Anonymous
12/11/2023 18:31
Subject: RTO in many cases is the height of hubris.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yup. Its just harder to manage remote peoole. You have to actively set up projects and metrics and deliverables instead of assuming everyone is at the office working. I think letting everyone who can (and wants to) work remote, should. And then have in person team meets once a quarter or once a month to build team cohesion etc.
It's super easy to not meet metrics being in the office, too. Projects, metrics, deliverables aren't a new thing with remote work.
Lots of (poor) managers had been skating by with no metrics and no clear idea of what their people do, because they could see bodies at desks. That was never good management, but widespread WFH really shone a light on it.
Anonymous
12/11/2023 18:25
Subject: RTO in many cases is the height of hubris.
Anonymous wrote:I had some quit this week due to RTO. Quite Frankly she was good and smart but no longer worth the effort.
It was embarrassing near the end her reign to dial in and zoom into in person meetings that were in person. when she did come, late, leaving early, calling out. In the end she tried to get at 15 hour in person work week. 5 hours a day three days and when she attempted that first 15 minutes were breakfast, then a 30 minute lunch and another 15 minute of coffee bathroom breaks. So really a 4 hour day. She kept fighting for 2021 and 100 percent remote.
More power to her I am sure she will find it at another place. But don’t try to bend a company to your will.
She asked for what she wanted, and left when she didn't get it. Seems like a normal business transaction. Good for her.
The attitude that people can't complain and can't ask for what they want is what's embarrassing. Finding a new job has costs that people would prefer to forgo, and finding a replacement hire has costs that employers would prefer to forgo. It can't always work out, but DCUM acts like it's rude to even try.
Anonymous
12/11/2023 17:55
Subject: RTO in many cases is the height of hubris.
Anonymous wrote:The opportunity to work from home is the single most precipitous increase to quality of life in the entire history of white-collar work in the United States--effectively, a major increase in the total compensatory value of what is received in exchange for one's work.
But for the circumstances under which it was dramatically expanded, there would be no question that it was a slam-dunk victory for the people formerly known as "office workers".
Anyone shilling for the view that we should all be happy to give this victory back because a bunch of guys said so is in a relationship to authority that is undignified and unfortunate.
I hated WFH. It was bad for my marriage, my kids and everyone. It was a strain and no separation between work and home. Tons of people hated it. Not me. When office opened up we ran back.
Anonymous
12/11/2023 17:52
Subject: RTO in many cases is the height of hubris.
I had some quit this week due to RTO. Quite Frankly she was good and smart but no longer worth the effort.
It was embarrassing near the end her reign to dial in and zoom into in person meetings that were in person. when she did come, late, leaving early, calling out. In the end she tried to get at 15 hour in person work week. 5 hours a day three days and when she attempted that first 15 minutes were breakfast, then a 30 minute lunch and another 15 minute of coffee bathroom breaks. So really a 4 hour day. She kept fighting for 2021 and 100 percent remote.
More power to her I am sure she will find it at another place. But don’t try to bend a company to your will.
It was embarrassing near the end her reign to dial in and zoom into in person meetings that were in person. when she did come, late, leaving early, calling out. In the end she tried to get at 15 hour in person work week. 5 hours a day three days and when she attempted that first 15 minutes were breakfast, then a 30 minute lunch and another 15 minute of coffee bathroom breaks. So really a 4 hour day. She kept fighting for 2021 and 100 percent remote.
More power to her I am sure she will find it at another place. But don’t try to bend a company to your will.
Anonymous
12/11/2023 17:51
Subject: RTO in many cases is the height of hubris.
Anonymous wrote:The opportunity to work from home is the single most precipitous increase to quality of life in the entire history of white-collar work in the United States--effectively, a major increase in the total compensatory value of what is received in exchange for one's work.
But for the circumstances under which it was dramatically expanded, there would be no question that it was a slam-dunk victory for the people formerly known as "office workers".
Anyone shilling for the view that we should all be happy to give this victory back because a bunch of guys said so is in a relationship to authority that is undignified and unfortunate.
+1 billion
Anonymous
12/11/2023 17:37
Subject: RTO in many cases is the height of hubris.
Anonymous wrote:Yup. Its just harder to manage remote peoole. You have to actively set up projects and metrics and deliverables instead of assuming everyone is at the office working. I think letting everyone who can (and wants to) work remote, should. And then have in person team meets once a quarter or once a month to build team cohesion etc.
It's super easy to not meet metrics being in the office, too. Projects, metrics, deliverables aren't a new thing with remote work.
Anonymous
12/11/2023 17:31
Subject: RTO in many cases is the height of hubris.
The opportunity to work from home is the single most precipitous increase to quality of life in the entire history of white-collar work in the United States--effectively, a major increase in the total compensatory value of what is received in exchange for one's work.
But for the circumstances under which it was dramatically expanded, there would be no question that it was a slam-dunk victory for the people formerly known as "office workers".
Anyone shilling for the view that we should all be happy to give this victory back because a bunch of guys said so is in a relationship to authority that is undignified and unfortunate.
But for the circumstances under which it was dramatically expanded, there would be no question that it was a slam-dunk victory for the people formerly known as "office workers".
Anyone shilling for the view that we should all be happy to give this victory back because a bunch of guys said so is in a relationship to authority that is undignified and unfortunate.
Anonymous
12/11/2023 12:13
Subject: RTO in many cases is the height of hubris.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I am really tired of conversations where I have to agree with management that in office collaboration is best for everyone. Do these people ever think that introverts may perdorm better in a closed office or via zoom. And because I have anxiety and want to avoid conflict, I am just going to agree with RTO 3-4 times a week?
You don't have to be an introvert to be more productive at home. Plenty of social types (like me) are more productive at home and still staying in touch with colleagues and clients. A lot us had WFH jobs or overseas clients before covid and we are used to phoning people to maintain relationships.
The issue is that employers don't actually care about worker performance. They care that (a) the office's real estate is a sunk cost, (b) commercial real estate is part of their own investment portfolio, and (c) actively managing people is harder than counting heads.
Say it again. Louder.
Anonymous
12/11/2023 11:47
Subject: RTO in many cases is the height of hubris.
Anonymous wrote:If everyone says they aren't coming in, then companies will have to adjust or just deal with no workers. It's good to complain and remind management who really holds the power.
Everyone who has threatened to do this is someone I would like to see gone. Please give me the excuse to fire you for not coming in, we would be better off.
I finally had someone put in her retirement last week because she doesn’t want to come back 3 days in January. We have been hoping she would retire for years and finally get to fill her role with someone who has updated skills at a lower salary.
I don’t think you have the bargaining power you think you do, but go ahead and go for it.
Anonymous
12/11/2023 11:38
Subject: RTO in many cases is the height of hubris.
I am getting tired of the angry return to office posters whining. Just find another job that makes you happy and stop inventing excuses for why RTO is terrible.
Anonymous
12/11/2023 10:10
Subject: Re:RTO in many cases is the height of hubris.
You've had nearly four years of the easy life and so it makes sense you would complain. I get it. But grow up and go to work or find another job that is fully remote. Unless you were hired to be fully remote, I'm not sure you should be complaining at all.
Anonymous
12/11/2023 09:51
Subject: RTO in many cases is the height of hubris.
If everyone says they aren't coming in, then companies will have to adjust or just deal with no workers. It's good to complain and remind management who really holds the power.
Anonymous
12/10/2023 22:17
Subject: RTO in many cases is the height of hubris.
Anonymous wrote:I am really tired of conversations where I have to agree with management that in office collaboration is best for everyone. Do these people ever think that introverts may perdorm better in a closed office or via zoom. And because I have anxiety and want to avoid conflict, I am just going to agree with RTO 3-4 times a week?
You don't have to be an introvert to be more productive at home. Plenty of social types (like me) are more productive at home and still staying in touch with colleagues and clients. A lot us had WFH jobs or overseas clients before covid and we are used to phoning people to maintain relationships.
The issue is that employers don't actually care about worker performance. They care that (a) the office's real estate is a sunk cost, (b) commercial real estate is part of their own investment portfolio, and (c) actively managing people is harder than counting heads.
Anonymous
12/10/2023 22:03
Subject: RTO in many cases is the height of hubris.
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:GM CEO just told people get back to work.
Bottom line way back in 2007 my company started remote. Any employee with children was required to show proof of child care or a nanny, my facilities dept. would visit home to set up office and ensure they had an appropriate place to work at home and had to be online business hours and available.
Most women were looking for free child care or run errands or go bus stop.
My co worker did get approval. He had a home office identical to work, one kid in after school program and they rocked it 830 - 530 pm every day.
Most washed out .
There's a major difference between wanting to meet your kid at the bus stop and providing full time childcare.
Right? I unabashedly pick my kid up from the bus stop on WFH days. It takes maybe 10-15 minutes out of my day and she's totally self sufficient while I continue to work. I'm not paying for aftercare because someone has a problem with me or my DH being away from our desk for 10-15 minutes. The point of WFH is not to be in heads down mode from 8:30-5:30 everyday. If that's the expectation, then I will refuse to answer any email outside of those hours and see how that goes.
+1
That is how I feel. I am in a field that can be incredibly focused on time spent working (like you get a warning if you show up at 9:03 instead of 9 am). What managers don’t seem to realize is that no one will work a minute past working hours if you are that micromanaging. So they ask for people to stay later or join meetings in the evenings and people say no.
Anonymous
12/10/2023 18:36
Subject: Re:RTO in many cases is the height of hubris.
Im sorry... where does the hundreds of dollars come in?