Anonymous wrote:This AGAIN?

The bottom line is that you can get into a decent to good college without taking four years of a language in high school, but the very good and best colleges want to see four years, and why not? Foreign language is important. It’s a complicated world. Speaking a second language is an important thing. It’s a lot more important than a lot of the other bullshit classes that you have to take in high school. Why is everybody so afraid of foreign language?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What about switching a language after 2 years and doing 2 years of one, and 2 years of another? Does that look bad?

We have two DCs. Each did 2 years of a language in middle school, then 2 years in high school, with total credit equal to 3 years. They didn't do the 4th year or AP of this language because they were exhausted by it, but instead did 2 years of another foreign language, so the transcript looks like 3 + 2.

Each got into a T25.

Anonymous wrote:What about switching a language after 2 years and doing 2 years of one, and 2 years of another? Does that look bad?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I appreciate and understand that. Which is why I think it is terrific to study languages if that is your thing. My point was more that there is a workaround if necessary.

I just think the US is so darned prescriptive. It has become boring to me to see all these high schoolers on the same path. We were just willing to let our son take a risk.

I have no idea how this will end. And that’s okay.

What a joke. Which major country on this planet isn’t “prescriptive” when it comes to elite college admissions? China? Japan? The UK? Germany? Australia? For most of these countries a kid’s university selection, major and often career are dictated by what decisions were made since they were, what, 10 or 12 years old? Do you really think the US is unique in having particular and sometimes perplexing university admissions requirements. If you do, then you don’t get out much.

The real difference is that American parents all think their own kid deserves special treatment and shouldn’t have to play by the rules,

You are incorrect. High standards for elite schools are fine. But subject selection is indeed overly prescriptive in the US system.

Use Australia as an example. To earn your HSC, you test in English and four other subjects of your choosing. A polyglot can test in four additional languages. A future doctor can take four sciences. There is a math/econ/commerce track. Or a mix if the student prefers. But any of these paths will get you to a great university if you do well. Rigorous, broad General Ed requirements end at the end of Year 10.

Those kids are not tying themselves in knots trying to figure out how to be a well rounded yet extraordinarily pointy varsity athlete who founded a faux charity while paying a consultant $10k to polish the essay their mother wrote for them while they were busy paying to play at building mud huts in a random Central American country to which they have no connection. While speaking French.

I don’t think any kid should play by those rules. They need to be rewritten.

Anonymous wrote:If your STEM kid is so brilliant then they should be able to get easy A's in everything not STEM, right? Because only STEM is actually challenging or useful or worthy of their superior intellect. So who cares about that language requirement? Should be able to knock out 2 or 3 APs with just a little time on Duolingo, right? Easy as Honors AP My Kid Is So Super Smart Magnet Accelerated Better Than You Precalc, yes?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand the anti-language folks. I can't remember a lick of algebra or chemistry and thought they both were a waste of time. What's the difference?

+1
My kids are good at the humanities and languages. Both took their FL all four years of high school, through AP and one is now minoring in that language in college. On the flip side, neither took calculus in high school or college because they had no need to. Zero problems with great college acceptances. I would just go with the student’s strengths and stop worrying about what people tell you you *have* to do.

Scratching my head here.. The so called 'anti-language' folks are making the same point. Study what you want. Don't stuff language down our throats if we don't want it. Colleges shouldn't care about this. If language is your 'jam', by all means, learn two languages all 4 years of HS, but don't force someone who couldn't care less about language to sit through it for 4 years.

Then don't force my kid who couldn't care less about STEM to take math every year until HS graduation. He will end his HS career having been forced through infinitely more mathematics than most adults will ever need in their entire lives. And it won't have taught him anything.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would really like to believe that in this day an age a foreign language class is no longer considered a “core class”. Especially for kids applying to STEM or business majors. Its really is an outdated concept with the easy availability of translation apps [especialy at our HS where the quality of teaching is abysmal its as much of a waset of time as PE class]. But Im not sure how many AOs are on board with that yet.

Wow, this is an answer heavy with bias. World language is outdated, why not also English classes, too, since we can all just watch videos and use ChatGpt to write our papers. Might as well also scrap social studies, because one can use google to find out history and georgraphy facts.

All hail the mighty STEM!

You may call this bias, but I call it reality of living in 2024 and entering the workforce in 2028 or later (after 4 years of college). Foreign language is a great elective and its wonderful to be able to order off a menu in French, but I do not think it should be considered a core high school class for purposes of college admissions (especially for STEM majors). The reality is that even after 6-7 years of middle and high school foreign language instruction in the United States, most students can barely order off a menu- but even if the instruction were better, it is not an essential skill in this modern era. One-two years of computer science (also an elective, by the way) is at least an equally important foundational skill for the majority of jobs these students are going to be facing when they leave college. Its just reality.

How quaint! We spent a month in Japan last year and most of our ordering was using google translate to read the menu and pointing a finger at the item accompanied by a smile and thank you of course. One of our companions knew japanese but it was a PIA asking them to step in for everything. Worked well for us.

Your iPhone could calculate the tip in the restaurants, too (actually many restaurant bills have tip right on it nowadays) so I guess you don’t need math classes either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really don't understand the anti-language folks. I can't remember a lick of algebra or chemistry and thought they both were a waste of time. What's the difference?

+1
My kids are good at the humanities and languages. Both took their FL all four years of high school, through AP and one is now minoring in that language in college. On the flip side, neither took calculus in high school or college because they had no need to. Zero problems with great college acceptances. I would just go with the student’s strengths and stop worrying about what people tell you you *have* to do.

Scratching my head here.. The so called 'anti-language' folks are making the same point. Study what you want. Don't stuff language down our throats if we don't want it. Colleges shouldn't care about this. If language is your 'jam', by all means, learn two languages all 4 years of HS, but don't force someone who couldn't care less about language to sit through it for 4 years.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would really like to believe that in this day an age a foreign language class is no longer considered a “core class”. Especially for kids applying to STEM or business majors. Its really is an outdated concept with the easy availability of translation apps [especialy at our HS where the quality of teaching is abysmal its as much of a waset of time as PE class]. But Im not sure how many AOs are on board with that yet.

Wow, this is an answer heavy with bias. World language is outdated, why not also English classes, too, since we can all just watch videos and use ChatGpt to write our papers. Might as well also scrap social studies, because one can use google to find out history and georgraphy facts.

All hail the mighty STEM!

You may call this bias, but I call it reality of living in 2024 and entering the workforce in 2028 or later (after 4 years of college). Foreign language is a great elective and its wonderful to be able to order off a menu in French, but I do not think it should be considered a core high school class for purposes of college admissions (especially for STEM majors). The reality is that even after 6-7 years of middle and high school foreign language instruction in the United States, most students can barely order off a menu- but even if the instruction were better, it is not an essential skill in this modern era. One-two years of computer science (also an elective, by the way) is at least an equally important foundational skill for the majority of jobs these students are going to be facing when they leave college. Its just reality.

How quaint! We spent a month in Japan last year and most of our ordering was using google translate to read the menu and pointing a finger at the item accompanied by a smile and thank you of course. One of our companions knew japanese but it was a PIA asking them to step in for everything. Worked well for us.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I would really like to believe that in this day an age a foreign language class is no longer considered a “core class”. Especially for kids applying to STEM or business majors. Its really is an outdated concept with the easy availability of translation apps [especialy at our HS where the quality of teaching is abysmal its as much of a waset of time as PE class]. But Im not sure how many AOs are on board with that yet.

Wow, this is an answer heavy with bias. World language is outdated, why not also English classes, too, since we can all just watch videos and use ChatGpt to write our papers. Might as well also scrap social studies, because one can use google to find out history and georgraphy facts.

All hail the mighty STEM!

You may call this bias, but I call it reality of living in 2024 and entering the workforce in 2028 or later (after 4 years of college). Foreign language is a great elective and its wonderful to be able to order off a menu in French, but I do not think it should be considered a core high school class for purposes of college admissions (especially for STEM majors). The reality is that even after 6-7 years of middle and high school foreign language instruction in the United States, most students can barely order off a menu- but even if the instruction were better, it is not an essential skill in this modern era. One-two years of computer science (also an elective, by the way) is at least an equally important foundational skill for the majority of jobs these students are going to be facing when they leave college. Its just reality.

How quaint! We spent a month in Japan last year and most of our ordering was using google translate to read the menu and pointing a finger at the item accompanied by a smile and thank you of course. One of our companions knew japanese but it was a PIA asking them to step in for everything. Worked well for us.