Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just on the olympiad insider website, how is it possible for so many of their students to make AIME and even usamo? Is the competition world turning into pay to win? Of course, you can study yourself or with aops class, but it seems you are at a great disadvantage without a private tutor...

im talking about
https://www.olympiadinsider.com/tutoring

Anyone who studies for long enough can make AIME.

This statement is absolutely not true.

That's like saying anyone that practices enough can go play D1 college football on scholarship.
(AIME qualifiers capped at 6000-7000/yr, D1 football scholarship players ~20,000)

Just like sports, you need to be
1) naturally gifted (or at least way above average)
2) have the support around you to guide your development
3) put in the time & effort

This. Let's be realistic. At schools like Longfellow, there's a pretty intense math club that has over a hundred kids try out. Many of those kids are taking outside math classes and doing other competitions. They also likely have around 100 kids sit for the AMC10 tests. Last year, only 3 kids qualified for AIME. If it were that easy to tiger-parent your kid into qualifying for AIME, then Longfellow would have had a lot more than 3 qualifiers last year.

Kids taking the AMC tests are highly self selected. Many of them put in a lot of time practicing, and many are well supported by their school math club and outside enrichment classes. Only around 5% of these kids move on to the AIME.

As a parent of a child deeply interested in math, I encourage any kid who is interested in math to try it out.

However, I also found many parents who are pushing kids because "they are too young to know if they are good at it, and only if they try they would find out".

My own experience is that many more kids would have made it to AIME if there was less parent involvement. At least two kids I know were turned off/burned out because they were pushed too much. A child told me "it was fun until my mom got involved".

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just on the olympiad insider website, how is it possible for so many of their students to make AIME and even usamo? Is the competition world turning into pay to win? Of course, you can study yourself or with aops class, but it seems you are at a great disadvantage without a private tutor...

im talking about
https://www.olympiadinsider.com/tutoring

Anyone who studies for long enough can make AIME.

This statement is absolutely not true.

That's like saying anyone that practices enough can go play D1 college football on scholarship.
(AIME qualifiers capped at 6000-7000/yr, D1 football scholarship players ~20,000)

Just like sports, you need to be
1) naturally gifted (or at least way above average)
2) have the support around you to guide your development
3) put in the time & effort

This. Let's be realistic. At schools like Longfellow, there's a pretty intense math club that has over a hundred kids try out. Many of those kids are taking outside math classes and doing other competitions. They also likely have around 100 kids sit for the AMC10 tests. Last year, only 3 kids qualified for AIME. If it were that easy to tiger-parent your kid into qualifying for AIME, then Longfellow would have had a lot more than 3 qualifiers last year.

Kids taking the AMC tests are highly self selected. Many of them put in a lot of time practicing, and many are well supported by their school math club and outside enrichment classes. Only around 5% of these kids move on to the AIME.

[quote=Anonymous]
90 on AMC 10 in grade 7 is definitely on track for USAMO contention.
[/quote]
Not even remotely true, unless the kid makes some amazing leaps in the next few years. Kids who are on track for USAMO are getting DHR or close to it on AMC 10 in 7th grade. All of the kids I know who've made USA(J)MO were qualifying for AIME by 5th or 6th grade. While a 90 in 7th grade is a strong score, the kids who will be in contention for USA(J)MO are on a completely different level.

PP's kid will be on track to qualify for AIME by 8th or 9th grade, though, which is great!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just on the olympiad insider website, how is it possible for so many of their students to make AIME and even usamo? Is the competition world turning into pay to win? Of course, you can study yourself or with aops class, but it seems you are at a great disadvantage without a private tutor...

im talking about
https://www.olympiadinsider.com/tutoring

Anyone who studies for long enough can make AIME.

This statement is absolutely not true.

That's like saying anyone that practices enough can go play D1 college football on scholarship.
(AIME qualifiers capped at 6000-7000/yr, D1 football scholarship players ~20,000)

Just like sports, you need to be
1) naturally gifted (or at least way above average)
2) have the support around you to guide your development
3) put in the time & effort

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]I was just on the olympiad insider website, how is it possible for so many of their students to make AIME and even usamo? Is the competition world turning into pay to win? Of course, you can study yourself or with aops class, but it seems you are at a great disadvantage without a private tutor...

im talking about
https://www.olympiadinsider.com/tutoring[/quote]

There are kids who enjoy math and study for math competitions starting at a young age. My kid started math competition classes and math competitions in 4th grade. He is in 7th grade now and tends to be in the 99th percentile for his age group. Math competitions focus on math in a different way than traditional math exams. More complex word problems were the first stop is even figuring out how to approach the problem and there tend to be a fast way that works and a slower way that works. The kids who participate in math competitions tend to be able to pick up the fast and right method, they complete more problems.

Think of it this way, there are a small number of kids that are in the pipe line for the higher level athletic programs. They are there because they have spent a large amount of time practicing and honing skills. They end up training at specialized gyms/programs. It is easier for math kids to work with specialized tutors because you can do it virtually now.

DS is probably seen as a long shot to go far with the AMC 12, he “only” scored a 90 on the AMC 10 as a 7th grader. There are a small number of kids in 7th grade who made the AIME so I hear from folks that he is behind the curve. We’ll see, he enjoys the competitions and is on several teams. He finds it fun.

Go to Youtube and look for the Mathcounts competition, it is a MS competition. The kids are very impressive. [/quote]

90 on AMC 10 in grade 7 is definitely on track for USAMO contention.

It takes a lot of work, though. And being naturally very speedy is sadly more important than knowing the material well.

Anonymous wrote:The more I think about it, the more I'm annoyed that some of you are determined to turn academic achievements into a product of privilege and thus easily dismissed.

For many sports or musical instruments, private coaching is essential. Yet, nobody views it as pay-to-win. Winning is still the product of the kid's natural ability and a ton of hard work, even when the coaching is flat out essential.

For math competitions, private coaching isn't necessary. Of the 10 kids I know who are at or at least reasonably close to AMO/JMO calibre, only one possibly has done private coaching. Even more than any other competitive activities, doing well in math contests is the result of innate ability and hard work. Why is there some huge effort to dismiss it as some sort of privileged, pay-to-win thing?

Sports and music are pay to play. Math is hard work AND pay to win.

Most of the top students don't need private coaching because they have either their own math professor parents, are at special events math schools like Proof School (not just magnet schools), attend paid afterschool / summer programs like AoPS, or are at schools like Blair or TJ where they have access to world-class talent volunteers in their club. Many have several of these advantages combined.
Kids "out of the loop" don't have that, and lag behind.

Anonymous wrote:I was just on the olympiad insider website, how is it possible for so many of their students to make AIME and even usamo? Is the competition world turning into pay to win? Of course, you can study yourself or with aops class, but it seems you are at a great disadvantage without a private tutor...

im talking about
https://www.olympiadinsider.com/tutoring

Nowhere in the site do they say how many students they have.

They could have 7 students, and 5 make AIME. They could also be lying, which is very common.

Anyone who studies for long enough can make AIME. The kids who get tutoring for it are looking for a small boost, so are already qualified. A tutor won't tutor you for something you aren't ready for. They'll tutor you for a different program/level.

The more I think about it, the more I'm annoyed that some of you are determined to turn academic achievements into a product of privilege and thus easily dismissed.

For many sports or musical instruments, private coaching is essential. Yet, nobody views it as pay-to-win. Winning is still the product of the kid's natural ability and a ton of hard work, even when the coaching is flat out essential.

For math competitions, private coaching isn't necessary. Of the 10 kids I know who are at or at least reasonably close to AMO/JMO calibre, only one possibly has done private coaching. Even more than any other competitive activities, doing well in math contests is the result of innate ability and hard work. Why is there some huge effort to dismiss it as some sort of privileged, pay-to-win thing?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was just on the olympiad insider website, how is it possible for so many of their students to make AIME and even usamo? Is the competition world turning into pay to win? Of course, you can study yourself or with aops class, but it seems you are at a great disadvantage without a private tutor...

im talking about
https://www.olympiadinsider.com/tutoring

of course paying for a tutor (especially elite tutors like the one you mentioned) is helpful. But it can only do so much. Just like buying a good hockey stick, or swim goggles, or bicycle, it is an investment that only pays off if your kid still works hard. Combined with a hardworking kid, it will lead to great results. In my opinion, a tutor is necessary but not sufficient in math contests. Without a tutor, your child will be stuck without guidance or following random advice threads written by other kids on aops or discord. Do your DC a favor and hire a tutor or coach.

I know 5 different kids who have made Mathcounts nationals as well as USAJMO. While all of them have taken AoPS or some other enrichment classes, none have had private tutors. It's not remotely necessary for highly successful math competition participants.

Anonymous wrote:I was just on the olympiad insider website, how is it possible for so many of their students to make AIME and even usamo? Is the competition world turning into pay to win? Of course, you can study yourself or with aops class, but it seems you are at a great disadvantage without a private tutor...

im talking about
https://www.olympiadinsider.com/tutoring

of course paying for a tutor (especially elite tutors like the one you mentioned) is helpful. But it can only do so much. Just like buying a good hockey stick, or swim goggles, or bicycle, it is an investment that only pays off if your kid still works hard. Combined with a hardworking kid, it will lead to great results. In my opinion, a tutor is necessary but not sufficient in math contests. Without a tutor, your child will be stuck without guidance or following random advice threads written by other kids on aops or discord. Do your DC a favor and hire a tutor or coach.

Pay, sorry typo

Yes, to a certain degree, everything is lay to win. But a tutor doesn’t take you all the way, they will teach you how to study, but your son will have to study himself if he wants to do well. Good luck!

Anonymous wrote:I was just on the olympiad insider website, how is it possible for so many of their students to make AIME and even usamo? Is the competition world turning into pay to win? Of course, you can study yourself or with aops class, but it seems you are at a great disadvantage without a private tutor...

im talking about
https://www.olympiadinsider.com/tutoring

It's definitely not pay-to-win. Tons of kids do paid competition math programs or get paid tutoring, but still don't qualify for AIME. Tons of kids do qualify for AIME or even USA(J)MO without a private tutor.

People marketing their tutoring services tend to exaggerate their results. Also, there is some degree of self selection in the people seeking private tutoring for math competitions.

Anonymous wrote:I was just on the olympiad insider website, how is it possible for so many of their students to make AIME and even usamo? Is the competition world turning into pay to win? Of course, you can study yourself or with aops class, but it seems you are at a great disadvantage without a private tutor...

im talking about
https://www.olympiadinsider.com/tutoring

There are kids who enjoy math and study for math competitions starting at a young age. My kid started math competition classes and math competitions in 4th grade. He is in 7th grade now and tends to be in the 99th percentile for his age group. Math competitions focus on math in a different way than traditional math exams. More complex word problems were the first stop is even figuring out how to approach the problem and there tend to be a fast way that works and a slower way that works. The kids who participate in math competitions tend to be able to pick up the fast and right method, they complete more problems.

Think of it this way, there are a small number of kids that are in the pipe line for the higher level athletic programs. They are there because they have spent a large amount of time practicing and honing skills. They end up training at specialized gyms/programs. It is easier for math kids to work with specialized tutors because you can do it virtually now.

DS is probably seen as a long shot to go far with the AMC 12, he “only” scored a 90 on the AMC 10 as a 7th grader. There are a small number of kids in 7th grade who made the AIME so I hear from folks that he is behind the curve. We’ll see, he enjoys the competitions and is on several teams. He finds it fun.

Go to Youtube and look for the Mathcounts competition, it is a MS competition. The kids are very impressive.

I was just on the olympiad insider website, how is it possible for so many of their students to make AIME and even usamo? Is the competition world turning into pay to win? Of course, you can study yourself or with aops class, but it seems you are at a great disadvantage without a private tutor...

im talking about
https://www.olympiadinsider.com/tutoring