Anonymous wrote:That might be click bait overstatement, but she had a point. Eating out is a waste of money, but not the biggest.

Yeah, I mean, a lot of people spend far more money eating out than they realize. Most of us would be far better off without it. And yet, most of us do it and enjoy it. We're not perfect. It's all about balance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am extremely frugal and I hate spending money on food. I eat very cheaply. I don’t drink coffee or alcohol. Tried them both once and they were disgusting. My mom told me people buy coffee and alcohol just to be cool and most of them dump it out anyway. I do eat out for convenience but anytime I spend money on anything I feel bad so it’s not worth it to me.

Um, no. Your mother was either lying to you or had absolutely no idea what she was talking about.

Yes, this is an absolutely insane conversation you were having with your mother. I would like to hear more from you. Do you have a newsletter or anything?

Anonymous wrote:I am extremely frugal and I hate spending money on food. I eat very cheaply. I don’t drink coffee or alcohol. Tried them both once and they were disgusting. My mom told me people buy coffee and alcohol just to be cool and most of them dump it out anyway. I do eat out for convenience but anytime I spend money on anything I feel bad so it’s not worth it to me.

Um, no. Your mother was either lying to you or had absolutely no idea what she was talking about.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many rich people are surprisingly frugal. They don't just waste money because they have it.
They actively make decisions of what to spend their money on.

This. Borrow “The Millionaire Next Door” from your local library. Most popular car for millionaires in the US is a Ford F-150, not Lexus, not Mercedes, not BMW, not Jaguar, not Land Rover, …. Admittedly, that F-150 probably is at one of the higher trim levels, but still this fact surprises many people.

One’s spend rate often is visible, but many people’s actual wealth/net worth often is not so visible. Often, someone with a low/lower spend rate has more wealth than one might guess from looking at that spend rate.

But also, any F-150 costs at least $50K, and most of them aren't being driven by ranchers or contractors.

People find ways to spend more money than is absolutely "necessary," which means everyone wastes money, assuming that by "waste money" you mean "buys something other than the least-expensive option for survival.

But they could easily be spending $80K+ for a luxury vehicle. So while yes, they could be totting around in a Toyota Yaris (if they still make it---or the equivalent tiny, barely a large lawn mower engine car) and still get from point A to B. Point is they only spend $50K for a car when many spend a lot more.
Finances is all about choice, even if you are a millionaire. But it's also largely about choosing to save. If you save a decent portion, then you get to decide how to allocate the remainder. For some it's flying first class, for some it's luxury hotels, for others it cars or high end dining. You spend on what gives you the most pleasure, but all within the realm of a "budget" even as a multi-millionaire.

And not to harp on this, but it's pretty easy to spend >$80K on an F-150, which at its lowest is still more expensive than the least-expensive BMW, Lexus, or Mercedes.

I don't mean this as a discussion about cars per se. I mean this as a way of saying that a lot of people are sure other people are spending too much on X when they don't actually know what X costs, and they propose Y as an alternative when Y is actually more expensive and possibly not well-suited to someone's actual need. They just like the vehicle or the vacation or the remodel, and then they justify it as a financially sensible choice.

In our 20’s through our 50’s we really lived the lives we wanted to live but it was all about balance. Enjoy life in the short term and invest for the long term. Before kids we traveled to Europe every spring and often ate out. But, it was far from first class but we loved it. In our 30’s and 40’s with 3 kids and two careers, family and work dominated our lives with travel mostly to visit family. And we loved those years. Throughout all those years we were investing for the future. After 50 and now in retirement we travel a lot, eat out often and spend ridiculous amounts on just enjoying life. But for almost 40 years it was all about balance. We never deprived ourselves, but we never indulged. The math is so simple about saving at an early age but you can do it and enjoy life as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She probably has someone who cooks for her at home. No way is Suze cooking up a grilled cheese for dinner.

This -
She has staff and they cook and serve her. She probably gets taken out to eat on others' dime.

+1000

And she doesn’t have kids. She’s never had to work a 8:30-5, pick up kids from aftercare, then rush home to throw together taco night while the other spouse totes the kids around to sports practices.

So splurging on take out from Uber eats on a Sat. night after the kids go to bed while we watch a Netflix show is how we unwind and enjoy a date night at home. It’s also a drop in the bucket compared to all the years of daycare/preschool costs and what we throw into their 529s.

Lol at maybe $300 a month on takeout having a noticeable effect on our finances compared to childcare, housing, and college savings. Also that $300/month keeps us from totally burning out.

And we do make coffee at home (no Starbucks) but that is because we had the funds to buy one of those fancy machines that makes lattes, espresso, etc. So I would never begrudge someone splurging on an $8 drink on occasion just because they can’t afford an $800 coffee maker.

I, on the other hand, totally do begrudge someone their $8 fancy drink if they're not also taking care of their financial future. I'm the poster who said I read Suze in my 20s. I never, ever hit Starbucks during that decade of my life. Nor did I drink any alcohol at all. I went out with my friends, but my bill was always lower than everyone else's, because I had paid myself first, and thus I had less income left over with which to splurge. I worked my whole lifestyle around what was left after I saved for my future. A big reason why I did this was the education I received from reading Suze Orman.

Today, our HHI is high and we blow lots of money. After saving for retirement and contributing to the kids' college, we use our income to do fun things like eat out. We belong to a country club. I do hit Starbucks a couple of times a month. I do feel entitled to all kinds of luxuries now that I've worked for decades and sacrificed many of life's little pleasures when I was younger in trade for the great feeling that building a solid financial foundation brought me. Now HHI is high enough that what's left over after saving is still a lot.

I have kept several friends from my teenage years. We are now in totally different financial spots and we're at the age where they're getting nervous about it. I remember feeling incredulous and silently judgy when I'd watch how they spent when we were young. Lots of dining out, lots of drinking, lots of fancy coffee, vacations. Again, don't begrudge anyone these things, as long as they're buying them with the money that's left over after they've saved an adequate amount. That's Suze's point. And that $300/mo that is negligible to you can actually build great wealth for someone who starts saving it early. $3600/year saved for 45 years at 8% growth becomes about $1.4 million. That's a lot more than most people accumulate, and it's because most people waste too much relative to their income.

How sad. Sounds like you wasted your 20s, that should be the best decade of your life. If you were more rational you would have smoothed your consumption more appropriately over your lifetime and you could have had more fun and not stiffed your friends on the bill.

Sounds like the PP hit a nerve.

Not really. I had a lot of fun in my 20s, spent a lot on travel and eating/drinking out, and still ended up with plenty of money, a vacation home etc. If I have any regrets it is that I didn’t spend more when I was younger, eg eating in restaurants abroad rather than having bread and cheese for lunch in my early twenties.

It is really about balance. I just get annoyed by these people who think there is something virtuous about ruining your 20s by working like a dog and deferring all your enjoyment till you are in your 50s and too old to sample life’s pleasures with the same gusto.

See, it did hit a nerve. You can have fun when you’re young without doing all those things. It’s all about balance and what makes you happy. I’m happier now looking at my bank balance than trying to remember an evening of inane conversation and bar-hopping in my twenties.

DP: The PP said she sacrificed many of life's little pleasures when she was young. And that's she was incredulous and judgy about her friends. Why? So she can enjoy a country club now and have more money to throw around as her middle-aged whims now take her. w You get fewer years of less impressionable memories of the things you do in middle age versus what you do when you are young. One scrappy trip to Europe when you are 20 shapes your life in ways that 10x more pricey vacations in your 40s does not. Yes there's a time value of money you invest when you're young, but there's also a time value of having experiences--some of which may cost more money than seem reasonable for your current finances when you are in your 20s. I'm not saying mindlessly wasting money on things that don't provide value, but if you get over-focused on saving/investing/living for your financial future you spend too much of your precious short life smiling over a growing bank balance. I think Orman is just too much about prepping for your financial future and not balanced enough about enjoying life. I prefer the financial advice of those who are less about fear and more about aligning your finances with your values and extracting the most value from your money over your lifespan--not about sacrificing your life when you are young so that you can grow your bank balance so big that you will always feel safe.

I am middle-aged and started contributing to a Roth IRA with my first teen job and would be deemed an "oversaver" by the millionaire next door types, but I still see value in spending on valuable experiences when you are young--and maybe those are in a coffee shop, restaurant, on a trip, in a bar -- even if you don't quite have the means yet to prepare adequately for your full financial future. They give you memories and social connections for life while your brain is still developing and while you're deciding who you are and what you want to do in the world. It's worth it even if it doesn't make financial sense in the moment. I went abroad for 2 years in my 20s and scrounged around--working just enough to keep going-- not contributing to retirement, seemingly not growing my career and all I regret is that I was too tight with my money to fully make the most of that time. I could have made more connections, experienced more, laid the groundwork for more serendipitous connections that have served me well most of my life (In addition to memories and cultural knowledge, I have gotten great jobs, made friends, have stayed for free in places abroad from the connections that I made then). I have more money than I need now, but no travel I do now will have the same impact as when it was all new to me. Sure it would may have been more financially prudent to take a job with a 401k and health benefits and start compounding more money even earlier, but at what cost to the quality of my life? And what really happened was that spending that money on the trip and the expansive effect it had on my mind and social world opened up far more opportunities than I would have had grinding away at the entry level job I could have gotten out of college--which likely improved my finances in a less predictable way.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She probably has someone who cooks for her at home. No way is Suze cooking up a grilled cheese for dinner.

This -
She has staff and they cook and serve her. She probably gets taken out to eat on others' dime.

+1000

And she doesn’t have kids. She’s never had to work a 8:30-5, pick up kids from aftercare, then rush home to throw together taco night while the other spouse totes the kids around to sports practices.

So splurging on take out from Uber eats on a Sat. night after the kids go to bed while we watch a Netflix show is how we unwind and enjoy a date night at home. It’s also a drop in the bucket compared to all the years of daycare/preschool costs and what we throw into their 529s.

Lol at maybe $300 a month on takeout having a noticeable effect on our finances compared to childcare, housing, and college savings. Also that $300/month keeps us from totally burning out.

And we do make coffee at home (no Starbucks) but that is because we had the funds to buy one of those fancy machines that makes lattes, espresso, etc. So I would never begrudge someone splurging on an $8 drink on occasion just because they can’t afford an $800 coffee maker.

I, on the other hand, totally do begrudge someone their $8 fancy drink if they're not also taking care of their financial future. I'm the poster who said I read Suze in my 20s. I never, ever hit Starbucks during that decade of my life. Nor did I drink any alcohol at all. I went out with my friends, but my bill was always lower than everyone else's, because I had paid myself first, and thus I had less income left over with which to splurge. I worked my whole lifestyle around what was left after I saved for my future. A big reason why I did this was the education I received from reading Suze Orman.

Today, our HHI is high and we blow lots of money. After saving for retirement and contributing to the kids' college, we use our income to do fun things like eat out. We belong to a country club. I do hit Starbucks a couple of times a month. I do feel entitled to all kinds of luxuries now that I've worked for decades and sacrificed many of life's little pleasures when I was younger in trade for the great feeling that building a solid financial foundation brought me. Now HHI is high enough that what's left over after saving is still a lot.

I have kept several friends from my teenage years. We are now in totally different financial spots and we're at the age where they're getting nervous about it. I remember feeling incredulous and silently judgy when I'd watch how they spent when we were young. Lots of dining out, lots of drinking, lots of fancy coffee, vacations. Again, don't begrudge anyone these things, as long as they're buying them with the money that's left over after they've saved an adequate amount. That's Suze's point. And that $300/mo that is negligible to you can actually build great wealth for someone who starts saving it early. $3600/year saved for 45 years at 8% growth becomes about $1.4 million. That's a lot more than most people accumulate, and it's because most people waste too much relative to their income.

How sad. Sounds like you wasted your 20s, that should be the best decade of your life. If you were more rational you would have smoothed your consumption more appropriately over your lifetime and you could have had more fun and not stiffed your friends on the bill.

Sounds like the PP hit a nerve.

Not really. I had a lot of fun in my 20s, spent a lot on travel and eating/drinking out, and still ended up with plenty of money, a vacation home etc. If I have any regrets it is that I didn’t spend more when I was younger, eg eating in restaurants abroad rather than having bread and cheese for lunch in my early twenties.

It is really about balance. I just get annoyed by these people who think there is something virtuous about ruining your 20s by working like a dog and deferring all your enjoyment till you are in your 50s and too old to sample life’s pleasures with the same gusto.

Find a balance. You can easily have fun in your 20s without "working like a dog and deferring all enjoyment". You likely just finished college and lived quite frugally. So why not continue like that, with a few splurges while you pay off your loans and get on a great footing for your late 20s and beyond. For us it only took 3 years to pay off the student loans and save downpayment for a house. Yeah, we lived frugally, but it was a huge upgrade from our "college living". We picked a mid level apartment lived in by mostly professionals. Saving $500/month on the apartment meant we could put that towards loans. I didn't need granite kitchen, fancy appliances---heck I didn't even have laundry in my apartment---but it was in a bldg of 6 apartments and we had 2 W/2D in the basement shared by only the 6 apt. Huge upgrade from the college dorm/apartments.
I enjoyed my "packed at home lunches" in the cafeteria with my co-workers---never felt like I was missing out on something---I saved $8+ per day and probably ate healthier. I would join them every 1-2 weeks if a group went out for lunch. Would join for happy hour/dinner with friends/co-workers 1-2x/month. It was more fun to gather at apartments with friends and get takeout, make our own drinks and play games than go to a fancy restaurant. Really not missing out on much in your 20s if you don't dine out 3+ times per week.

We went on driving vacations where we could explore the country within 5-6 hours from us---many times they were linked to attending a wedding (we were in our 20s). Was I missing out by staying at a Courtyard by Marriott instead of a JWMarriott? Don't really think so. Life was fun.

However, knowing that we'd paid off $60K of student loans and saved enough to own a 10 yo 4 bed/2.5 bath by the time we were 28, in a decent neighborhood was worth it. Then we could split what we saved between savings and "entertainment/living life". We were on an excellent financial path by 28---seems worth the being a bit frugal to do that in your 20s so you can splurge in your 30s and beyond. First trip to Europe at 28 and never looked back.

Now I'm in my 50s, fly first class 95% of time, think nothing of paying $800+/night for hotels while on vacation (but still always looking for a great deal), go out to eat or get UberEats 4+ times/week and some weeks its every day, drive a high end BMW, etc.

Been "enjoying life fully" since late 20s, and enjoyed the early 20s, just at a scaled back level. Seems worth it to me to get out of debt and onto a good financial track, especially when our 20s was still an upgrade over the past 4-6 years of college and grad school.

She’s trying to make a point. She should also harp on I never lease or finance cars, too. Has she started saying that?

I am extremely frugal and I hate spending money on food. I eat very cheaply. I don’t drink coffee or alcohol. Tried them both once and they were disgusting. My mom told me people buy coffee and alcohol just to be cool and most of them dump it out anyway. I do eat out for convenience but anytime I spend money on anything I feel bad so it’s not worth it to me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many rich people are surprisingly frugal. They don't just waste money because they have it.
They actively make decisions of what to spend their money on.

This. Borrow “The Millionaire Next Door” from your local library. Most popular car for millionaires in the US is a Ford F-150, not Lexus, not Mercedes, not BMW, not Jaguar, not Land Rover, …. Admittedly, that F-150 probably is at one of the higher trim levels, but still this fact surprises many people.

One’s spend rate often is visible, but many people’s actual wealth/net worth often is not so visible. Often, someone with a low/lower spend rate has more wealth than one might guess from looking at that spend rate.

But also, any F-150 costs at least $50K, and most of them aren't being driven by ranchers or contractors.

People find ways to spend more money than is absolutely "necessary," which means everyone wastes money, assuming that by "waste money" you mean "buys something other than the least-expensive option for survival.

But they could easily be spending $80K+ for a luxury vehicle. So while yes, they could be totting around in a Toyota Yaris (if they still make it---or the equivalent tiny, barely a large lawn mower engine car) and still get from point A to B. Point is they only spend $50K for a car when many spend a lot more.
Finances is all about choice, even if you are a millionaire. But it's also largely about choosing to save. If you save a decent portion, then you get to decide how to allocate the remainder. For some it's flying first class, for some it's luxury hotels, for others it cars or high end dining. You spend on what gives you the most pleasure, but all within the realm of a "budget" even as a multi-millionaire.

Does she go to a spa, buy books, go to a gym or ever get her nails done? Going out to dinner allows me to relax for one night of no cooking or cleaning.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She probably has someone who cooks for her at home. No way is Suze cooking up a grilled cheese for dinner.

This -
She has staff and they cook and serve her. She probably gets taken out to eat on others' dime.

+1000

And she doesn’t have kids. She’s never had to work a 8:30-5, pick up kids from aftercare, then rush home to throw together taco night while the other spouse totes the kids around to sports practices.

So splurging on take out from Uber eats on a Sat. night after the kids go to bed while we watch a Netflix show is how we unwind and enjoy a date night at home. It’s also a drop in the bucket compared to all the years of daycare/preschool costs and what we throw into their 529s.

Lol at maybe $300 a month on takeout having a noticeable effect on our finances compared to childcare, housing, and college savings. Also that $300/month keeps us from totally burning out.

And we do make coffee at home (no Starbucks) but that is because we had the funds to buy one of those fancy machines that makes lattes, espresso, etc. So I would never begrudge someone splurging on an $8 drink on occasion just because they can’t afford an $800 coffee maker.

I, on the other hand, totally do begrudge someone their $8 fancy drink if they're not also taking care of their financial future. I'm the poster who said I read Suze in my 20s. I never, ever hit Starbucks during that decade of my life. Nor did I drink any alcohol at all. I went out with my friends, but my bill was always lower than everyone else's, because I had paid myself first, and thus I had less income left over with which to splurge. I worked my whole lifestyle around what was left after I saved for my future. A big reason why I did this was the education I received from reading Suze Orman.

Today, our HHI is high and we blow lots of money. After saving for retirement and contributing to the kids' college, we use our income to do fun things like eat out. We belong to a country club. I do hit Starbucks a couple of times a month. I do feel entitled to all kinds of luxuries now that I've worked for decades and sacrificed many of life's little pleasures when I was younger in trade for the great feeling that building a solid financial foundation brought me. Now HHI is high enough that what's left over after saving is still a lot.

I have kept several friends from my teenage years. We are now in totally different financial spots and we're at the age where they're getting nervous about it. I remember feeling incredulous and silently judgy when I'd watch how they spent when we were young. Lots of dining out, lots of drinking, lots of fancy coffee, vacations. Again, don't begrudge anyone these things, as long as they're buying them with the money that's left over after they've saved an adequate amount. That's Suze's point. And that $300/mo that is negligible to you can actually build great wealth for someone who starts saving it early. $3600/year saved for 45 years at 8% growth becomes about $1.4 million. That's a lot more than most people accumulate, and it's because most people waste too much relative to their income.

I wish I had your POV when I was young. Although I did always save for retirement with my first job out of college. I just wish I had maximized the full amount I could put in versus the match. And I wish I had better prioritized non-retirement savings.

Your perspective is why financial literacy should be taught in school from elementary through high school. Saving money when you are young opens up so many avenues to you that wouldn’t otherwise exist.

This^^^

It doesn't have to be an "all or nothing" approach. Sure you can get your Starbucks or dine out or have drinks with friends. But have it as a budget line and once it's spent for the month it's gone. So you have to decide--I have $X per month for this category, is getting a $7 Starbucks drink daily how I want to spend it, or do I only get it once a week?
You also have to learn to "pay yourself"---that means saving. A fresh college grad should certainly start "paying themselves" once student loans are paid off. And ideally should want to have a plan to pay those loans off as fast as possible.

My own college grad does this. They have no loans, but they budget how much for "entertainment" and try to stick to it. They also save a good portion of their income because that's how they've always been. Still has tons of fun. It does help that most of their friends have major student loans and have to be much more frugal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She probably has someone who cooks for her at home. No way is Suze cooking up a grilled cheese for dinner.

This -
She has staff and they cook and serve her. She probably gets taken out to eat on others' dime.

+1000

And she doesn’t have kids. She’s never had to work a 8:30-5, pick up kids from aftercare, then rush home to throw together taco night while the other spouse totes the kids around to sports practices.

So splurging on take out from Uber eats on a Sat. night after the kids go to bed while we watch a Netflix show is how we unwind and enjoy a date night at home. It’s also a drop in the bucket compared to all the years of daycare/preschool costs and what we throw into their 529s.

Lol at maybe $300 a month on takeout having a noticeable effect on our finances compared to childcare, housing, and college savings. Also that $300/month keeps us from totally burning out.

And we do make coffee at home (no Starbucks) but that is because we had the funds to buy one of those fancy machines that makes lattes, espresso, etc. So I would never begrudge someone splurging on an $8 drink on occasion just because they can’t afford an $800 coffee maker.

I, on the other hand, totally do begrudge someone their $8 fancy drink if they're not also taking care of their financial future. I'm the poster who said I read Suze in my 20s. I never, ever hit Starbucks during that decade of my life. Nor did I drink any alcohol at all. I went out with my friends, but my bill was always lower than everyone else's, because I had paid myself first, and thus I had less income left over with which to splurge. I worked my whole lifestyle around what was left after I saved for my future. A big reason why I did this was the education I received from reading Suze Orman.

Today, our HHI is high and we blow lots of money. After saving for retirement and contributing to the kids' college, we use our income to do fun things like eat out. We belong to a country club. I do hit Starbucks a couple of times a month. I do feel entitled to all kinds of luxuries now that I've worked for decades and sacrificed many of life's little pleasures when I was younger in trade for the great feeling that building a solid financial foundation brought me. Now HHI is high enough that what's left over after saving is still a lot.

I have kept several friends from my teenage years. We are now in totally different financial spots and we're at the age where they're getting nervous about it. I remember feeling incredulous and silently judgy when I'd watch how they spent when we were young. Lots of dining out, lots of drinking, lots of fancy coffee, vacations. Again, don't begrudge anyone these things, as long as they're buying them with the money that's left over after they've saved an adequate amount. That's Suze's point. And that $300/mo that is negligible to you can actually build great wealth for someone who starts saving it early. $3600/year saved for 45 years at 8% growth becomes about $1.4 million. That's a lot more than most people accumulate, and it's because most people waste too much relative to their income.

How sad. Sounds like you wasted your 20s, that should be the best decade of your life. If you were more rational you would have smoothed your consumption more appropriately over your lifetime and you could have had more fun and not stiffed your friends on the bill.

Sounds like the PP hit a nerve.

Not really. I had a lot of fun in my 20s, spent a lot on travel and eating/drinking out, and still ended up with plenty of money, a vacation home etc. If I have any regrets it is that I didn’t spend more when I was younger, eg eating in restaurants abroad rather than having bread and cheese for lunch in my early twenties.

It is really about balance. I just get annoyed by these people who think there is something virtuous about ruining your 20s by working like a dog and deferring all your enjoyment till you are in your 50s and too old to sample life’s pleasures with the same gusto.

See, it did hit a nerve. You can have fun when you’re young without doing all those things. It’s all about balance and what makes you happy. I’m happier now looking at my bank balance than trying to remember an evening of inane conversation and bar-hopping in my twenties.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:She probably has someone who cooks for her at home. No way is Suze cooking up a grilled cheese for dinner.

This -
She has staff and they cook and serve her. She probably gets taken out to eat on others' dime.

+1000

And she doesn’t have kids. She’s never had to work a 8:30-5, pick up kids from aftercare, then rush home to throw together taco night while the other spouse totes the kids around to sports practices.

So splurging on take out from Uber eats on a Sat. night after the kids go to bed while we watch a Netflix show is how we unwind and enjoy a date night at home. It’s also a drop in the bucket compared to all the years of daycare/preschool costs and what we throw into their 529s.

Lol at maybe $300 a month on takeout having a noticeable effect on our finances compared to childcare, housing, and college savings. Also that $300/month keeps us from totally burning out.

And we do make coffee at home (no Starbucks) but that is because we had the funds to buy one of those fancy machines that makes lattes, espresso, etc. So I would never begrudge someone splurging on an $8 drink on occasion just because they can’t afford an $800 coffee maker.

I, on the other hand, totally do begrudge someone their $8 fancy drink if they're not also taking care of their financial future. I'm the poster who said I read Suze in my 20s. I never, ever hit Starbucks during that decade of my life. Nor did I drink any alcohol at all. I went out with my friends, but my bill was always lower than everyone else's, because I had paid myself first, and thus I had less income left over with which to splurge. I worked my whole lifestyle around what was left after I saved for my future. A big reason why I did this was the education I received from reading Suze Orman.

Today, our HHI is high and we blow lots of money. After saving for retirement and contributing to the kids' college, we use our income to do fun things like eat out. We belong to a country club. I do hit Starbucks a couple of times a month. I do feel entitled to all kinds of luxuries now that I've worked for decades and sacrificed many of life's little pleasures when I was younger in trade for the great feeling that building a solid financial foundation brought me. Now HHI is high enough that what's left over after saving is still a lot.

I have kept several friends from my teenage years. We are now in totally different financial spots and we're at the age where they're getting nervous about it. I remember feeling incredulous and silently judgy when I'd watch how they spent when we were young. Lots of dining out, lots of drinking, lots of fancy coffee, vacations. Again, don't begrudge anyone these things, as long as they're buying them with the money that's left over after they've saved an adequate amount. That's Suze's point. And that $300/mo that is negligible to you can actually build great wealth for someone who starts saving it early. $3600/year saved for 45 years at 8% growth becomes about $1.4 million. That's a lot more than most people accumulate, and it's because most people waste too much relative to their income.

How sad. Sounds like you wasted your 20s, that should be the best decade of your life. If you were more rational you would have smoothed your consumption more appropriately over your lifetime and you could have had more fun and not stiffed your friends on the bill.

Sounds like the PP hit a nerve.

Not really. I had a lot of fun in my 20s, spent a lot on travel and eating/drinking out, and still ended up with plenty of money, a vacation home etc. If I have any regrets it is that I didn’t spend more when I was younger, eg eating in restaurants abroad rather than having bread and cheese for lunch in my early twenties.

It is really about balance. I just get annoyed by these people who think there is something virtuous about ruining your 20s by working like a dog and deferring all your enjoyment till you are in your 50s and too old to sample life’s pleasures with the same gusto.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Many rich people are surprisingly frugal. They don't just waste money because they have it.
They actively make decisions of what to spend their money on.

This. Borrow “The Millionaire Next Door” from your local library. Most popular car for millionaires in the US is a Ford F-150, not Lexus, not Mercedes, not BMW, not Jaguar, not Land Rover, …. Admittedly, that F-150 probably is at one of the higher trim levels, but still this fact surprises many people.

One’s spend rate often is visible, but many people’s actual wealth/net worth often is not so visible. Often, someone with a low/lower spend rate has more wealth than one might guess from looking at that spend rate.

But also, any F-150 costs at least $50K, and most of them aren't being driven by ranchers or contractors.

People find ways to spend more money than is absolutely "necessary," which means everyone wastes money, assuming that by "waste money" you mean "buys something other than the least-expensive option for survival.