Anonymous
04/11/2024 09:58
Subject: HOPE SCORES
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:With HOPE requiring comparative ratings within cultural group, it's tough for Asian American students to make in with just good scores like 90 or 92, need exceptional scores like 98 or 99 on iready. Ofcourse, this is after acing nnat/cogat.
And this is actually why I wondered on this or another thread if there were trolls posting fake rejections. Because it brings out the people convinced that this is how the committee worked, even though people who claimed to have been on the committee have repeatedly said that's not how it worked.
Who, when and where have they said?
Might all be the same person, but:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/105/1195412.page#27209506
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/105/1195412.page#27209552
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/105/1195412.page#27209596
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/105/1195412.page#27212684
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/120/1195412.page#27216671
how do we know it's not you making all these posts, and blaming others to troll further?
You don't, but it's not. But of course there's no way to prove it other than to get Jeff to reveal IP addresses.
Anonymous
04/11/2024 09:01
Subject: HOPE SCORES
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If your kid is advanced and hasn't been accepted in to Level IV for whatever reason and if they don't get accepted even after an appeal, what is your plan? Do you plan on enrolling your child in enrichment classes or giving them challenging material to study at home?
We'll teach DC after school by ourselves. Both parents have advance degrees. We probably will transfer to private at 6th grade.
So you will move your child to private just as the Honors classes come into play in MS? Even though private schools have less differentiation then public schools and many of the private schools in the area have dropped AP classes?
DS was accepted into LIV with no prep. We kept him at the base school for a language immersion program. He has been in Advanced Math at his base school. He scored in the 99th percentile on the IAAT, passed his SOLs advanced every year, and has high iReadys. His school did not have LLIV when we made our decision. Between Advanced Math and LIII pull outs he has had his needs met.
If you are not at a Title 1 school, your child will have peers in the regular classroom and will be well prepared for MS and HS. Most of the kids in HS AP/IB classes were not in LIV in ES and go on to get good grades and 4’s and 5’s on AP exams. LIV is not some magic program that is amazing and the end all be all. Title 1 schools will have a pronounced gap between the kids who were ready for school and the ones who were not. LIV gives kids who were ready and are now ahead a class that moves at the regular pace instead of one that is teaching to kids who are mainly behind.
For non-Title 1 schools, AAP is not all that special. Some parents assume that it is the path to TJ, but that is more the Advanced Math that allows kids into Algebra in 7th grade. Even before the change in admissions, it was the accelerated math that helped with TJ, not AAP as a whole. Some parents want to be able to say that their kid was accepted into AAP, it is a prestige thing.
kid is in AAP, and our reasoning was simply kept to:
1) AAP is a proper fit for our child, since gen ed has less rigor and is too easy
2) continue daily math and english afterschool enrichment, which was reflected in perfect iready scores
3) used best cogat/nnat workbooks for a week, since we didnt want to rely on HOPE politics
what we dont and wont do:
1) worry about what other parents think
2) go around convincing other parents gen ed is same as AAP
3) show hatred, by calling responsible parenting as prepping
4) admit child into TJ with lowest level middle school math
Anonymous
04/11/2024 07:31
Subject: HOPE SCORES
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If your kid is advanced and hasn't been accepted in to Level IV for whatever reason and if they don't get accepted even after an appeal, what is your plan? Do you plan on enrolling your child in enrichment classes or giving them challenging material to study at home?
We'll teach DC after school by ourselves. Both parents have advance degrees. We probably will transfer to private at 6th grade.
So you will move your child to private just as the Honors classes come into play in MS? Even though private schools have less differentiation then public schools and many of the private schools in the area have dropped AP classes?
DS was accepted into LIV with no prep. We kept him at the base school for a language immersion program. He has been in Advanced Math at his base school. He scored in the 99th percentile on the IAAT, passed his SOLs advanced every year, and has high iReadys. His school did not have LLIV when we made our decision. Between Advanced Math and LIII pull outs he has had his needs met.
If you are not at a Title 1 school, your child will have peers in the regular classroom and will be well prepared for MS and HS. Most of the kids in HS AP/IB classes were not in LIV in ES and go on to get good grades and 4’s and 5’s on AP exams. LIV is not some magic program that is amazing and the end all be all. Title 1 schools will have a pronounced gap between the kids who were ready for school and the ones who were not. LIV gives kids who were ready and are now ahead a class that moves at the regular pace instead of one that is teaching to kids who are mainly behind.
For non-Title 1 schools, AAP is not all that special. Some parents assume that it is the path to TJ, but that is more the Advanced Math that allows kids into Algebra in 7th grade. Even before the change in admissions, it was the accelerated math that helped with TJ, not AAP as a whole. Some parents want to be able to say that their kid was accepted into AAP, it is a prestige thing.
Anonymous
04/11/2024 00:33
Subject: HOPE SCORES
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:With HOPE requiring comparative ratings within cultural group, it's tough for Asian American students to make in with just good scores like 90 or 92, need exceptional scores like 98 or 99 on iready. Ofcourse, this is after acing nnat/cogat.
And this is actually why I wondered on this or another thread if there were trolls posting fake rejections. Because it brings out the people convinced that this is how the committee worked, even though people who claimed to have been on the committee have repeatedly said that's not how it worked.
Who, when and where have they said?
Might all be the same person, but:
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/105/1195412.page#27209506
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/105/1195412.page#27209552
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/105/1195412.page#27209596
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/105/1195412.page#27212684
https://www.dcurbanmom.com/jforum/posts/list/120/1195412.page#27216671
how do we know it's not you making all these posts, and blaming others to troll further?
Anonymous
04/10/2024 16:02
Subject: HOPE SCORES
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why is this program called HOPE? As if otherwise there is none?
It stands for having opportunity promotes excellence
They need to change the name for the kids who don't make it into this program. It's tone deaf.
Unlike GBRS, FCPS didn't make up HOPE.
And it’s usage goes way beyond FCPS and/or our AAP program.
The core principle of HOPE is equitable identification by comparing kids within their cultural group. Without this core principle, there is nothing unique to HOPE.
Untrue. HOPE (developed by Perdue) was chosen because it has been evaluated with validity and reliability metrics. GBRS was an interval FCPS measure with no such evaluation, which is why the audit of AAP recommended replacing it.
True developed by Purdue, but also true designed to address underrepresented and ratings are to be comparative to try to limit bias. Purdue did 3-year project on low income kids and then did studies of Native American kids before where is now. It also was never designed to be the only assessment to identify gifted.
Generally, assessments like HOPE are intended to boost kids into gifted programs who don't otherwise meet the test score thresholds. They aren't intended to keep out the kids who have the test scores.
Gifted hasn't been focus of AAP for many years, all words gifted deleted from description, to leave no doubt. AAP is pure advanced academics. But it's been not showing diversity numbers to board members liking. Hence, HOPE has been brought into picture, as it allows non-merit factors for comparisons within cultural groups. Cultural groupings conveniently align the target diversity chart breakdown.
Anonymous
04/10/2024 15:38
Subject: HOPE SCORES
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If your kid is advanced and hasn't been accepted in to Level IV for whatever reason and if they don't get accepted even after an appeal, what is your plan? Do you plan on enrolling your child in enrichment classes or giving them challenging material to study at home?
enrichment classes are necessary because even AAP is the old Gen Ed, and not nearly challenging enough for vast majority of average and above average students. If parent is college educated, has time, and kids take directions from parent well, then home study plan is possible.
old remedial == current Gen Ed
old gen ed == current AAP
AAP students of today are learning what gen ed students in same grade were learning before AAP was established
Anonymous
04/10/2024 15:36
Subject: HOPE SCORES
When is the deadline for LIV appeals?
Anonymous
04/10/2024 15:30
Subject: HOPE SCORES
Anonymous wrote:If your kid is advanced and hasn't been accepted in to Level IV for whatever reason and if they don't get accepted even after an appeal, what is your plan? Do you plan on enrolling your child in enrichment classes or giving them challenging material to study at home?
enrichment classes are necessary because even AAP is the old Gen Ed, and not nearly challenging enough for vast majority of average and above average students. If parent is college educated, has time, and kids take directions from parent well, then home study plan is possible.
Anonymous
04/10/2024 15:18
Subject: HOPE SCORES
Anonymous wrote:If your kid is advanced and hasn't been accepted in to Level IV for whatever reason and if they don't get accepted even after an appeal, what is your plan? Do you plan on enrolling your child in enrichment classes or giving them challenging material to study at home?
We'll teach DC after school by ourselves. Both parents have advance degrees. We probably will transfer to private at 6th grade.
Anonymous
04/10/2024 15:10
Subject: HOPE SCORES
If your kid is advanced and hasn't been accepted in to Level IV for whatever reason and if they don't get accepted even after an appeal, what is your plan? Do you plan on enrolling your child in enrichment classes or giving them challenging material to study at home?
Anonymous
04/10/2024 14:52
Subject: HOPE SCORES
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why is this program called HOPE? As if otherwise there is none?
It stands for having opportunity promotes excellence
They need to change the name for the kids who don't make it into this program. It's tone deaf.
Unlike GBRS, FCPS didn't make up HOPE.
And it’s usage goes way beyond FCPS and/or our AAP program.
The core principle of HOPE is equitable identification by comparing kids within their cultural group. Without this core principle, there is nothing unique to HOPE.
Untrue. HOPE (developed by Perdue) was chosen because it has been evaluated with validity and reliability metrics. GBRS was an interval FCPS measure with no such evaluation, which is why the audit of AAP recommended replacing it.
True developed by Purdue, but also true designed to address underrepresented and ratings are to be comparative to try to limit bias. Purdue did 3-year project on low income kids and then did studies of Native American kids before where is now. It also was never designed to be the only assessment to identify gifted.
Generally, assessments like HOPE are intended to boost kids into gifted programs who don't otherwise meet the test score thresholds. They aren't intended to keep out the kids who have the test scores.
Anonymous
04/10/2024 14:16
Subject: HOPE SCORES
Asians are always discriminated
Look at the holidays off from school. There’s a holiday today. But the biggest Asian holiday is not observed - lunar new year. Don’t you know you have to be twice as great, check all the boxes and be 2x the extrovert for an Asian to make it - TJ, top colleagues, etc
"Holistic" is another way to express non-transparent. I would expect the process is not supposed to be racist, but if they are comparing kids of similar backgrounds/experience, they may ONLY be comparing him to other Asian boys.
Look at the holidays off from school. There’s a holiday today. But the biggest Asian holiday is not observed - lunar new year. Don’t you know you have to be twice as great, check all the boxes and be 2x the extrovert for an Asian to make it - TJ, top colleagues, etc
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:
Thank you very much for this! My kid has 158 NNAT 152 cogat 99% 97% iready but got rejected. I just got the HOpe score 3 offen and 8 sometimes. I am so mad. I guess there is nothing I can do other than prepare more work sample to appeal
Why did they reject this kid? I wish you luck on the appeal.
Is your child hyperactive at school? You may get in by appeal. AAP teacher may have prior bias against your child if a "trouble maker". I am not blaming your child, but our society does not allow children to be children anymore. I am not blaming the teachers either, it is easy to identify regular good students but it is not that easy to identify the true gifted ones. That why there are objective measures. It is sad that the objective measures weight less than subjective measures. But this also signals that the schools/teachers are not able to support this type of learner. Looks for some other ways to help your child even if your appeal in.
He is definitely not a trouble maker. He is a quiet introvert boy. Got a lot of fours on report cards. Quit surprised on the hope score and rejection. Maybe because he is a Asian boy?
Contact the AART for details. Don't just satisfy with " we used holistic....." ask about how. If they compare with similar background, experience, etc, ask for details.
"Holistic" is another way to express non-transparent. I would expect the process is not supposed to be racist, but if they are comparing kids of similar backgrounds/experience, they may ONLY be comparing him to other Asian boys.
Anonymous
04/10/2024 11:07
Subject: HOPE SCORES
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why is this program called HOPE? As if otherwise there is none?
It stands for having opportunity promotes excellence
They need to change the name for the kids who don't make it into this program. It's tone deaf.
Unlike GBRS, FCPS didn't make up HOPE.
And it’s usage goes way beyond FCPS and/or our AAP program.
The core principle of HOPE is equitable identification by comparing kids within their cultural group. Without this core principle, there is nothing unique to HOPE.
Untrue. HOPE (developed by Perdue) was chosen because it has been evaluated with validity and reliability metrics. GBRS was an interval FCPS measure with no such evaluation, which is why the audit of AAP recommended replacing it.
True developed by Purdue, but also true designed to address underrepresented and ratings are to be comparative to try to limit bias. Purdue did 3-year project on low income kids and then did studies of Native American kids before where is now. It also was never designed to be the only assessment to identify gifted.
Anonymous
04/10/2024 11:03
Subject: HOPE SCORES
I would expect URM demos to increase in LIV numbers next year if FCPS is doing it right.
Anonymous
04/10/2024 10:56
Subject: HOPE SCORES
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Why is this program called HOPE? As if otherwise there is none?
It stands for having opportunity promotes excellence
They need to change the name for the kids who don't make it into this program. It's tone deaf.
Unlike GBRS, FCPS didn't make up HOPE.
And it’s usage goes way beyond FCPS and/or our AAP program.
The core principle of HOPE is equitable identification by comparing kids within their cultural group. Without this core principle, there is nothing unique to HOPE.
Untrue. HOPE (developed by Perdue) was chosen because it has been evaluated with validity and reliability metrics. GBRS was an interval FCPS measure with no such evaluation, which is why the audit of AAP recommended replacing it.
Wait, a chicken company invented HOPE?!! That’s crazy!
