Anonymous
Post 12/18/2023 07:42     Subject: Re:Regrets about reproducing
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP again - my husband says it's normal when I try to bring up getting some professional help.


maybe you should try your father's style of parenting since it produced angels like your brother and yourself who never yelled or broke any rules and are very peaceful/peace loving? Maybe this kind of authoritative, firm style with military precision and concrete rules will get your kids to behave b/c they will have firm boundaries and consequences for their poor choices? Your dad didnt get 'professional' help- he was just firm and didnt pout up with any bs and you said you guys were angels- maybe you didnt like it at the time but you like what it produced eventually and parenting is a long game- what matters is what kind of adult your kids grow up to be.


My husband, says that with our one child who is like his sibling who ran away from home, we have to walk a very careful line between setting limits and being too controlling. Because if you are too strict, they will rebel and turn away.

MY sibling, agrees with you and thinks we should be much more strict, put some real fear in them, and hit them once in a while, because we all turned out pretty well. I disagree. Like I said, I have ptsd, and have required so much of therapy to undo some of the damage and get to a place where I could forgive my parents. I either chose crappy partners, or in the case of my husband, someone who is extremely challenging and with whole likely try to relive the trauma of my childhood.

I’m also an underachiever in many ways. I feel limited because I get overwhelmed and stresses so easily and so terrified of failure. I was gifted in all areas also, but just struggled hard to keep up and chose a creative profession that didn’t use any of my other abilities.

My husband and his siblings on the other hand have gone on to ivies and have all achieved doctorates or professional degrees. In the surface, extremely successful. But you’d never know all of their extreme struggles, including dropping out of college and their disastrous marriages.


I thought PP was being sarcastic about trying your father's style of parenting.

To your husband's point about carefully setting limits, think about the limits you sent. Are they arbitrary? Are consequences natural? Think about why you set specific limits. Explain those to your child. Clean up your dishes so the family (including the child) isn't living in a mess. Explain and have natural consequences. You hurt your brother you can't play with your friend because you can't trust your child to be safe around other kids. They stay on screens after the timer goes off, they can't do screens until you have time to sit with them to be sure the screen is turned off when their time is up. That kind of thing. One idea I haven't tried, but makes sense, is to collaborate with the kids on what chores need to be done and what expectations there are when at home. You can still add in your own expectations and chores as parents.
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2023 07:06     Subject: Re:Regrets about reproducing
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP again - my husband says it's normal when I try to bring up getting some professional help.


maybe you should try your father's style of parenting since it produced angels like your brother and yourself who never yelled or broke any rules and are very peaceful/peace loving? Maybe this kind of authoritative, firm style with military precision and concrete rules will get your kids to behave b/c they will have firm boundaries and consequences for their poor choices? Your dad didnt get 'professional' help- he was just firm and didnt pout up with any bs and you said you guys were angels- maybe you didnt like it at the time but you like what it produced eventually and parenting is a long game- what matters is what kind of adult your kids grow up to be.


My husband, says that with our one child who is like his sibling who ran away from home, we have to walk a very careful line between setting limits and being too controlling. Because if you are too strict, they will rebel and turn away.

MY sibling, agrees with you and thinks we should be much more strict, put some real fear in them, and hit them once in a while, because we all turned out pretty well. I disagree. Like I said, I have ptsd, and have required so much of therapy to undo some of the damage and get to a place where I could forgive my parents. I either chose crappy partners, or in the case of my husband, someone who is extremely challenging and with whole likely try to relive the trauma of my childhood.

I’m also an underachiever in many ways. I feel limited because I get overwhelmed and stresses so easily and so terrified of failure. I was gifted in all areas also, but just struggled hard to keep up and chose a creative profession that didn’t use any of my other abilities.

My husband and his siblings on the other hand have gone on to ivies and have all achieved doctorates or professional degrees. In the surface, extremely successful. But you’d never know all of their extreme struggles, including dropping out of college and their disastrous marriages.
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2023 06:26     Subject: Regrets about reproducing
I get love from Detroit like skilla
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2023 00:16     Subject: Regrets about reproducing
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP, you might be most helped by a therapist who specializes in trauma and family systems.

You have kind of recreated the past dynamics with your DH and kids as your dad.

Your DH raging and you cutting off connection to them to cope are both really scary for kids. The only one you can control is you. Find someone who does EMDR and see if that helps. It may be that medication can help make you less reactive while you do a DBT program, it is very helpful re: complex trauma.

Once you can manage your nervous system you can start helping the kids. They can't be responsible for you being so flooded/triggered that you lock yourself in your room, they are kids. They are not learning tools or healthy ways to manage their feelings because neither your nor DH know those things. Can't teach what you don't know. Start there. EMDR, DBT, meds for you to help modulate reactivity as a bridge as needed, even beta blockers.

I once was you and was very focused on everyone else. I thought if they did not trigger me so much all would be better. No progress was made until I started on the one I have control over, me. Once I started to get some traction re: regulation I started to see more possibilities rather than just being reactive. Sending worked up kids to isolation may help you but they are not learning the tools to manage feelings or relationships, rather than having strong feelings may lead to abandonment. They perceive DH as engaging. Remember the old saying it is better to be abused than neglected? Obv, neither is good but negative attention is better than a parent locked in a room to escape them to a child.


This is helpful. What would you do/ how would you respond to 10 year old lashing out in rage, hitting a sibling, or yelling at a parent?


You need to learn the warning signs so you can intervene before your 10 year old is in a rage. While you learn that, you calmly and immediately remove the sibling who is getting hurt so they are no longer being hurt. You calmly tell the 10 year old to go somewhere and calm down. If they won't go, you and the rest of the family go somewhere else while they calm down. When your child has calmed down, listen to them explain why they were upset. Ask them what they wanted/needed. What other choices could have achieved their goal. Reiterate family expectations. Ask your child what appropriate things they could do the next time they start to feel upset. You might be surprised by their suggestions. You can offer strategies too, but also ask for their ideas. They need to learn how to regulate their emotions. With a father who regularly yells at them they haven't learned those skills at home.
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2023 00:14     Subject: Re:Regrets about reproducing
Anonymous wrote:OP again - my husband says it's normal when I try to bring up getting some professional help.


maybe you should try your father's style of parenting since it produced angels like your brother and yourself who never yelled or broke any rules and are very peaceful/peace loving? Maybe this kind of authoritative, firm style with military precision and concrete rules will get your kids to behave b/c they will have firm boundaries and consequences for their poor choices? Your dad didnt get 'professional' help- he was just firm and didnt pout up with any bs and you said you guys were angels- maybe you didnt like it at the time but you like what it produced eventually and parenting is a long game- what matters is what kind of adult your kids grow up to be.
Anonymous
Post 12/18/2023 00:08     Subject: Re:Regrets about reproducing
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm sorry OP, sounds like a really tough situation. I think genetics and mental illness are important, but I also think some parent/child relationships can be extra difficult because of vastly different temperaments and it doesn't mean anything is wrong with your kids. If you feel stuck and the counseling options are just too much of an uphill battle, perhaps you should consider private school/boarding school for your kids. Get them out of the household where it's not working for them and see if a new environment would help. They need role models and mentors who are not like your DH but can/know how to deal with personalities like theirs. Perhaps surrounding them with people who are better equipped to handle them is easier than trying to change you and your DH.


I honestly feel that if we did that, they would never forgive us. They won’t even let us send them to camp. They hate school and camp and activities. I have eventually forced them to do some things but it’s been painful baby steps.

I think they feel like they have to be on their best behavior and just despise being told what to do and when to do it and being on someone else’s schedule. They are perfect students. Only comments are things like daydreaming, not participating, or with one of our kids, being distracted and disorganized.

Our one child hates all teachers with a passion. And yet gets the highest grades. They begged me to homeschool them but that would have broke me.


I posted earlier that my child has anxiety so I may be projecting. However, a lot of what you wrote here is similar to what I've experienced, including begging me to homeschool them even when teachers report they are quite and happy and easy going in school. The truth is that my child is a quietly anxious kid. They're afraid of getting in trouble at school. They're trying to figure out what is expected of them socially and academically and meet everyone's expectations. They are emotionally EXHAUSTED when they come home, though usually have plenty of energy to run around for free play. They would rather be home where they feel safe, where things are familiar. Getting them to their activities was a struggle for a very long time even though they had fun 90% of the time, even though we would talk after about how it was fun and maybe next week remember that basketball (or whatever) is fun and skip the tantrum. When my child was very young I coached or was the assistant coach many seasons so my kid would participate, and so I could have better eyes on what was going on with my child. I didn't know then they had anxiety. That sort of thing was NOT in my wheel house which made it all the more draining to be stretching so far out of my comfort zone on top of the tantrums on the way to activities every.single.time. The longer we did the activities and the more familiar they were, the less opposition there was. The anxiety diagnosis was a huge game changer. What looked like opposition and defiance to me (refusing to get shoes on to go to a fun activity they would enjoy once we got there), was anxiety, fear, stress.

For a long time I felt my child simply didn't want to be told what to do. It sounds like you feel the same, but think about their school day. They're being told what to do all.day.long. It's a lot! One thing that has helped me a lot is giving my child 5 minute warnings before we transition to another activity. Such a simple thing but a huge game changer. Also, writing down routines they can check off. We have a morning routine, coming home from school routine, bedtime routine.
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2023 23:35     Subject: Regrets about reproducing
Didn’t read all posts but consider the combo you describe could mean husband and kids are on spectrum. I’d push into school and see what’s really going on. I’ve seen many aren’t parents have trouble at home with no word from school until they started asking. Good luck
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2023 23:22     Subject: Regrets about reproducing
You should all sit together and talk (really calmly without severe emotions). Positive reinforcement at home may also help. OP, your role will be really big and challenging in coordinating all that very strategically and efficiently.
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2023 22:32     Subject: Regrets about reproducing
Anonymous wrote:OP, you might be most helped by a therapist who specializes in trauma and family systems.

You have kind of recreated the past dynamics with your DH and kids as your dad.

Your DH raging and you cutting off connection to them to cope are both really scary for kids. The only one you can control is you. Find someone who does EMDR and see if that helps. It may be that medication can help make you less reactive while you do a DBT program, it is very helpful re: complex trauma.

Once you can manage your nervous system you can start helping the kids. They can't be responsible for you being so flooded/triggered that you lock yourself in your room, they are kids. They are not learning tools or healthy ways to manage their feelings because neither your nor DH know those things. Can't teach what you don't know. Start there. EMDR, DBT, meds for you to help modulate reactivity as a bridge as needed, even beta blockers.

I once was you and was very focused on everyone else. I thought if they did not trigger me so much all would be better. No progress was made until I started on the one I have control over, me. Once I started to get some traction re: regulation I started to see more possibilities rather than just being reactive. Sending worked up kids to isolation may help you but they are not learning the tools to manage feelings or relationships, rather than having strong feelings may lead to abandonment. They perceive DH as engaging. Remember the old saying it is better to be abused than neglected? Obv, neither is good but negative attention is better than a parent locked in a room to escape them to a child.


This is helpful. What would you do/ how would you respond to 10 year old lashing out in rage, hitting a sibling, or yelling at a parent?
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2023 22:16     Subject: Regrets about reproducing
Anonymous wrote:Your children are neurodivergent. They need to be evaluated for autism and/or adhd and receive the appropriate treatments.



Agree. And OP you need a divorce immediately. No family court on earth will stop you from getting the children appropriate mental health/medical services.

Start now on the premise that your children are neurodivergent and do some reading and act accordingly.

And call a divorce lawyer on your lunch break.
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2023 22:13     Subject: Re:Regrets about reproducing
From co-regulation article linked above

Similarly, without coregulation, a child may experience dysregulation, such as outbursts or aggression, and develop a maladaptive coping strategy, such as emotion suppression, that results in internalizing issues.

Coregulation is, therefore, essential in helping a child create calming connections in their brain. Your calming energy is translated to your child’s calmness.

First, Self-Regulate
Parents’ self-regulation is an important part of co-regulation. Adults are role models for their children on how to control their emotions. [focus on yourself here, that is all you can control and 1 parent is enough to learn this]

It can be challenging to deal with a screaming, irrational child during acute tantrum episodes, especially if the situation has already triggered big feelings in you.

Calm your nervous system by taking deep breaths, clearing your mind, and using positive self-talk.

Your past experience, thoughts, and beliefs about emotions will affect how well you manage your emotions.

Be mindful of your own state of mind and stay in the presence.

If it becomes too difficult for you to control your emotions when your child is upset, seek professional help. In therapy, mental health professionals can assist you in identifying and addressing unresolved issues that could prevent you from being a calm, caring parent.


Reparenting yourself and helping heal your PTSD from an abusive childhood will first help you, then help your kids. Managing your feelings so you can stay calm, present, and connected will help them co-regulate to calmness. Disconnecting triggers anxiety and more of the behavior you find overwhelming so working on you and your PTSD is the first step.

DBT tools will help everyone.
https://www.mentalhealth.com/therapy/parenting-and-dialectical-behavior-therapy-and-emotions

Anonymous
Post 12/17/2023 21:53     Subject: Regrets about reproducing
Your kid that hates all teachers with a passion but does well gradewise...may be frequently bored...and also might have some other very valid reasons.

We don't live in the DMV right now, but I still think our experience is relevant.

My kid was really negative about his middle school teachers...and a lot of what he said had some truth to it. The pandemic was a mess and teachers have had a hard time steering things back to normal. For equity reasons, ability tracking is declining and kids are being mixed together in ways that don't really help anybody outperform. My kid became happier when entering high school, basically just because many of the classes became harder and the goof-offs were finally filtered out of them.

I've also learned that my kid's perceptions and issues were shared by other students and sometimes could even be verified by grownups. For example, the middle school principal told me that the relatively young 8th grade Spanish teacher had no disciplinary control over her class. That teacher had to take a mental health leave. I also found out that other parents could corroborate that the only advanced 7th grade pre-algebra teacher believes so much in group work that all the students are unclear on key methods. And, then, I learned that the 8th grade teacher who has to clean up the 7th grade teacher's messes is openly critical and derisive about his peer.

I never had as much info about "goings on" at my school as I've gotten from my kids since the pandemic destabilized everything. The high school teachers were also pretty frank last year about not getting along with our new principal.

When I read the MCPS threads I see lots of the same issues that my flyover country district has, only we have nowhere near the tax base to address them. It's clear that public education is in crisis.

So...my point is...maybe your kid has some reasons that are valid. Maybe some of them can be addressed, without a solution as extreme as homeschooling. Or addressed with structured extracurricular enrichment. We are sending our kids to Mathnasium, which doesn't assign any at-home work, to make up for the shoddy 7th grade teacher plus pandemic delays. Other parents are letting their kids grind on Duolingo to move ahead in language classes (we can request kids to be moved up in language class levels if they are ready).
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2023 21:42     Subject: Regrets about reproducing
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Side thought. Are you close enough to DH's siblings that you can discuss what happened in their lives directly - how it felt to be them, how they wished they would be treated, how much sleep they needed as kids? Sounds like DH is the most functional so maybe info from the others would help.

From what you've said above, the suicide risk is the most frightening issue. My recommendation is that you delay phones and don't allow social media. It's quite possible for kids to do without social media.

I actually am pro-multi-player video gaming if the friend community is healthy. My kids play Roblox quest games and have met some intelligent, friendly kids from other parts of the world to socialize with. Gaming got my younger through a rough patch in middle school. So that's not necessarily a problem.

Another suggestion...when they are really angry, do you follow them and try to talk about feelings? Some people (my IL family) are better left alone to cool off. My family likes to continue engaging in discussion while angry. I've had to learn to not chase people around while arguing things out. Better to allow cool off and discuss another time.

Another thing...occasionally humor can defuse a screaming threat situation. Or a poker face. Maybe your kids are continuing to lash out at you because they can read your face and tell that they are making an impact.

You may have luck once the kids have hit developmental milestones....they may respond to the nurture. It seems hopeful to me that they are well-behaved at school. In my limited experience, kids that are disruptive at home are consistent in other environments.

Another thought...since they are smart, why don't you make them a no-screen play area with interesting things to send them to as a time-out. Like a science kit or workbench area. Maybe being sent somewhere in the house is enough of a signal to calm down and cut out whatever behavior.

Last thing that comes to mind...the "one of these things is not like the other" family situation that you are in. I lived in a FOO where mom was the "good girl" and dad and 2 kids were much more on the same wavelength.
I think you are really wise for reaching out for help. Your DH might want to avoid managing this situation because of bad memories. And you are the person least similar to your family members. So it makes a lot of sense for you to be collecting info and trying out techniques to find out what works best. Because you deserve to be happy and respected, but your loved ones may not be able to introspect enough to help you to learn how to manage them more successfully.

Wishing you luck and just want to say you're an attentive and good mom for starting down this path of inquiry.





Wow, thanks for your post. I’m hesitant to have those types of conversations with my husband’s siblings but I’ll give it some thought.

We are pretty strict about screens and video games. And it’s mostly because one of our kids cannot seem to handle it, because of his obsessive, addictive, and intense personality.

My go to is sending the kids to their rooms when they start screaming. But they have started refusing, and are getting too big for me to force or carry them upstairs. I really avoid engaging when they start screaming.


Try taking a time out yourself, I say, 'we can try again when we can talk calmly and I'm feeling upset right now." That works better for my anxious volatile kid who freaks out even more if I walk out without that promise of later connection and admitting I feel upset doesn't make her feel "bad." Then I go in my room, and do something I find soothing, a YT mediation video, yoga, listen to music and dance around, whatever. I have to be regulated so she can co-regulate from me.

I had a lot of PTSD from childhood too, and had to address it. I have also provided things that she finds soothing, a weighted blanket, journal, mini trampoline to jump on, etc. So she calms down, I calm down, then we try again. I also try for some kind of physical connection, holding hands, a hand on arm, touching knees while sitting, it seems to help ground and make more screaming less likely in the 2nd attempt. Sometimes going for a walk or bike ride and talking while moving is really helpful. But, before I could teach emotional intelligence and regulation, I had to learn it myself. And to work on healthy attachment styles. I did not learn that as a child myself so it has been very healing for me. I could not put the burden on them of not dysregulating me, they are kids and the bigger triggers were placed decades earlier.


Thank you for your advice, it’s helpful to hear. On my best days I do all the things you described, and on a day like today, it’s like I’ve forgotten everything I’ve learned. It’s funny I’ve gotten them all those other things like the weighted blanket, mini trampoline, journal. And I do usually tell them that I am really needing a break and then go meditate.


Make a list so when you get overwhelmed or if you dissociate you have the list and even a few scripted things to read/say. Really work on your own regulation and PTSD responses, look into EMDR and DBT, they are the most likely to help you put on your own oxygen mask.

Once I could be less reactive to the kids being emotional or just kids it took a lot of energy out of the dynamic. When they were babies and cried, you/I were able to soothe them. They still need to co-regulate with you. But not when you are setting each other off. They are not your dad but you are reacting in a way that disrupts the attachment. For anxious and dysregulated kids who need you to be calm to help them feel calm, that is the gas on the fire. Change that and I think the home dynamics may settle down.

Neuropsych evals can help tease out attention, anxiety, etc, but the only 1 who can control 1/2 of the energy of the interactions with them is you.

EMDR tends to help a lot re: trauma, quickly, or not do much, so get some recs re: providers and give it a try. DBT is going to change your nervous system and sense of being an actor not a reactor. Once you are solid you can model and teach the regulation tools to the rest of the family. Once you are like a loving, calm container for their feelings and can stay connected when they are dysregulated, it will really help them to not feel so overwhelmed. And you will have done a lot of healing of yourself when you can get to that point instead of cutting off or dissociating. They won't need to keep trying to get even negative attention from you because you won't be pulling away.

https://www.parentingforbrain.com/co-regulation/

The trauma healing and emotional IQ/management skills will help your kids but it is also a big gift to give to yourself and will change your experience of life and relationships. Good luck!

Anonymous
Post 12/17/2023 21:28     Subject: Regrets about reproducing
Anonymous wrote:Nature vs nuture. Don’t count nuture out just yet. I had my daughter very a donor egg but she somehow has all my worst qualities namely she is stubborn and resistant all the time.

Marriage - my dad was abusive (beat me with a belt, yelled and screamed, smacked me in the face) and after dating pop a bunch of losers I married a good man who is kind and decent. History does not always repeat.



Op here. Sounds a lot like my dad. I do think my husband is kind and decent but really hard to live with sometimes. But I’m sure I am too.
Anonymous
Post 12/17/2023 21:23     Subject: Re:Regrets about reproducing
Anonymous wrote:It really helps when you stop thinking that they are screwing at you and reacting. You need to step outside the situation and realize that they are screaming because they can't handle their emotions. The screaming isn't because of you no matter whatever you did or said prior to the screaming. An emotionally healthy person would deal with their emotions without screaming. They are screaming because of them, not because of you.

Once you step out of the situation, you are less likely to shut down. You can try to help them find words for their emotions, for instance by saying things like, "Gosh, you must be so mad. I can hear how mad you are. Let me know when you're ready to talk and we can try to find a solution.". You can also make suggestions or help them calm down if that helps them.

My kids also absolutely know the rule that parents can't ever say yes when they're yelling. It's in the parent handbook--if you say yes to a yelling kid, you teach them to yell and that's not allowed. If they yell at me, I'll tell them they know the rule and the answer is no. But if they calm down they can try again when they are ready.


Thanks for your post. Some good reminders and advice I will keep in mind.