids too, first communion, the whole nine yards. Are you going to be able to stand aside & let them do this, when it is your baby/kid? Try to imagine. Some people can, some can’t. For me, it was out of the question. 2) hold very firm. Will cause problems with the family and your DH will resent you.

As a non religious person who has BTDT with the Catholic relatives and been harped on about religion my whole life I present option 3: take “cover” in some type of liberal church or “church”. A lot of people do this. Find some excuse that you need to be married there and attend there- it is close to your house, you have friends who go there, you love the music program or community service or want to send future kid to their school. Think of something- Literally anything. Get married there, attend services maybe 2 times a year or participate in the volunteer program or whatever. When you have kids do whatever baby blessings or baptism ritual they offer. It provides cover and face saving on the ILs end “welllll at least grand baby is being raised Christian blah blah blah” “wellll at least they are being married in a church” blah blah and your future DH will see it is a compromise. He clearly does not care about religion. Not saying your ILs will exactly love this (they won’t- they want Catholic)- but they will grudgingly accept it.

That is your best choice here…take it from someone who has btdt


Why not just do the Catholic in this case? Why go out of your way to be more difficult, if you don't care anyway, to avoid the Catholic rituals? The husband won't want to go along with this farce when he's Catholic and there is a better alternative.
Anonymous
Post 05/06/2024 09:23     Subject: Re:Fiancé wants a church wedding
BTDT. Clearly you have some options- (1) roll over. They will demand to baptize the kids too, first communion, the whole nine yards. Are you going to be able to stand aside & let them do this, when it is your baby/kid? Try to imagine. Some people can, some can’t. For me, it was out of the question. 2) hold very firm. Will cause problems with the family and your DH will resent you.

As a non religious person who has BTDT with the Catholic relatives and been harped on about religion my whole life I present option 3: take “cover” in some type of liberal church or “church”. A lot of people do this. Find some excuse that you need to be married there and attend there- it is close to your house, you have friends who go there, you love the music program or community service or want to send future kid to their school. Think of something- Literally anything. Get married there, attend services maybe 2 times a year or participate in the volunteer program or whatever. When you have kids do whatever baby blessings or baptism ritual they offer. It provides cover and face saving on the ILs end “welllll at least grand baby is being raised Christian blah blah blah” “wellll at least they are being married in a church” blah blah and your future DH will see it is a compromise. He clearly does not care about religion. Not saying your ILs will exactly love this (they won’t- they want Catholic)- but they will grudgingly accept it.

That is your best choice here…take it from someone who has btdt
Anonymous
Post 05/06/2024 08:27     Subject: Fiancé wants a church wedding
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The non-Catholic spouse lying about agreeing to raise your kids to be Catholic is grounds for an invalid marriage. If he marries outside of the church at your beautiful venue without a dispensation, that too would be an invalid marriage. Either way you do it, you guys will not be married in the eyes of the Catholic church. This might not mean anything to you right now, but it is a guarantee that there will be problems in the future. Especially as children start showing up.

You should really, really reconsider getting married to each other. You might think you are in love, but you are not a good fit at all.


The non-Catholic party no longer needs to agree to raise the kids Catholic. The Catholic party has to agree to do their best and there ought to be a founded hope it will occur.

Interesting, that must be a very recent change. Still, if OP’s fiancè lies about intending on raising his own kids Catholic (which OP seems to think he’s willing to do), then it’s still an invalid marriage.

I suspect the more likely outcome is that he *will* get the kids baptized, and this will cause more problems for OP who is really, really against this whole religion thing. And they’ll divorce, and he’ll get the annulment because the marriage was never there in the first place.

Better to end things here and now.
Anonymous
Post 05/06/2024 08:13     Subject: Fiancé wants a church wedding
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Op, does your fiance want to raise kids to be Catholic?


OP here. No. He went to church here and there growing up and went to catholic school but he’s not religious. He hasn’t been to church except with in years. We do not plan to raise our kids in any religion.


Have you actually discussed this? He folded pretty quick with pressure from the family.


OP here. He assumed we would get married in a church since everyone he knows has been married in a church. He was shocked when I told him I didn’t want to, and said all of hai family is expecting us to be married in a church.


But you said you already have a venue booked for reception and can have the ceremony there. Did you do all that on your own?
Anonymous
Post 05/06/2024 06:54     Subject: Fiancé wants a church wedding
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Op, does your fiance want to raise kids to be Catholic?


OP here. No. He went to church here and there growing up and went to catholic school but he’s not religious. He hasn’t been to church except with in years. We do not plan to raise our kids in any religion.


Have you actually discussed this? He folded pretty quick with pressure from the family.


OP here. He assumed we would get married in a church since everyone he knows has been married in a church. He was shocked when I told him I didn’t want to, and said all of hai family is expecting us to be married in a church.


I can almost guarantee he will be equally shocked when you balk at your MIL’s gift of a Christening dress.
Anonymous
Post 05/06/2024 06:35     Subject: Fiancé wants a church wedding
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Op, does your fiance want to raise kids to be Catholic?


OP here. No. He went to church here and there growing up and went to catholic school but he’s not religious. He hasn’t been to church except with in years. We do not plan to raise our kids in any religion.


Have you actually discussed this? He folded pretty quick with pressure from the family.


OP here. He assumed we would get married in a church since everyone he knows has been married in a church. He was shocked when I told him I didn’t want to, and said all of hai family is expecting us to be married in a church.


We rented the University of Maryland Chapel for our wedding. Had never set foot in that place before, just went to school there. You can find churches where they’ll happily take your money for an hour or two for a wedding. You don’t have to jump through the hoops like a Catholic wedding. I know of at least one outdoor chapel if you wanted an outdoor wedding and to satisfy your fiancés wish for a church wedding. There are some around. I’d think the fair compromise for both is a non-denominational church. He gets his church wedding and you don’t have to do the whole catholic thing for no reason.
Anonymous
Post 05/06/2024 02:48     Subject: Fiancé wants a church wedding
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Op, does your fiance want to raise kids to be Catholic?


OP here. No. He went to church here and there growing up and went to catholic school but he’s not religious. He hasn’t been to church except with in years. We do not plan to raise our kids in any religion.


Have you actually discussed this? He folded pretty quick with pressure from the family.


OP here. He assumed we would get married in a church since everyone he knows has been married in a church. He was shocked when I told him I didn’t want to, and said all of hai family is expecting us to be married in a church.
Anonymous
Post 05/06/2024 00:36     Subject: Fiancé wants a church wedding
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Op, does your fiance want to raise kids to be Catholic?


OP here. No. He went to church here and there growing up and went to catholic school but he’s not religious. He hasn’t been to church except with in years. We do not plan to raise our kids in any religion.


Have you actually discussed this? He folded pretty quick with pressure from the family.
Anonymous
Post 05/06/2024 00:32     Subject: Fiancé wants a church wedding
Anonymous wrote:Op, does your fiance want to raise kids to be Catholic?


OP here. No. He went to church here and there growing up and went to catholic school but he’s not religious. He hasn’t been to church except with in years. We do not plan to raise our kids in any religion.
Anonymous
Post 05/05/2024 23:26     Subject: Fiancé wants a church wedding
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You both don't need to be Catholic. One of you should be and also registered at the church or a church that his family is registered at. You can't just waltz into any church and demand a wedding ceremony. You will need to be registered parishioners, or use his family church, and complete the wedding prep (Pre-Cana), and just jump through all the hoops.

But your post is very off putting all about you, and what you want. You're supposed to be getting married, it's not all about you.

No. One of them must be Catholic to be married in a Catholic church.


Well, the fiancé is. But the point in this case is that the fiancé is Catholic enough to meet the criteria. But he is not practicing and might say he's not Catholic. But if he was raised Catholic he's been baptized, had his Communion and is confirmed. As far as the Church is concerned, he's Catholic.

Yes, the fiancé is Catholic. The point you’re ignoring is the first pp said one should be Catholic. There’s no should about it with the Catholic church. That’s a must.


I said that. Then I clarified. I said "should" because most people getting married in the Church are there because they want to be, they are in good standing. The fiancé is Catholic, being born and raised, but seems now to be lapsed. If you're lapsed should you still consider yourself Catholic?

You are making zero sense. There is no should about it with a Catholic wedding. It’s a must or there’s no Catholic wedding.


He is a Catholic in the eyes of the church. We know this. But, how he identifies is another thing. Which goes back to OP's point that should they just go along with it for appeasement or is it a mockery? They can have the Catholic wedding, but should they?

That’s all that matters if he wants to be married in a Catholic church. What’s a mockery is OP’s suggestion of lying.


You act as if it's so easy to get married in the church. An indifferent, non-practicing couple still has to meet certain criteria. Maybe it's church attendance, pre-cana, meetings with the priest, good standing, before they will be allowed to book their date. It varies. It's not just "does the one person meet the basic criteria". Sounds like they already have a date and venue for their non religious wedding. Trying to plan a Catholic ceremony into an existing timeline might be a huge hurdle.


All excellent points. Priest will say we can schedule you in a year’s time, contingent upon all prep being completed.
Anonymous
Post 05/05/2024 21:46     Subject: Fiancé wants a church wedding
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You both don't need to be Catholic. One of you should be and also registered at the church or a church that his family is registered at. You can't just waltz into any church and demand a wedding ceremony. You will need to be registered parishioners, or use his family church, and complete the wedding prep (Pre-Cana), and just jump through all the hoops.

But your post is very off putting all about you, and what you want. You're supposed to be getting married, it's not all about you.

No. One of them must be Catholic to be married in a Catholic church.


Well, the fiancé is. But the point in this case is that the fiancé is Catholic enough to meet the criteria. But he is not practicing and might say he's not Catholic. But if he was raised Catholic he's been baptized, had his Communion and is confirmed. As far as the Church is concerned, he's Catholic.

Yes, the fiancé is Catholic. The point you’re ignoring is the first pp said one should be Catholic. There’s no should about it with the Catholic church. That’s a must.


I said that. Then I clarified. I said "should" because most people getting married in the Church are there because they want to be, they are in good standing. The fiancé is Catholic, being born and raised, but seems now to be lapsed. If you're lapsed should you still consider yourself Catholic?

You are making zero sense. There is no should about it with a Catholic wedding. It’s a must or there’s no Catholic wedding.


He is a Catholic in the eyes of the church. We know this. But, how he identifies is another thing. Which goes back to OP's point that should they just go along with it for appeasement or is it a mockery? They can have the Catholic wedding, but should they?

That’s all that matters if he wants to be married in a Catholic church. What’s a mockery is OP’s suggestion of lying.


You act as if it's so easy to get married in the church. An indifferent, non-practicing couple still has to meet certain criteria. Maybe it's church attendance, pre-cana, meetings with the priest, good standing, before they will be allowed to book their date. It varies. It's not just "does the one person meet the basic criteria". Sounds like they already have a date and venue for their non religious wedding. Trying to plan a Catholic ceremony into an existing timeline might be a huge hurdle.
Anonymous
Post 05/05/2024 21:39     Subject: Fiancé wants a church wedding
Anonymous wrote:The marriage should center around the couple and their beliefs. If he’s pushing for a church wedding for his family, I’m sure a baptism will follow.


It doesn't seem like OP and her fiancé have had many discussions about this at all. Have they talked about religion and how they plan to raise their kids? She may think it's a non issue but many people change their tune when they have kids. They will want that baptism for sure.
Anonymous
Post 05/05/2024 21:19     Subject: Fiancé wants a church wedding
By the by, I don’t think the question of religion is at all irrelevant to OP. She very clearly has a dream venue in mind and it is not a Church. Interestingly, if the prospective husband was actually concerned with canonical issues, they could request and very likely get a dispensation to have a valid Catholic wedding somewhere other than a Catholic Church (including the dream venue). The problem seems to be that the prospective husband/his family are more attached to the externals of a “church wedding” and OP can’t have her preferred venue if they have theirs.
Anonymous
Post 05/05/2024 21:17     Subject: Fiancé wants a church wedding
The marriage should center around the couple and their beliefs. If he’s pushing for a church wedding for his family, I’m sure a baptism will follow.
Anonymous
Post 05/05/2024 21:14     Subject: Fiancé wants a church wedding
Anonymous wrote:The non-Catholic spouse lying about agreeing to raise your kids to be Catholic is grounds for an invalid marriage. If he marries outside of the church at your beautiful venue without a dispensation, that too would be an invalid marriage. Either way you do it, you guys will not be married in the eyes of the Catholic church. This might not mean anything to you right now, but it is a guarantee that there will be problems in the future. Especially as children start showing up.

You should really, really reconsider getting married to each other. You might think you are in love, but you are not a good fit at all.


The non-Catholic party no longer needs to agree to raise the kids Catholic. The Catholic party has to agree to do their best and there ought to be a founded hope it will occur.