Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most of you filling your teen’s summer weeks must have missed the Dr Gray thread about the importance of self play and less structure. This goes for teens too. Raising a bunch of robots with no personality. Kids that look great on paper but have no idea who they really are.

Have you ever been to sleepaway camp? It isn’t as structured as you think…especially for the teen ages.

Having grown up in the Midwest where no one does sleepaway camp and we all just bummed around all summer, I can tell you sleepaway camp fosters far more skills and independence than a summer home doing the various versions of “nothing” talking about here. My kids go and love it

I used to volunteer at a sleep away camp for 3 years as a teen and was also a nurse at various ones for multiple summers. They are completely structured. Down to when you wake up, where you are every hour, food handed to you, and lights out.

I can tell you the older teen counselors are only there to be with their friends and have sex at night. That was kinda insane to me how little they cared. And many girls of various ages came to me about being assaulted and my reports were brushed off a lot. So no, I don’t think it fosters independence at all. Parents just think it helps.

I work summers at a sleepaway camp (currently, not decades ago), and that is not my experience at all as an adult there. But they have been single gender camps. The teens pick their schedule and activities and can really lean into new skills and focus on a couple things, or they can try a variety of stuff, or they can spend the whole day reading if they want (but no one does). While wake up, lights out, and meals are at set times- they largely have control of their day. They make friends with kids that are maybe not their typical type, the counselors are all former campers that love being there. A lot of problem solving and conflict resolution they guide themselves goes on, they gain a ton of confidence, honestly, I have nothing negative to say about it. And while I spend summers working at camps-it is purely for fun because my kids love them, I don’t have any cash incentive or stake in the camps.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 13 year old is planning to spend the first half of the summer doing summer swim and then structuring his own time. He won’t be “doing nothing”, he’ll be busy but he will be doing things of his own choosing. In the past, that has included things like bike rides, baking, mowing lawns for $, pick up basketball, etc . . . He turns 14 late July and has already lined up a job for August.

His brother at 13 did summer swim in the a.m. and a musical theater production in the afternoon.

I’m the PP who said my son will be doing nothing. I guess it must be a difference in semantics because I’d say your son is doing nothing much as well, aside from the job in August. It’s not a value judgment from me.

I wasn't feeling judged by you, but by the person who said that teens don't "do nothing", they get into trouble. If I'd replied earlier I probably would have described it as "doing nothing" too. Kids will fill the time, and the things they fill it with won't necessarily be trouble.

+1. In my experience, teens find a lot less trouble than DCUM would have you believe. The kids are alright!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most of you filling your teen’s summer weeks must have missed the Dr Gray thread about the importance of self play and less structure. This goes for teens too. Raising a bunch of robots with no personality. Kids that look great on paper but have no idea who they really are.

Have you ever been to sleepaway camp? It isn’t as structured as you think…especially for the teen ages.

Having grown up in the Midwest where no one does sleepaway camp and we all just bummed around all summer, I can tell you sleepaway camp fosters far more skills and independence than a summer home doing the various versions of “nothing” talking about here. My kids go and love it

I used to volunteer at a sleep away camp for 3 years as a teen and was also a nurse at various ones for multiple summers. They are completely structured. Down to when you wake up, where you are every hour, food handed to you, and lights out.

I can tell you the older teen counselors are only there to be with their friends and have sex at night. That was kinda insane to me how little they cared. And many girls of various ages came to me about being assaulted and my reports were brushed off a lot. So no, I don’t think it fosters independence at all. Parents just think it helps.

I’m so glad you posted your experience. These are my deepest fears about Sleepaway camp and I am so grateful my daughter has never wanted to attend. I can’t imagine the possible atrocities like sexual assault that could happen just because of the opportunity and lack of supervision. Again, I thank you for your bravery and posting, and I encourage others to do so here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think most of you filling your teen’s summer weeks must have missed the Dr Gray thread about the importance of self play and less structure. This goes for teens too. Raising a bunch of robots with no personality. Kids that look great on paper but have no idea who they really are.

Have you ever been to sleepaway camp? It isn’t as structured as you think…especially for the teen ages.

Having grown up in the Midwest where no one does sleepaway camp and we all just bummed around all summer, I can tell you sleepaway camp fosters far more skills and independence than a summer home doing the various versions of “nothing” talking about here. My kids go and love it

I used to volunteer at a sleep away camp for 3 years as a teen and was also a nurse at various ones for multiple summers. They are completely structured. Down to when you wake up, where you are every hour, food handed to you, and lights out.

I can tell you the older teen counselors are only there to be with their friends and have sex at night. That was kinda insane to me how little they cared. And many girls of various ages came to me about being assaulted and my reports were brushed off a lot. So no, I don’t think it fosters independence at all. Parents just think it helps.

Anonymous wrote:I think most of you filling your teen’s summer weeks must have missed the Dr Gray thread about the importance of self play and less structure. This goes for teens too. Raising a bunch of robots with no personality. Kids that look great on paper but have no idea who they really are.

Have you ever been to sleepaway camp? It isn’t as structured as you think…especially for the teen ages.

Having grown up in the Midwest where no one does sleepaway camp and we all just bummed around all summer, I can tell you sleepaway camp fosters far more skills and independence than a summer home doing the various versions of “nothing” talking about here. My kids go and love it

Anonymous wrote:I think most of you filling your teen’s summer weeks must have missed the Dr Gray thread about the importance of self play and less structure. This goes for teens too. Raising a bunch of robots with no personality. Kids that look great on paper but have no idea who they really are.

Dr. Gray is so old and out of touch it’s laughable. Did you actually listen to that interview? He actually proposed Kids biking and taking public transportation to everywhere they need to go and parents should refuse to drive them. The guy is completely out of touch with reality.

I think most of you filling your teen’s summer weeks must have missed the Dr Gray thread about the importance of self play and less structure. This goes for teens too. Raising a bunch of robots with no personality. Kids that look great on paper but have no idea who they really are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people meaning by “swim team.”

IMO the neighborhood and country club pool “swim teams” that are often referenced are for kids under 12 and aren’t actual swim teams.

The genuine USA Swimming club swim teams train year round. Unless you are swimming regularly, you wouldn’t be able to keep up just jumping in for a few weeks in the summer, especially if swimming with 13 and over kids.

Summer swim team is not the same as cub swim. Some do both some don’t. My 13yo enjoys summer swim and doesn’t do club anymore. We are a division N pool. She swims in A meets and enjoys it.

But where are these summer swim teams that aren’t club? The only ones I know of are for little kids

Seriously where do you live. Every single country club and suburban pool has summer swim 6-18yrs old

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am shocked that people just send their kids off to months of camps. Don’t you miss them? My kids are the best during summer. It’s so much more laxed. No grades to argue about. Watching them work, volunteer, find things to do with friends, and go on weekend vacations with us or their friends

I just can’t imagine an empty house all summer. That’s just sad to me.

You do you. My kids love their specialty day camp and their four weeks at overnight camp. They experience and learn a level of independence they’d never get at home for an entire summer. They focus on their own interests and meet new people.

Some people view camps as opportunities to explore new people, places and experiences, which is a foundation of raising well rounded, independent children who can navigate different social settings well. If you think keeping them home with you can provide them the same opportunities, good on you.

Um you didn’t answer the question lol. You just rationalized your reasoning why they aren’t at home.

Sleep away camp, regular boy scout camp, and then a high adventure scout camp. Then a week at Calleva and then the remaining weeks we.will mostly be on vacation.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people meaning by “swim team.”

IMO the neighborhood and country club pool “swim teams” that are often referenced are for kids under 12 and aren’t actual swim teams.

The genuine USA Swimming club swim teams train year round. Unless you are swimming regularly, you wouldn’t be able to keep up just jumping in for a few weeks in the summer, especially if swimming with 13 and over kids.

Summer swim team is not the same as cub swim. Some do both some don’t. My 13yo enjoys summer swim and doesn’t do club anymore. We are a division N pool. She swims in A meets and enjoys it.

But where are these summer swim teams that aren’t club? The only ones I know of are for little kids

Pretty much every swimming pool in the suburbs has one.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:What are people meaning by “swim team.”

IMO the neighborhood and country club pool “swim teams” that are often referenced are for kids under 12 and aren’t actual swim teams.

The genuine USA Swimming club swim teams train year round. Unless you are swimming regularly, you wouldn’t be able to keep up just jumping in for a few weeks in the summer, especially if swimming with 13 and over kids.

Summer swim team is not the same as cub swim. Some do both some don’t. My 13yo enjoys summer swim and doesn’t do club anymore. We are a division N pool. She swims in A meets and enjoys it.

But where are these summer swim teams that aren’t club? The only ones I know of are for little kids

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My 13 year old is planning to spend the first half of the summer doing summer swim and then structuring his own time. He won’t be “doing nothing”, he’ll be busy but he will be doing things of his own choosing. In the past, that has included things like bike rides, baking, mowing lawns for $, pick up basketball, etc . . . He turns 14 late July and has already lined up a job for August.

His brother at 13 did summer swim in the a.m. and a musical theater production in the afternoon.

I’m the PP who said my son will be doing nothing. I guess it must be a difference in semantics because I’d say your son is doing nothing much as well, aside from the job in August. It’s not a value judgment from me.

I wasn't feeling judged by you, but by the person who said that teens don't "do nothing", they get into trouble. If I'd replied earlier I probably would have described it as "doing nothing" too. Kids will fill the time, and the things they fill it with won't necessarily be trouble.

Anonymous wrote:My 13 year old is planning to spend the first half of the summer doing summer swim and then structuring his own time. He won’t be “doing nothing”, he’ll be busy but he will be doing things of his own choosing. In the past, that has included things like bike rides, baking, mowing lawns for $, pick up basketball, etc . . . He turns 14 late July and has already lined up a job for August.

His brother at 13 did summer swim in the a.m. and a musical theater production in the afternoon.

I’m the PP who said my son will be doing nothing. I guess it must be a difference in semantics because I’d say your son is doing nothing much as well, aside from the job in August. It’s not a value judgment from me.

Anonymous wrote:I am shocked that people just send their kids off to months of camps. Don’t you miss them? My kids are the best during summer. It’s so much more laxed. No grades to argue about. Watching them work, volunteer, find things to do with friends, and go on weekend vacations with us or their friends

I just can’t imagine an empty house all summer. That’s just sad to me.

Not all parents enjoy their kids. Not all kids enjoy their parents.