Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reflecting on this post, as someone with a PhD and had many friends with PhDs. PPs are right I don't know a single one, even my very religious friends, that were able to have 4 kids. And know none with tenure. I'm 38. So OP, with 4 kids under 6 can't be that much older than me.

I know two women like that.
One is 35, a star in her field, 4 kids, and a husband in the same field but much less of a star

I also know many tenured female profs with 3 kids, know those who had kids in college but it did not deter them from getting a PhD and being well-known in their respective fields. Many of them are my friends and I see that they are great mothers, researchers, and teachers.
Some people are very smart and very organized.

I am saying this as someone who left academia for a corporate job, only has 2 kids because of infertility, and makes 130k.

I am less of an achiever but I admire women who manage to rock it.

You go OP! I am sure if you have tenure and 4 little kids, you'll manage to make it outside of academia too.

So strange, I attended two, a top 3 and top 10 university and know 0 people that fit this description. I only have one physician friend with 3 kids, one academic with 3 and that was an accident. My only friend with 4 kids quit the workforce (I'm a millennial so presumably the OPs age).

Judging by the academic mama fb page, there are quite a few women with 3+ kids.

As I said, I personally know 2 professors with 4 kids, and at least four with 3 kids (not all of them were in my PhD cohort, but across the 4 cohorts).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reflecting on this post, as someone with a PhD and had many friends with PhDs. PPs are right I don't know a single one, even my very religious friends, that were able to have 4 kids. And know none with tenure. I'm 38. So OP, with 4 kids under 6 can't be that much older than me.

I know two women like that.
One is 35, a star in her field, 4 kids, and a husband in the same field but much less of a star

I also know many tenured female profs with 3 kids, know those who had kids in college but it did not deter them from getting a PhD and being well-known in their respective fields. Many of them are my friends and I see that they are great mothers, researchers, and teachers.
Some people are very smart and very organized.

I am saying this as someone who left academia for a corporate job, only has 2 kids because of infertility, and makes 130k.

I am less of an achiever but I admire women who manage to rock it.

You go OP! I am sure if you have tenure and 4 little kids, you'll manage to make it outside of academia too.

So strange, I attended two, a top 3 and top 10 university and know 0 people that fit this description. I only have one physician friend with 3 kids, one academic with 3 and that was an accident. My only friend with 4 kids quit the workforce (I'm a millennial so presumably the OPs age).

Anonymous wrote:Reflecting on this post, as someone with a PhD and had many friends with PhDs. PPs are right I don't know a single one, even my very religious friends, that were able to have 4 kids. And know none with tenure. I'm 38. So OP, with 4 kids under 6 can't be that much older than me.

I know two women like that.
One is 35, a star in her field, 4 kids, and a husband in the same field but much less of a star

I also know many tenured female profs with 3 kids, know those who had kids in college but it did not deter them from getting a PhD and being well-known in their respective fields. Many of them are my friends and I see that they are great mothers, researchers, and teachers.
Some people are very smart and very organized.

I am saying this as someone who left academia for a corporate job, only has 2 kids because of infertility, and makes 130k.

I am less of an achiever but I admire women who manage to rock it.

You go OP! I am sure if you have tenure and 4 little kids, you'll manage to make it outside of academia too.

I attended a woman's college. My favorite professor did this so his wife could advance in her career. Everyone was stunned that he would leave. He acknowledged that the last two moves had been for his career and it was her turn. He also felt that it would be hypocritical to effectively hamper her career and then continue teaching college women to reach for the stars.

Your decision really depends on your relationship and where you want to go as a couple and a family. There will always be sacrifices in a family, so you have to decide together which one to make here for the best outcome for all of you together. Not just you and not just him; the collective you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op, take the sabbatical and a 1 year LOA and see about getting some work done while abraod but also reflect on what you want to do. Also write some research grants so you can take a buy out when like 2nd semester, year 3 or 4.

For year 3, remember semesters are short. Fly in the day before it starts, get your 15 weeks. If you can give a take home final that can be upload to canvas or scanned by a TA. That will shave off a week or so--you might be able to swing it with no class after Thanksgiving for fall. I have seen faculty do this and if the staff like you as well as the admin, then it is entirely do-able.

The kids are the issue with year 3. Her exec husband won’t be able to solo parent 4 kids for 15 weeks.

Depending on where they are, they will having a nanny, cook, and driver. I guess I was taking that for granted. This is where family might be able to help, especially if a buy out is possible for spring.

My friends who are in academia are fairly bored with their jobs by the time they are in their 50's (none of them are at the top of their fields -- just tenured professors at middling universities). For that reason alone, I'd think about leaving a tenure position to support a spouse who could really do something interesting. If you are smart enough to get tenure by age 35, you are smart enough to figure out a path forward outside of your current position.

Anonymous wrote:All those people claiming troll are jealous of this lady's hard work and time management skills. Tenure by 35 is obviously a rare accomplishment but definitely still doable by the dedicated and lucky. She was probably a superstar (for her dept) pre kids.

Also, there is a wide range of pay across universities/colleges and across departments. $190K as a full prof is of course very good but not at all crazy high.

It’s not even that rare to get tenure at 35 in certain fields (which OP seems to be in). A lot of posters here seem to only have experiences with humanities or hard science.

I haven’t read this whole thread, but if your academic focus fits, you should get a fellowship to the EUI. Such a gorgeous university in Florence! As long as your husband’s role could be in Rome or Milan, it would be a dream. And Italians love young kids.

I would do it only if 1) I was excited about raising kids abroad for several years (I would be depending on place and think it can be amazing for kids, I lived in Europe for 1.5 years as a kid and it shaped me to this day) and 2) I could find a way to reach and research abroad. I would not do it and then became an expat sahm. Also I would not decide asap. I would negotiate sabbatical/year or two off to decide. If after 2 years it’s misery you go back or leave or figure out next steps.

Realistically you don’t need the money. Tenure gives you flexibility but also there are all the administrative demands. Academia is a bit of a cult so your colleagues will think you are nuts but once outside, you can see it with better perspective.

Would you be happy with a career where you taught and researched but don’t have tenure? A semi independent academic professional? Thatsbwould I would do if I didn’t need the money (I’m in a parallel type of field and one of my friends left and is basically writing a lot of essays and doing research and giving talks and is much happier..her spouse founded /sold a company that had made her salary totally unnecessary).

A lot depends on the specific international location. Some places are easier to work remotely, set up childcare etc. Your kids will be entering school overseas and that is potentially a big complication.

Anonymous wrote:Op, take the sabbatical and a 1 year LOA and see about getting some work done while abraod but also reflect on what you want to do. Also write some research grants so you can take a buy out when like 2nd semester, year 3 or 4.

For year 3, remember semesters are short. Fly in the day before it starts, get your 15 weeks. If you can give a take home final that can be upload to canvas or scanned by a TA. That will shave off a week or so--you might be able to swing it with no class after Thanksgiving for fall. I have seen faculty do this and if the staff like you as well as the admin, then it is entirely do-able.

The kids are the issue with year 3. Her exec husband won’t be able to solo parent 4 kids for 15 weeks.

All those people claiming troll are jealous of this lady's hard work and time management skills. Tenure by 35 is obviously a rare accomplishment but definitely still doable by the dedicated and lucky. She was probably a superstar (for her dept) pre kids.

Also, there is a wide range of pay across universities/colleges and across departments. $190K as a full prof is of course very good but not at all crazy high.

Op, take the sabbatical and a 1 year LOA and see about getting some work done while abraod but also reflect on what you want to do. Also write some research grants so you can take a buy out when like 2nd semester, year 3 or 4.

For year 3, remember semesters are short. Fly in the day before it starts, get your 15 weeks. If you can give a take home final that can be upload to canvas or scanned by a TA. That will shave off a week or so--you might be able to swing it with no class after Thanksgiving for fall. I have seen faculty do this and if the staff like you as well as the admin, then it is entirely do-able.

How did you manage to get tenure with 4 young kids (and 4 maternity leaves)! And a spouse with an intense job? Seriously, teach me your secrets OP! I am in awe of how that could possibly work.

Anonymous wrote:Sorry but I don’t think you’re a professor making 190k. While that’s certainly a do-able salary, that’s mostly in Research 1 institutions, you say you are young (have small kids) and seem to have most of your responsibility teaching courses and not actively pushing out grad students, so don’t think you make 190k.

Two friends in NY state in their mid-40s who are professors make that much - maybe more. One is tenure track and the other just got tenure. So I believe the OP.