Anonymous
Post 04/24/2024 09:49     Subject: Nate Silver: "Go to a state school"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I can see people are upset because they have an investment, whether emotional, financial, or ideological, with the current modus operandi at most elite colleges so they are bitterly resistant to the changing realities surrounding elite higher education these days despite that Silver cites data showing significant shift in public perspectives on higher education and elite higher education.

This is what people thought of a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 1994: highly accomplished and brainy nerd.

This is what many people now think when they encounter a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 2024: Either a legacy admit from an extremely connected and / or wealthy family (nepotism) or a mollycoddled diversity admit benefiting from a system that rewards identity over merit. And both will bring the same increasingly annoying social justice warrior outlook largely divorced from reality.

Silver is not a right wing MAGAtard, he is a Democrat and sold his polling business to the NYT. But like a lot of very intelligent nerds, Silver doesn't shy away from frankness.



Everyone has these scores today because of the massive grade inflation and dumbing down of tests like SATs.

Anonymous
Post 04/24/2024 09:47     Subject: Nate Silver: "Go to a state school"
Anonymous wrote:If you like impacted courses of 250+ students taught by TAs, this advice is spot on.


Do you think undergrads at Harvard and Yale are always taught by professors? (They are not. TAs teach a lot of classes to undergrads there.)
Anonymous
Post 04/24/2024 09:47     Subject: Nate Silver: "Go to a state school"
Anonymous wrote:YOUR kids should go to community college then state school or better yet trade school…

My kids? Oh, they are at elite SLACs, Ivies, Georgetown, or UVA at worst.


I hope you don’t have to endure the shame of having a kid at UVA.
Anonymous
Post 04/24/2024 09:46     Subject: Nate Silver: "Go to a state school"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:YOUR kids should go to community college then state school or better yet trade school…

My kids? Oh, they are at elite SLACs, Ivies, Georgetown, or UVA at worst.

+1 Big do as I say not as I do energy from someone who grew up in the shadow of Michigan State’s football stadium but went to the University of Chicago.


Completely agree. He argues that chicago wasn't really elite when he applied in the 90s. That's absurd. I'm 15 years older than Nate and applied only to "elite" colleges back then. I ended up choosing between Chicago and a top Ivy, and ended up going to the Ivy only because it was closer to home. Silver could at least have a little more self-awareness.


That's not really what he said though. He said it accepted 40% of students which makes it LESS elite than it is now, but acknowledged that the people who applied at the time were self-selecting.

He also says: "Even if I had gone to Harvard though — applied, didn’t get in, by the way — I don’t think that would make me a hypocrite because my argument is that this change has been relatively recent and that many of the downstream effects are still to come."

Anonymous
Post 04/24/2024 09:42     Subject: Nate Silver: "Go to a state school"
Anonymous wrote:Every Single Person On This Board Would Jump At Harvard Over George Mason If Your Child Were Admitted And Could Afford It.

This entire post is just more white rage and post-hoc* justification.

* def.: after the fact


I think Silver is talking more about ROI than about people's individual preferences.

Nobody is going to get admitted to both Harvard and George Mason AND have to pay the same price to attend each one.
Anonymous
Post 04/24/2024 09:37     Subject: Nate Silver: "Go to a state school"
Anonymous wrote:Every Single Person On This Board Would Jump At Harvard Over George Mason If Your Child Were Admitted And Could Afford It.

This entire post is just more white rage and post-hoc* justification.

* def.: after the fact



Basically, yeah.

Anonymous
Post 04/24/2024 09:33     Subject: Nate Silver: "Go to a state school"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:YOUR kids should go to community college then state school or better yet trade school…

My kids? Oh, they are at elite SLACs, Ivies, Georgetown, or UVA at worst.

+1 Big do as I say not as I do energy from someone who grew up in the shadow of Michigan State’s football stadium but went to the University of Chicago.


Completely agree. He argues that chicago wasn't really elite when he applied in the 90s. That's absurd. I'm 15 years older than Nate and applied only to "elite" colleges back then. I ended up choosing between Chicago and a top Ivy, and ended up going to the Ivy only because it was closer to home. Silver could at least have a little more self-awareness.
Anonymous
Post 04/24/2024 09:32     Subject: Nate Silver: "Go to a state school"
Every Single Person On This Board Would Jump At Harvard Over George Mason If Your Child Were Admitted And Could Afford It.

This entire post is just more white rage and post-hoc* justification.

* def.: after the fact
Anonymous
Post 04/24/2024 09:00     Subject: Re:Nate Silver: "Go to a state school"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The only data he actually cites doesn’t really support his claim.

1. Public perception of higher education generally has slipped. This doesn’t support the claim that elite colleges are harmed more than state schools.

2. Polls that say private schools are not worth the cost of public. Again this doesn’t distinguish between “elite” and non elite public. Maybe people would say “yes, I wouldn’t pay for Elon but I think MIT is worth it”

3. Harvard perception. The division along political lines suggests that this is a political issue. Republicans voters have been told to hate those east coast liberal colleges and their students. But the average Republican voter isn’t hiring anyone. It would be more interesting to see a poll along socio economic and geographic lines. Do NYC republicans have the same view? That’s more relevant than people in Alabama.

Maybe the book will have more information but otherwise this seems like a whole lot of opinion and conjecture for now.


I'm a hiring manager who has definitely had opinions of elite colleges change over the last few years. Also a graduate of an elite college myself.

Should reread his post carefully instead of jumping to conclusions. Silver speaks to everything you raised.


+1 similarly situated hiring manager. I need people who work hard and listen to other people’s opinions, not people who feel entitled to a top spot because their parents rode them through high school and they prepped well for standardized tests.

Heard something similar from a research scientist. They said that state grads made better RA than ivy grads who felt cleaning equipment was beneath them, and kept touting how they went to "some elite" college.


This is some seriously stereotyped thinking. Some bosses don't like to feel threatened by their "underlings" too and purposefully hire for those who seem more subservient so they won't get shown up. Some have chips on their shoulders about schools too. Just judge people on their merits and don't make up some generalized stories about the "elite" or "state school grads."
Anonymous
Post 04/24/2024 08:54     Subject: Nate Silver: "Go to a state school"
Anonymous wrote:The seething resentment makes me think of the cultural revolution.

Child is at an Ivy. Happy and thriving, as she has finally found her people. That’s all that really matters to us.


Same. It is a great feeling.
Anonymous
Post 04/24/2024 08:49     Subject: Nate Silver: "Go to a state school"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am getting from this that the white folks are mad at “DEI”. It cannot be that elite anymore now that the browns and the blacks are getting in. All that riff raff ! Let us hire our own folks from the top public universities!

🤦‍♀️


In your own way you did get straight to the heart of the matter, even if not necessarily in the way you intended.

The simple reality is many diversity admits at elite colleges are nowhere close to the white or Asian admits in terms of scores and accomplishments, it does devalue the overall perspectives of the degree.

I see a resume from an Asian graduate from Harvard, I know she is going to be among the absolutely tippety top of students given that they have the highest barriers to entry to Harvard. But I don't consider resumes from a black Harvard graduate in the same light. I know, as the Harvard data confirmed, they had much lower admissions standards.


Good thing this is anonymous because you racially discriminate in hiring.

dp.. unfortunately, that's the double edged sword of DEI.


No it isn’t. It’s only like that because people are racist.

Both applicants made it through Harvard in this case but you’re judging them on what they may or may not have done 4 years earlier based on nothing but their race. I kind of doubt someone who thinks like this would have some different opinion under other circumstances. You just use DEI as an excuse for your own bias.
Anonymous
Post 04/24/2024 08:49     Subject: Nate Silver: "Go to a state school"
Anonymous wrote:The seething resentment makes me think of the cultural revolution.

Child is at an Ivy. Happy and thriving, as she has finally found her people. That’s all that really matters to us.


First, I’m glad your child is happy and thriving. That’s great. But the “finally found her people” remark smacks of condescension, as it implies a certain unicorn quality to the student body. She could have found similarly people at several dozen universities.
Anonymous
Post 04/24/2024 08:44     Subject: Nate Silver: "Go to a state school"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I can see people are upset because they have an investment, whether emotional, financial, or ideological, with the current modus operandi at most elite colleges so they are bitterly resistant to the changing realities surrounding elite higher education these days despite that Silver cites data showing significant shift in public perspectives on higher education and elite higher education.

This is what people thought of a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 1994: highly accomplished and brainy nerd.

This is what many people now think when they encounter a freshly minted Harvard graduate in 2024: Either a legacy admit from an extremely connected and / or wealthy family (nepotism) or a mollycoddled diversity admit benefiting from a system that rewards identity over merit. And both will bring the same increasingly annoying social justice warrior outlook largely divorced from reality.

Silver is not a right wing MAGAtard, he is a Democrat and sold his polling business to the NYT. But like a lot of very intelligent nerds, Silver doesn't shy away from frankness.



You are an idiot. The minority students at Harvard etc have near perfect test scores and/or grades. The average student now is miles ahead of the 1994 student in terms of academic indicators. Same with the wealthy kids; at the top schools everyone has the scores that's why they add other factors to select.

dp... that is not what the Harvard lawsuit showed.

I'm not saying there aren't high scoring URM, but as a whole, they are not a group that scores that high.



I am an expert on the Harvard case. Show me where it says that in the data. Half of the black applicants to Harvard that were REJECTED have academic indicators that would have been in the 90th percentile of ACCEPTED APPLICANTS OF ALL RACES.

Harvard has like 4 times as many applicants with perfect scores or grades than they have slots. The black students who are admitted to Harvard have extremely strong scores just as many of the black students who are rejected. The problem is that people like you want Harvard to only pick the perfect score students, but there are not enough seats for that and Harvard doesn’t think that perfect score automatically merits admission anyway.
Anonymous
Post 04/24/2024 08:40     Subject: Nate Silver: "Go to a state school"
The seething resentment makes me think of the cultural revolution.

Child is at an Ivy. Happy and thriving, as she has finally found her people. That’s all that really matters to us.
Anonymous
Post 04/24/2024 08:39     Subject: Nate Silver: "Go to a state school"
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I am getting from this that the white folks are mad at “DEI”. It cannot be that elite anymore now that the browns and the blacks are getting in. All that riff raff ! Let us hire our own folks from the top public universities!

🤦‍♀️


In your own way you did get straight to the heart of the matter, even if not necessarily in the way you intended.

The simple reality is many diversity admits at elite colleges are nowhere close to the white or Asian admits in terms of scores and accomplishments, it does devalue the overall perspectives of the degree.

I see a resume from an Asian graduate from Harvard, I know she is going to be among the absolutely tippety top of students given that they have the highest barriers to entry to Harvard. But I don't consider resumes from a black Harvard graduate in the same light. I know, as the Harvard data confirmed, they had much lower admissions standards.


Good thing this is anonymous because you racially discriminate in hiring.

dp.. unfortunately, that's the double edged sword of DEI.