Anonymous
04/27/2024 17:32
Subject: Do T20s actually matter?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Quality of the peer group is vastly different vs. non T20 IMO.
With holistic admissions and current preferences for athletes, first gen and pell grant eligible, this is not true, Lots if kids at T50 or even T75 who have stats for T20 but didn’t get in due to the aforementioned preferences, were hurt by average ecs, or college’s desire for geographical diversity.
The issue is do these kids ever get the jobs at Goldman Sachs, Blackstone, McKinsey, Bain in the numbers - on a per capita basis - compared to the top 25 schools?
The answer is they don’t. At least not yet. Maybe that will change in the next decade.
I would be extremely disappointed if my kids ended up at a Goldman or a Blackstone, etc., so I'd say opinions differ about the "quality" of a peer group that is gunning in that direction.
It is not just Goldman, Jane St, et al, it is better law schools(T14 matters for many goals), top research med schools(T25 research based med schools feed into top residencies: heads of departments in academic medicine come from T20 med disproportionally), and on and on. There are kids who are top intellect with big dreams who want all the doors open to the top of their field: elite universities and selective LACs open more doors.
It CAN be done sometimes from the good flagships, but it is a much harder and rarer path.
Exactly.
It’s just easier - all around and all careers - from a T20 etc.
I 💯 agree it doesn’t make it right - but that’s not the question or really the point. It’s the reality.
Anonymous
04/27/2024 17:20
Subject: Do T20s actually matter?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Quality of the peer group is vastly different vs. non T20 IMO.
With holistic admissions and current preferences for athletes, first gen and pell grant eligible, this is not true, Lots if kids at T50 or even T75 who have stats for T20 but didn’t get in due to the aforementioned preferences, were hurt by average ecs, or college’s desire for geographical diversity.
The issue is do these kids ever get the jobs at Goldman Sachs, Blackstone, McKinsey, Bain in the numbers - on a per capita basis - compared to the top 25 schools?
The answer is they don’t. At least not yet. Maybe that will change in the next decade.
I would be extremely disappointed if my kids ended up at a Goldman or a Blackstone, etc., so I'd say opinions differ about the "quality" of a peer group that is gunning in that direction.
It is not just Goldman, Jane St, et al, it is better law schools(T14 matters for many goals), top research med schools(T25 research based med schools feed into top residencies: heads of departments in academic medicine come from T20 med disproportionally), and on and on. There are kids who are top intellect with big dreams who want all the doors open to the top of their field: elite universities and selective LACs open more doors.
It CAN be done sometimes from the good flagships, but it is a much harder and rarer path.
Anonymous
04/27/2024 17:19
Subject: Do T20s actually matter?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Quality of the peer group is vastly different vs. non T20 IMO.
With holistic admissions and current preferences for athletes, first gen and pell grant eligible, this is not true, Lots if kids at T50 or even T75 who have stats for T20 but didn’t get in due to the aforementioned preferences, were hurt by average ecs, or college’s desire for geographical diversity.
The issue is do these kids ever get the jobs at Goldman Sachs, Blackstone, McKinsey, Bain in the numbers - on a per capita basis - compared to the top 25 schools?
The answer is they don’t. At least not yet. Maybe that will change in the next decade.
I would be extremely disappointed if my kids ended up at a Goldman or a Blackstone, etc., so I'd say opinions differ about the "quality" of a peer group that is gunning in that direction.
Too many people give this crappy stock answer. I assume your kid would at least want to have the option to turn one of these jobs down vs never even remotely considered.
For the life of me, I don’t know what for profit entity would pass your test…maybe Patagonia?
💯
I think ppl want to know that an expensive T20 education may eventually result in an annual salary potential greater then the total cost of the education. Not that the kid needs to actually take that type of job but at least have the option.
That is success.
Anonymous
04/27/2024 17:14
Subject: Do T20s actually matter?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Quality of the peer group is vastly different vs. non T20 IMO.
With holistic admissions and current preferences for athletes, first gen and pell grant eligible, this is not true, Lots if kids at T50 or even T75 who have stats for T20 but didn’t get in due to the aforementioned preferences, were hurt by average ecs, or college’s desire for geographical diversity.
The issue is do these kids ever get the jobs at Goldman Sachs, Blackstone, McKinsey, Bain in the numbers - on a per capita basis - compared to the top 25 schools?
The answer is they don’t. At least not yet. Maybe that will change in the next decade.
I would be extremely disappointed if my kids ended up at a Goldman or a Blackstone, etc., so I'd say opinions differ about the "quality" of a peer group that is gunning in that direction.
Too many people give this crappy stock answer. I assume your kid would at least want to have the option to turn one of these jobs down vs never even remotely considered.
For the life of me, I don’t know what for profit entity would pass your test…maybe Patagonia?
Anonymous
04/27/2024 17:09
Subject: Do T20s actually matter?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Quality of the peer group is vastly different vs. non T20 IMO.
With holistic admissions and current preferences for athletes, first gen and pell grant eligible, this is not true, Lots if kids at T50 or even T75 who have stats for T20 but didn’t get in due to the aforementioned preferences, were hurt by average ecs, or college’s desire for geographical diversity.
The issue is do these kids ever get the jobs at Goldman Sachs, Blackstone, McKinsey, Bain in the numbers - on a per capita basis - compared to the top 25 schools?
The answer is they don’t. At least not yet. Maybe that will change in the next decade.
I would be extremely disappointed if my kids ended up at a Goldman or a Blackstone, etc., so I'd say opinions differ about the "quality" of a peer group that is gunning in that direction.
Anonymous
04/27/2024 16:18
Subject: Do T20s actually matter?
And Cornell won't get you in other doors either
Anonymous
04/27/2024 16:06
Subject: Do T20s actually matter?
Anonymous wrote:I have had several bosses who would only hire T20 graduates. They openly said it. I thought it was a wrong policy, but I wasn’t the boss at the time.
+1
And it still happens….
These grads always get the benefit of the doubt. Doesn’t make it right, but yes it happens.
Sure they may hire others too, but a Cornell degree matters more than Maryland. Always.
Anonymous
04/27/2024 15:57
Subject: Do T20s actually matter?
I have had several bosses who would only hire T20 graduates. They openly said it. I thought it was a wrong policy, but I wasn’t the boss at the time.
Anonymous
04/27/2024 15:54
Subject: Do T20s actually matter?
No.
Anonymous
04/27/2024 15:52
Subject: Do T20s actually matter?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Quality of the peer group is vastly different vs. non T20 IMO.
This.
The networking. The connections. The opportunities.
I went to a T-20 in the 90s and my siblings did not. There’s a huge divergence in earnings and peer group (my college friends and their outcomes compared to theirs)….
Agree with this. I went to a top Ivy, sibling did not. We both did fine in our careers and lives, but we went on to very different paths. And the people we associate with now are very, very different.
What makes your path that much better?
Would really love an answer to this.
Anonymous
04/27/2024 12:24
Subject: Do T20s actually matter?
Anonymous wrote:In the real world, companies have recruiters in HR sorting through resumes and conducting initial screening interviews. By the time candidates reach the hiring manager, they've been through multiple rounds of vetting.
this isn’t binary and - many shades of gray depending on company, industry, cycle, outlook, etc etc. Many companies approach like you profess as gospel, and many do not
Anonymous
04/27/2024 12:17
Subject: Do T20s actually matter?
In the real world, companies have recruiters in HR sorting through resumes and conducting initial screening interviews. By the time candidates reach the hiring manager, they've been through multiple rounds of vetting.
Anonymous
04/27/2024 11:46
Subject: Do T20s actually matter?
Anonymous wrote:Cute, but most companies don’t have a single “hiring manager” with plenary power to hire candidates. The candidates get screened, often by a committee, then interviewed, usually by direct and indirect supervisors. Then some sort of feedback is elicited and at least a soft consensus built. So no the hiring manager doesn’t get thrown under the bus if someone doesn’t work out. They are more likely to get in trouble for screening out someone with a high GPA in a target major even from a non-elite college.
maybe this is how it works in ur snowflake world. In the real world AI screens first batch - and in the jobs kids want (IB, Consulting, and Tech), the final decision will be ur boss, or hiring manager - welcome to 2024
Anonymous
04/27/2024 11:32
Subject: Do T20s actually matter?
Cute, but most companies don’t have a single “hiring manager” with plenary power to hire candidates. The candidates get screened, often by a committee, then interviewed, usually by direct and indirect supervisors. Then some sort of feedback is elicited and at least a soft consensus built. So no the hiring manager doesn’t get thrown under the bus if someone doesn’t work out. They are more likely to get in trouble for screening out someone with a high GPA in a target major even from a non-elite college.
Anonymous
04/27/2024 10:50
Subject: Do T20s actually matter?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If T20 schools are so great, why can’t their leaders figure out how to clear a field full of fat ugly female antisemites?
Employers, thankfully, are starting to notice things like this. They are also expanding their recruiting horizons and doing their own preemployment testing.
A 3.8 from Harvard or Stanford means you won the admissions lottery and paid the bills for 4 years.
I get what ur saying but conversely hiring managers are taking less of a risk when they hire T20 vs lesser school. If the former kid blows up in the job, the hiring manager can defend “how was i to know, they graduated x school”, whereas when the latter shts the bed in the role the hiring manager will be blamed for “taking the risk”