Anonymous wrote:We paid the same for our Tesla as we would have for any other car. We had a purchase budget, and that's what we paid. So everything the Tesla saves us over our hybrid is savings.

I think some people saying the money doesn't work out are just saying they would have bought a cheaper car in the first place (like the PP saying the "EV version of an ICE" is more expensive)? Then doesn't that just mean you can't afford an EV yet?

Nope.

There are plenty of relatively inexpensive EV's like for example a Hyundai Kona.

Anonymous wrote:EV drivers are in denial about all the harm their vehicles are doing to the earth. They are just polluting the earth differently (battery production and energy generation) while claiming some false sense of moral high ground.

It is pathetic.

There are drivers who are in denial about the harm their vehicles are doing to the earth, but I don't think it's the ones with electric cars.

Most EV drivers certainly are aware of the environmental costs of EV production and of electric generation -- being more concerned with the environment is probably a major factor in buying an EV to begin with. And they're also likely aware of all the research that shows that even accounting for those costs, most EVs have a lower environmental impact than most gas cars overall, starting relatively quickly after they're put into service.

Personally, though I have both one EV and one gas car, I prefer not to use either of them whenever possible, so I Metro or bike to work and I try to do errands on foot whenever possible.

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Anonymous wrote:EVs are largely a scam. Compared to a hybrid, an EV is worse for the environment (from pollution during battery production and reduced vehicle lifespan even with battery replacements) and costs more money (vehicle price, insurance premiums, cost of electricity, rapid depreciation, etc)

None of this is actually true.

All of it is true. In some areas of the country, depending on gas prices and home electricity prices, charging is more expensive than gas. An ICE vehicle will last 2-3x as long as an EV because replacing the battery on an older EV costs more than the vehicle is worth.

Charging to full is not even close to more expensive than a full tank of gas. In fact, filling my gas tank is 10x more expensive than the rare time I had to charge to full at a rest stop. The one time we did that we stared that number in utter disbelief that anyone would buy a gas car again. But in reality, we programed the car to charge at home in off peak night hours or when our solar is overproducing.

Look at what percentage of new car purchases are EV in the US and then you can suspend your disbelief. It has never broken 10%. Most people wouldn’t consider them a replacement for a gas/hybrid vehicle.

Every other car in our school drop-off line is a Tesla. So some people are buying them.

EV drivers are in denial about all the harm their vehicles are doing to the earth. They are just polluting the earth differently (battery production and energy generation) while claiming some false sense of moral high ground.

It is pathetic.

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Anonymous wrote:EVs are largely a scam. Compared to a hybrid, an EV is worse for the environment (from pollution during battery production and reduced vehicle lifespan even with battery replacements) and costs more money (vehicle price, insurance premiums, cost of electricity, rapid depreciation, etc)

None of this is actually true.

All of it is true. In some areas of the country, depending on gas prices and home electricity prices, charging is more expensive than gas. An ICE vehicle will last 2-3x as long as an EV because replacing the battery on an older EV costs more than the vehicle is worth.

Charging to full is not even close to more expensive than a full tank of gas. In fact, filling my gas tank is 10x more expensive than the rare time I had to charge to full at a rest stop. The one time we did that we stared that number in utter disbelief that anyone would buy a gas car again. But in reality, we programed the car to charge at home in off peak night hours or when our solar is overproducing.

Look at what percentage of new car purchases are EV in the US and then you can suspend your disbelief. It has never broken 10%. Most people wouldn’t consider them a replacement for a gas/hybrid vehicle.

2023 was around 8%. 2024 is predicted to be around 13 percent.

https://www.caranddriver.com/news/a46340514/ev-sales-are-just-getting-started/

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Anonymous wrote:EVs are largely a scam. Compared to a hybrid, an EV is worse for the environment (from pollution during battery production and reduced vehicle lifespan even with battery replacements) and costs more money (vehicle price, insurance premiums, cost of electricity, rapid depreciation, etc)

None of this is actually true.

All of it is true. In some areas of the country, depending on gas prices and home electricity prices, charging is more expensive than gas. An ICE vehicle will last 2-3x as long as an EV because replacing the battery on an older EV costs more than the vehicle is worth.

Charging to full is not even close to more expensive than a full tank of gas. In fact, filling my gas tank is 10x more expensive than the rare time I had to charge to full at a rest stop. The one time we did that we stared that number in utter disbelief that anyone would buy a gas car again. But in reality, we programed the car to charge at home in off peak night hours or when our solar is overproducing.

Look at what percentage of new car purchases are EV in the US and then you can suspend your disbelief. It has never broken 10%. Most people wouldn’t consider them a replacement for a gas/hybrid vehicle.

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Anonymous wrote:Some charging stations also don’t work, are completely in-use, or have varying charging speeds making the whole experience unpredictable.

Yes, most people use an EV as a local car for commuting and running errands. We almost never go on long road trips, and we only charge at home, so an EV works for us.

Same here. Our EV is the daily driver. Never used a charging station because we charge in our garage. It has about 250 miles of range, but it's never gone below 150 since we chareg it every night or two. I plug it in when I take out the compost every night.

We have an ICE car for longer trips and as a second car. We take a few road trips a year.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:EVs are largely a scam. Compared to a hybrid, an EV is worse for the environment (from pollution during battery production and reduced vehicle lifespan even with battery replacements) and costs more money (vehicle price, insurance premiums, cost of electricity, rapid depreciation, etc)

None of this is actually true.

All of it is true. In some areas of the country, depending on gas prices and home electricity prices, charging is more expensive than gas. An ICE vehicle will last 2-3x as long as an EV because replacing the battery on an older EV costs more than the vehicle is worth.

Charging to full is not even close to more expensive than a full tank of gas. In fact, filling my gas tank is 10x more expensive than the rare time I had to charge to full at a rest stop. The one time we did that we stared that number in utter disbelief that anyone would buy a gas car again. But in reality, we programed the car to charge at home in off peak night hours or when our solar is overproducing.

Anonymous wrote:The teslas are super expensive to insure.

No they aren't, Our insurance didn't even change and we have teenage boys.

We paid the same for our Tesla as we would have for any other car. We had a purchase budget, and that's what we paid. So everything the Tesla saves us over our hybrid is savings.

I think some people saying the money doesn't work out are just saying they would have bought a cheaper car in the first place (like the PP saying the "EV version of an ICE" is more expensive)? Then doesn't that just mean you can't afford an EV yet?

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Anonymous wrote:No. The break even point vs. a similar internal combustion car is far out into the future

This . ... We did the math and do the math almost every year. EVs are not yet worth it.

I don't get your math?

I do not find EVs problematic for long road trips at all. But I don't eat while driving, and I use the rest room at least once per trip. All I have to do is charge while doing those things I do anyway. It is a total nonissue for me.

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Anonymous wrote:Some charging stations also don’t work, are completely in-use, or have varying charging speeds making the whole experience unpredictable.

Yes, most people use an EV as a local car for commuting and running errands. We almost never go on long road trips, and we only charge at home, so an EV works for us.

Right. Because ICE are better for anything longer than a commute or errands. So EV’s haven’t come remotely close to being a full solution.

We've taken an EV to ski trips, beach trips, to drop kids at sleep away camp in rural Virginia and to visit family and friends in New York. The biggest problem we had was having to wait about 20 minutes to use a charging station on the way back from New York once. It's definitely true that ICE cars are marginally more convenient for road trips, but once you realize you don't need the car to be fully charged (you just need it to have enough charge to get to the next spot to charge), planning is easier. And the fact that I never have to go anywhere to charge the car EXCEPT when on road trips, because we can charge at home, is a major improvement over ever needing to go buy gas. I just plug it in at night at home.

These are non-starters for me. I can go over 400 highway miles on a tank. I can go 2-3 weeks between fillups with normal local driving and I fill up during a weekday when I'm running errands anyway.

You can go forever without a fill up with normal local driving with an EV. You just plug it in at night. If it takes you 2-3 weeks to drive 400 miles, you wouldnt even need a special charger.

Exactly. In most local driving, "enough charge to get to the next spot to charge" just means "do I have enough charge to do all my daily driving today," because you can just plug in at night. On a road trip, it means you don't need to spend 40 minutes charging to 100 percent or whatever, you can instead make two 15 minute stops.

I am aware that for some people, the idea of having to stop at all on a long car trip is unacceptable. If that's the case for you, a fully electric EV is probably not for you. Personally, I think the other advantages of an EV easily outweigh the need to stop to charge and to plan charging in advance. (And the need to plan in advance is starting to evaporate as more DC charging gets built out.) My ICE car has a 10-gallon tank, so it wasn't like I could do a full round-trip road trip up 95 and back on one tank of gas, anyway...

Anonymous wrote:A mile on electricity from coal emits less carbon than a mile on gasoline. All these coal arguments are silly.

Not for a fuel efficient gas vehicle or most hybrids.

Anonymous wrote:No. The break even point vs. a similar internal combustion car is far out into the future

This . ... We did the math and do the math almost every year. EVs are not yet worth it.