Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really hard for me to say anything because I don’t know what kind of conflicts led you to this place. At some point you loved this person and married, and you have a special needs child which makes divorce harder.

What positive outcomes do you think are going to come out of a divorce?

I can’t comment on your situation either without knowing what kinds of conflicts happened and if reasonable or not to come back from.

Stress and anger, neglect and ignorance, black & white thinkers versus gray, lack of empathy vs empathy.

Simply put, even if our situation were possible to come back from, I'm not interested in that.

Why not? I'm not being judgmental here. Your situation sounds really tough and I'm sorry for you. I'm just curious why you wouldn't want to go back to how you felt when you first fell in love with this person. Not saying it's possible, by the way.

It's a completely different dynamic once kids become involved, particularly when all short and long-term decisions need to be structured around the limitations/challenges of one of them. We've basically had to become different people, with entirely new personal and familial objectives and values.

Is it possible? Only in the same way that it us possible you could force a loving relationship with some radom person you met on the street. I mean, obviously not that extreme, but I think that's a closer comparison than you might think.

If you've had exposure to other kids, say, neices and nephews, then you might think you have some idea of what you're getting into with kids. And while actual experience varies and can certainly challenge and violate your expectations, there's a lot you often can reasonably and accurately expect if you have a healthy and typical child. But those expectations can become wildly inaccurate with other kids. And that changes you in unpredictable and permanent ways.

The above bold is patently false.

Everyone needs to grow and adapt to raising and parenting children. Doubly so if a SN or handicapped child.

But you don’t change your fundamental values. Those were already there, and you either represented them outwardly or fake one set yet had another set.

Start going to church Op, you need actual values and perspective.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you blame the special needs on her behavior or her genetics? Did her physical appearance change?

You're stating contradictory things: you can hardly stand her physical presence and you can't bear the sound of her voice, but you're cordial roommates who can sometimes even go out jointly with friends? How does this compute? Doesn't sound cordial.

Are you in therapy, OP? The PP who suggested a depression screening is not wrong. Antidepressants can be a total game changer. SN is very hard on the parents and on the marriage, I really empathize as a SN parent. But you can't let that implode everything forever, by and by you gotta be able to dig yourself out.

Acknowledge to her that she wants something else. Tell her you're not in a place to provide that. Tell her what you're willing to do to improve things, even if it's 5% of what she wants.

OP again. Your last paragraph is exactly where we're stuck. We've had that discussion a million times. But how do you deal with someone that won't accept that and doesn't want a divorce?

I am the PP that you're responding to. The thing is that she has the right to want what she wants, just like you do. A lot of people (maybe even most) wouldn't accept what you want. If someone wants affection in their marriage it's a very natural and typical want. You sound stuck in resentment. You cannot "deal" with her wanting what she wants. She is not furniture, she is human, it's human to have wants. You are in control of you and what comes through in your messages is a lot of resentment (which you didn't explain). You need to deal with that. The arrangement you want is not possible without taking your resentment from the equation. You need to be at peace with yourself and those around you. I am not saying this from some sort of a hippie love all type of place. Your home ecosystem will not be stable as long as there is resentment.

Go to therapy, revise your meds with your dr., find a support group, do everything you can to make you feel OK. And then be open to the idea that you're over demonizing her so you don't have to feel guilty about how bad you've treated her in whatever happened in the past. It's a common self-defense mechanism that doesn't work for anyone long term.

OP here. I think this is probably largely accurate. But we've gone down the road of meds, couples therapy, and individual therapy, and this is still where it led. I don't see a way to work through the resentment except through strict compartmentalization.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you want the convenience that your spouse provides to your life, without giving anything in return. Very sad for your spouse.

He seems to be providing convenience to his wife too. He is taking care of his kids. He just does not want to provide emotional support to the wife.

we really don't know that.
we don't know his job or demands, her job or demands, his role in the house or on the weekend or hers.
we don't know what "take care of the sn kid" means or what "take care of the other kid" means.
we don't know much except the regurgitated cliches OP patches discloses every page.

He said so and I am giving him the benefit of the doubt. Also he has a SN kid with significant needs and I am assuming this is sucking away all his energy.
You don't know anything either but you are willing to cast him in the role of villain. Take a good look in the mirror.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really hard for me to say anything because I don’t know what kind of conflicts led you to this place. At some point you loved this person and married, and you have a special needs child which makes divorce harder.

What positive outcomes do you think are going to come out of a divorce?

I can’t comment on your situation either without knowing what kinds of conflicts happened and if reasonable or not to come back from.

Stress and anger, neglect and ignorance, black & white thinkers versus gray, lack of empathy vs empathy.

Simply put, even if our situation were possible to come back from, I'm not interested in that.

Why not? I'm not being judgmental here. Your situation sounds really tough and I'm sorry for you. I'm just curious why you wouldn't want to go back to how you felt when you first fell in love with this person. Not saying it's possible, by the way.

It's a completely different dynamic once kids become involved, particularly when all short and long-term decisions need to be structured around the limitations/challenges of one of them. We've basically had to become different people, with entirely new personal and familial objectives and values.

Is it possible? Only in the same way that it us possible you could force a loving relationship with some radom person you met on the street. I mean, obviously not that extreme, but I think that's a closer comparison than you might think.

If you've had exposure to other kids, say, neices and nephews, then you might think you have some idea of what you're getting into with kids. And while actual experience varies and can certainly challenge and violate your expectations, there's a lot you often can reasonably and accurately expect if you have a healthy and typical child. But those expectations can become wildly inaccurate with other kids. And that changes you in unpredictable and permanent ways.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you blame the special needs on her behavior or her genetics? Did her physical appearance change?

You're stating contradictory things: you can hardly stand her physical presence and you can't bear the sound of her voice, but you're cordial roommates who can sometimes even go out jointly with friends? How does this compute? Doesn't sound cordial.

Are you in therapy, OP? The PP who suggested a depression screening is not wrong. Antidepressants can be a total game changer. SN is very hard on the parents and on the marriage, I really empathize as a SN parent. But you can't let that implode everything forever, by and by you gotta be able to dig yourself out.

Acknowledge to her that she wants something else. Tell her you're not in a place to provide that. Tell her what you're willing to do to improve things, even if it's 5% of what she wants.

OP again. Your last paragraph is exactly where we're stuck. We've had that discussion a million times. But how do you deal with someone that won't accept that and doesn't want a divorce?

What’s your problem?

Your wife wants a home with a family in it working together.

YOU don’t.

Stop playing some weird game where you try to convince her to divorce you and want a divorce.

It takes ONE to divorce.

I don't want a divorce either. I get that you don't like the idea of a parenting marriage, but there's no reason every marriage has to look like what you envision.

DP. Your marriage doesn’t have to look like the traditional marriage that your wife envisions, but it doesn’t have to look exactly the way you imagine it either.
You seem completely unwilling to compromise on anything at all.

If nothing else, you should at least recognize that you are a rigid and difficult person who needs to have things your way. You accepting who you are would probably go a long way towards her accepting it.

What compromise is possible when one is physically repulsed by one's spouse? Imagine a wife repulsed by her husband, would you recommend she be less rigid and difficult and more accepting of him?

Ok. Here are some compromises:

1). You could generally be pleasant when around each other instead of leaving the room.

2) You could sometimes touch a shoulder or sit next to each other at a meal.

3). You could occasionally compliment something about her (clothes, parenting, funny joke, etc)

4). You could talk about your personal triumphs and difficulties with the kids.

5). You could tell her about your job and whatever is going on there

6). You could tell amusing anecdotes that you know would make her laugh

7). You could do something that’s normally her job if you know she is busy and tell her that you did it to help her out

8). You could tell your kids, in front of her, that they are lucky to have their mom because of xyz. Even if it’s just her income.

9). You could refrain from criticism that isn’t really that constructive.

10). You could smile when she walks in the room, even if you aren’t feeling it.

And you would tell the wife, the same thing if the roles were reversed? You’d be telling the wife just to suck it up and be nicer to the husband? I guarantee not.

DP

Absolutely.

My read of that list was a real therapist gave that to a couple and told them to both do at least 1-2 of those daily.

It’s basic conversating. Kids need to see that too. And develop and practice that skill.

There is no hope because OP is probably having an EA with someone else.

Why is there no hope of the marriage ever going back? You are both still alive, why not fall back in love again? Yes, I’m the poster who was described as “describing a fairy tale” and all I can say is I’m glad I’m not that poster, what a miserable way to view the world.

OP, you mention your wife’s stress and anger and lack of empathy. I’d be miserable too if my husband minimized my concerns and stress. I’ve found that the things I think about and care about as a parent are things I never thought I’d care about before I had kids. I’ve also found that I really need validation from my husband especially when the kids are being snots. When I don’t get that, I become a raving b***.
I’m also really uncomfortable that you want your wife to take meds. You don’t want to be a husband to her yet you want her to still do what you want. That’s abusive.
You also don’t seem to “get” that she doesn’t have to go along with what you want, though she’s probably desperate to keep her family together. I think you are using that desire to treat her horribly.
Don’t be surprised if she decides to divorce you. She’s probably worried about how a girlfriend might treat her kids especially the one with special needs as those kids are more likely to be abused.
Take meds if you need or want them, also know that love can do a lot for your mental health, though I’m sure you’ll find a way to minimize that as “just hormones” or whatever mean thing people say to disregard joy, love, beauty and anything fun warm and fuzzy.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you blame the special needs on her behavior or her genetics? Did her physical appearance change?

You're stating contradictory things: you can hardly stand her physical presence and you can't bear the sound of her voice, but you're cordial roommates who can sometimes even go out jointly with friends? How does this compute? Doesn't sound cordial.

Are you in therapy, OP? The PP who suggested a depression screening is not wrong. Antidepressants can be a total game changer. SN is very hard on the parents and on the marriage, I really empathize as a SN parent. But you can't let that implode everything forever, by and by you gotta be able to dig yourself out.

Acknowledge to her that she wants something else. Tell her you're not in a place to provide that. Tell her what you're willing to do to improve things, even if it's 5% of what she wants.

OP again. Your last paragraph is exactly where we're stuck. We've had that discussion a million times. But how do you deal with someone that won't accept that and doesn't want a divorce?

What’s your problem?

Your wife wants a home with a family in it working together.

YOU don’t.

Stop playing some weird game where you try to convince her to divorce you and want a divorce.

It takes ONE to divorce.

I don't want a divorce either. I get that you don't like the idea of a parenting marriage, but there's no reason every marriage has to look like what you envision.

DP. Your marriage doesn’t have to look like the traditional marriage that your wife envisions, but it doesn’t have to look exactly the way you imagine it either.
You seem completely unwilling to compromise on anything at all.

If nothing else, you should at least recognize that you are a rigid and difficult person who needs to have things your way. You accepting who you are would probably go a long way towards her accepting it.

What compromise is possible when one is physically repulsed by one's spouse? Imagine a wife repulsed by her husband, would you recommend she be less rigid and difficult and more accepting of him?

Ok. Here are some compromises:

1). You could generally be pleasant when around each other instead of leaving the room.

2) You could sometimes touch a shoulder or sit next to each other at a meal.

3). You could occasionally compliment something about her (clothes, parenting, funny joke, etc)

4). You could talk about your personal triumphs and difficulties with the kids.

5). You could tell her about your job and whatever is going on there

6). You could tell amusing anecdotes that you know would make her laugh

7). You could do something that’s normally her job if you know she is busy and tell her that you did it to help her out

8). You could tell your kids, in front of her, that they are lucky to have their mom because of xyz. Even if it’s just her income.

9). You could refrain from criticism that isn’t really that constructive.

10). You could smile when she walks in the room, even if you aren’t feeling it.

And you would tell the wife, the same thing if the roles were reversed? You’d be telling the wife just to suck it up and be nicer to the husband? I guarantee not.

What about any of the above do you feel is so difficult that you can’t do it?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you blame the special needs on her behavior or her genetics? Did her physical appearance change?

You're stating contradictory things: you can hardly stand her physical presence and you can't bear the sound of her voice, but you're cordial roommates who can sometimes even go out jointly with friends? How does this compute? Doesn't sound cordial.

Are you in therapy, OP? The PP who suggested a depression screening is not wrong. Antidepressants can be a total game changer. SN is very hard on the parents and on the marriage, I really empathize as a SN parent. But you can't let that implode everything forever, by and by you gotta be able to dig yourself out.

Acknowledge to her that she wants something else. Tell her you're not in a place to provide that. Tell her what you're willing to do to improve things, even if it's 5% of what she wants.

OP again. Your last paragraph is exactly where we're stuck. We've had that discussion a million times. But how do you deal with someone that won't accept that and doesn't want a divorce?

What’s your problem?

Your wife wants a home with a family in it working together.

YOU don’t.

Stop playing some weird game where you try to convince her to divorce you and want a divorce.

It takes ONE to divorce.

I don't want a divorce either. I get that you don't like the idea of a parenting marriage, but there's no reason every marriage has to look like what you envision.

DP. Your marriage doesn’t have to look like the traditional marriage that your wife envisions, but it doesn’t have to look exactly the way you imagine it either.
You seem completely unwilling to compromise on anything at all.

If nothing else, you should at least recognize that you are a rigid and difficult person who needs to have things your way. You accepting who you are would probably go a long way towards her accepting it.

What compromise is possible when one is physically repulsed by one's spouse? Imagine a wife repulsed by her husband, would you recommend she be less rigid and difficult and more accepting of him?

Ok. Here are some compromises:

1). You could generally be pleasant when around each other instead of leaving the room.

2) You could sometimes touch a shoulder or sit next to each other at a meal.

3). You could occasionally compliment something about her (clothes, parenting, funny joke, etc)

4). You could talk about your personal triumphs and difficulties with the kids.

5). You could tell her about your job and whatever is going on there

6). You could tell amusing anecdotes that you know would make her laugh

7). You could do something that’s normally her job if you know she is busy and tell her that you did it to help her out

8). You could tell your kids, in front of her, that they are lucky to have their mom because of xyz. Even if it’s just her income.

9). You could refrain from criticism that isn’t really that constructive.

10). You could smile when she walks in the room, even if you aren’t feeling it.

And you would tell the wife, the same thing if the roles were reversed? You’d be telling the wife just to suck it up and be nicer to the husband? I guarantee not.

The initial posts were gender neutral, and I think that most people assumed this was the wife. The responses were still to work on things and to suck it up.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you blame the special needs on her behavior or her genetics? Did her physical appearance change?

You're stating contradictory things: you can hardly stand her physical presence and you can't bear the sound of her voice, but you're cordial roommates who can sometimes even go out jointly with friends? How does this compute? Doesn't sound cordial.

Are you in therapy, OP? The PP who suggested a depression screening is not wrong. Antidepressants can be a total game changer. SN is very hard on the parents and on the marriage, I really empathize as a SN parent. But you can't let that implode everything forever, by and by you gotta be able to dig yourself out.

Acknowledge to her that she wants something else. Tell her you're not in a place to provide that. Tell her what you're willing to do to improve things, even if it's 5% of what she wants.

OP again. Your last paragraph is exactly where we're stuck. We've had that discussion a million times. But how do you deal with someone that won't accept that and doesn't want a divorce?

What’s your problem?

Your wife wants a home with a family in it working together.

YOU don’t.

Stop playing some weird game where you try to convince her to divorce you and want a divorce.

It takes ONE to divorce.

I don't want a divorce either. I get that you don't like the idea of a parenting marriage, but there's no reason every marriage has to look like what you envision.

DP. Your marriage doesn’t have to look like the traditional marriage that your wife envisions, but it doesn’t have to look exactly the way you imagine it either.
You seem completely unwilling to compromise on anything at all.

If nothing else, you should at least recognize that you are a rigid and difficult person who needs to have things your way. You accepting who you are would probably go a long way towards her accepting it.

What compromise is possible when one is physically repulsed by one's spouse? Imagine a wife repulsed by her husband, would you recommend she be less rigid and difficult and more accepting of him?

Ok. Here are some compromises:

1). You could generally be pleasant when around each other instead of leaving the room.

2) You could sometimes touch a shoulder or sit next to each other at a meal.

3). You could occasionally compliment something about her (clothes, parenting, funny joke, etc)

4). You could talk about your personal triumphs and difficulties with the kids.

5). You could tell her about your job and whatever is going on there

6). You could tell amusing anecdotes that you know would make her laugh

7). You could do something that’s normally her job if you know she is busy and tell her that you did it to help her out

8). You could tell your kids, in front of her, that they are lucky to have their mom because of xyz. Even if it’s just her income.

9). You could refrain from criticism that isn’t really that constructive.

10). You could smile when she walks in the room, even if you aren’t feeling it.

And you would tell the wife, the same thing if the roles were reversed? You’d be telling the wife just to suck it up and be nicer to the husband? I guarantee not.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you blame the special needs on her behavior or her genetics? Did her physical appearance change?

You're stating contradictory things: you can hardly stand her physical presence and you can't bear the sound of her voice, but you're cordial roommates who can sometimes even go out jointly with friends? How does this compute? Doesn't sound cordial.

Are you in therapy, OP? The PP who suggested a depression screening is not wrong. Antidepressants can be a total game changer. SN is very hard on the parents and on the marriage, I really empathize as a SN parent. But you can't let that implode everything forever, by and by you gotta be able to dig yourself out.

Acknowledge to her that she wants something else. Tell her you're not in a place to provide that. Tell her what you're willing to do to improve things, even if it's 5% of what she wants.

OP again. Your last paragraph is exactly where we're stuck. We've had that discussion a million times. But how do you deal with someone that won't accept that and doesn't want a divorce?

What’s your problem?

Your wife wants a home with a family in it working together.

YOU don’t.

Stop playing some weird game where you try to convince her to divorce you and want a divorce.

It takes ONE to divorce.

I don't want a divorce either. I get that you don't like the idea of a parenting marriage, but there's no reason every marriage has to look like what you envision.

DP. Your marriage doesn’t have to look like the traditional marriage that your wife envisions, but it doesn’t have to look exactly the way you imagine it either.
You seem completely unwilling to compromise on anything at all.

If nothing else, you should at least recognize that you are a rigid and difficult person who needs to have things your way. You accepting who you are would probably go a long way towards her accepting it.

What compromise is possible when one is physically repulsed by one's spouse? Imagine a wife repulsed by her husband, would you recommend she be less rigid and difficult and more accepting of him?

Ok. Here are some compromises:

1). You could generally be pleasant when around each other instead of leaving the room.

2) You could sometimes touch a shoulder or sit next to each other at a meal.

3). You could occasionally compliment something about her (clothes, parenting, funny joke, etc)

4). You could talk about your personal triumphs and difficulties with the kids.

5). You could tell her about your job and whatever is going on there

6). You could tell amusing anecdotes that you know would make her laugh

7). You could do something that’s normally her job if you know she is busy and tell her that you did it to help her out

8). You could tell your kids, in front of her, that they are lucky to have their mom because of xyz. Even if it’s just her income.

9). You could refrain from criticism that isn’t really that constructive.

10). You could smile when she walks in the room, even if you aren’t feeling it.

These are great. hope people apply it not to Troll threads but great nonetheless.

How to be human and kind and civil, to family members.

Need to add Put your iPhone away at dinner and family time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you blame the special needs on her behavior or her genetics? Did her physical appearance change?

You're stating contradictory things: you can hardly stand her physical presence and you can't bear the sound of her voice, but you're cordial roommates who can sometimes even go out jointly with friends? How does this compute? Doesn't sound cordial.

Are you in therapy, OP? The PP who suggested a depression screening is not wrong. Antidepressants can be a total game changer. SN is very hard on the parents and on the marriage, I really empathize as a SN parent. But you can't let that implode everything forever, by and by you gotta be able to dig yourself out.

Acknowledge to her that she wants something else. Tell her you're not in a place to provide that. Tell her what you're willing to do to improve things, even if it's 5% of what she wants.

OP again. Your last paragraph is exactly where we're stuck. We've had that discussion a million times. But how do you deal with someone that won't accept that and doesn't want a divorce?

What’s your problem?

Your wife wants a home with a family in it working together.

YOU don’t.

Stop playing some weird game where you try to convince her to divorce you and want a divorce.

It takes ONE to divorce.

I don't want a divorce either. I get that you don't like the idea of a parenting marriage, but there's no reason every marriage has to look like what you envision.

DP. Your marriage doesn’t have to look like the traditional marriage that your wife envisions, but it doesn’t have to look exactly the way you imagine it either.
You seem completely unwilling to compromise on anything at all.

If nothing else, you should at least recognize that you are a rigid and difficult person who needs to have things your way. You accepting who you are would probably go a long way towards her accepting it.

What compromise is possible when one is physically repulsed by one's spouse? Imagine a wife repulsed by her husband, would you recommend she be less rigid and difficult and more accepting of him?

Ok. Here are some compromises:

1). You could generally be pleasant when around each other instead of leaving the room.

2) You could sometimes touch a shoulder or sit next to each other at a meal.

3). You could occasionally compliment something about her (clothes, parenting, funny joke, etc)

4). You could talk about your personal triumphs and difficulties with the kids.

5). You could tell her about your job and whatever is going on there

6). You could tell amusing anecdotes that you know would make her laugh

7). You could do something that’s normally her job if you know she is busy and tell her that you did it to help her out

8). You could tell your kids, in front of her, that they are lucky to have their mom because of xyz. Even if it’s just her income.

9). You could refrain from criticism that isn’t really that constructive.

10). You could smile when she walks in the room, even if you aren’t feeling it.

These are great. hope people apply it not to Troll threads but great nonetheless.

How to be human and kind and civil, to family members.

Thanks!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s really hard for me to say anything because I don’t know what kind of conflicts led you to this place. At some point you loved this person and married, and you have a special needs child which makes divorce harder.

What positive outcomes do you think are going to come out of a divorce?

I can’t comment on your situation either without knowing what kinds of conflicts happened and if reasonable or not to come back from.

Stress and anger, neglect and ignorance, black & white thinkers versus gray, lack of empathy vs empathy.

Simply put, even if our situation were possible to come back from, I'm not interested in that.

Why not? I'm not being judgmental here. Your situation sounds really tough and I'm sorry for you. I'm just curious why you wouldn't want to go back to how you felt when you first fell in love with this person. Not saying it's possible, by the way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So you want the convenience that your spouse provides to your life, without giving anything in return. Very sad for your spouse.

He seems to be providing convenience to his wife too. He is taking care of his kids. He just does not want to provide emotional support to the wife.

we really don't know that.
we don't know his job or demands, her job or demands, his role in the house or on the weekend or hers.
we don't know what "take care of the sn kid" means or what "take care of the other kid" means.
we don't know much except the regurgitated cliches OP patches discloses every page.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Do you blame the special needs on her behavior or her genetics? Did her physical appearance change?

You're stating contradictory things: you can hardly stand her physical presence and you can't bear the sound of her voice, but you're cordial roommates who can sometimes even go out jointly with friends? How does this compute? Doesn't sound cordial.

Are you in therapy, OP? The PP who suggested a depression screening is not wrong. Antidepressants can be a total game changer. SN is very hard on the parents and on the marriage, I really empathize as a SN parent. But you can't let that implode everything forever, by and by you gotta be able to dig yourself out.

Acknowledge to her that she wants something else. Tell her you're not in a place to provide that. Tell her what you're willing to do to improve things, even if it's 5% of what she wants.

OP again. Your last paragraph is exactly where we're stuck. We've had that discussion a million times. But how do you deal with someone that won't accept that and doesn't want a divorce?

What’s your problem?

Your wife wants a home with a family in it working together.

YOU don’t.

Stop playing some weird game where you try to convince her to divorce you and want a divorce.

It takes ONE to divorce.

I don't want a divorce either. I get that you don't like the idea of a parenting marriage, but there's no reason every marriage has to look like what you envision.

DP. Your marriage doesn’t have to look like the traditional marriage that your wife envisions, but it doesn’t have to look exactly the way you imagine it either.
You seem completely unwilling to compromise on anything at all.

If nothing else, you should at least recognize that you are a rigid and difficult person who needs to have things your way. You accepting who you are would probably go a long way towards her accepting it.

What compromise is possible when one is physically repulsed by one's spouse? Imagine a wife repulsed by her husband, would you recommend she be less rigid and difficult and more accepting of him?

Ok. Here are some compromises:

1). You could generally be pleasant when around each other instead of leaving the room.

2) You could sometimes touch a shoulder or sit next to each other at a meal.

3). You could occasionally compliment something about her (clothes, parenting, funny joke, etc)

4). You could talk about your personal triumphs and difficulties with the kids.

5). You could tell her about your job and whatever is going on there

6). You could tell amusing anecdotes that you know would make her laugh

7). You could do something that’s normally her job if you know she is busy and tell her that you did it to help her out

8). You could tell your kids, in front of her, that they are lucky to have their mom because of xyz. Even if it’s just her income.

9). You could refrain from criticism that isn’t really that constructive.

10). You could smile when she walks in the room, even if you aren’t feeling it.

These are great. hope people apply it not to Troll threads but great nonetheless.

How to be human and kind and civil, to family members.