Anonymous wrote:I get that we all paid a lot of money, and invested lots of time, for our kids to get what historically would have been good scores. No one wants to feel like they pissed away their money and their child's time. But unless your kid's score exceeds the school's average, you did piss it away. You can certainly still submit the score because it was fully bought and paid for. But it's not going to help, and could hurt, in this new world of college admissions.

I'm guessing your counselor is giving the and advice that good college counselors are giving everywhere. If the score is higher than a college's average score, then submit. But if not, then keep it to yourself.

Advice to submit only if above average (50th percentile) is outdated/last yr. New advice, this season, is to submit at or above the 25th percentile.

Anonymous wrote:System is getting more and more fukced up

I like the idea of plumbers with a 1500 SAT.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I get that we all paid a lot of money, and invested lots of time, for our kids to get what historically would have been good scores. No one wants to feel like they pissed away their money and their child's time. But unless your kid's score exceeds the school's average, you did piss it away. You can certainly still submit the score because it was fully bought and paid for. But it's not going to help, and could hurt, in this new world of college admissions.

I'm guessing your counselor is giving the and advice that good college counselors are giving everywhere. If the score is higher than a college's average score, then submit. But if not, then keep it to yourself.

That was the last piece of the puzzle. You are transparent AF now.

I don't understand the anger and weird personalization. And for the record, my two kids are a college senior who applied pre-covid and submitted scores (as required at that time) everywhere. And my other child is two years away from applying. I'm mostly just fascinated with watching the slow death of testing that got crazily perverted over time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Where would you not submit at 1520 or a 1540. Some counselors are telling kids with these scores to go test optional to very highly selective schools.. the whole process, in terms of TO, has become a game. Wish college had to be either test required or test blind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, consensus seems to be to submit the score. I think it is a great score. Math is 770 and verbal is 730.

Do you know the meaning of consensus? There's five pages of differing views. But you should do what you want, ignore the consultant you're paying, and submit a score that's in the bottom fourth of enrolled students from last year.

It’s not in the bottom fourth of enrolled students if 32% didn’t submit any scores. Likely that means it is in the top 1/2 of enrolled students.

The 32% that didn’t submit were probably scoring well below 1500.

A 1500 is a drag on the average. Hard to see how that's a plus.

NP. I think counselors saying not to submit a 1500 are giving bad advice. Maybe the student won't get in, but a 1500 isn't going to be the reason. 1500 shows they are prepared for Duke. Go back to the pre-test-optional data from Common Data Set 2020-21, which was 1480-1560.

This! The caliber of applicants did not rocket even higher (this is DUKE for crying out loud). What changed was test optional and the pandemic. The kids are still the same.

I think at least on PP is a parent that convinced their high scoring student to not submit their scores and now they are defending the decision.

Or someone whose kid got a 1250 and is applying TO to schools like Duke and trying to convince the competition to withhold good scores.

Anonymous wrote:I get that we all paid a lot of money, and invested lots of time, for our kids to get what historically would have been good scores. No one wants to feel like they pissed away their money and their child's time. But unless your kid's score exceeds the school's average, you did piss it away. You can certainly still submit the score because it was fully bought and paid for. But it's not going to help, and could hurt, in this new world of college admissions.

I'm guessing your counselor is giving the and advice that good college counselors are giving everywhere. If the score is higher than a college's average score, then submit. But if not, then keep it to yourself.

I agree.

This is pretty much the advice I just got last week (I'm a parent of a hs junior) from a college counselor at my kid's top DC private.

Anonymous wrote:I get that we all paid a lot of money, and invested lots of time, for our kids to get what historically would have been good scores. No one wants to feel like they pissed away their money and their child's time. But unless your kid's score exceeds the school's average, you did piss it away. You can certainly still submit the score because it was fully bought and paid for. But it's not going to help, and could hurt, in this new world of college admissions.

I'm guessing your counselor is giving the and advice that good college counselors are giving everywhere. If the score is higher than a college's average score, then submit. But if not, then keep it to yourself.

That was the last piece of the puzzle. You are transparent AF now.

I get that we all paid a lot of money, and invested lots of time, for our kids to get what historically would have been good scores. No one wants to feel like they pissed away their money and their child's time. But unless your kid's score exceeds the school's average, you did piss it away. You can certainly still submit the score because it was fully bought and paid for. But it's not going to help, and could hurt, in this new world of college admissions.

I'm guessing your counselor is giving the and advice that good college counselors are giving everywhere. If the score is higher than a college's average score, then submit. But if not, then keep it to yourself.

Maybe PP is one of those private counselors trying to avoid getting sued for giving advice they can't completely defend?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Where would you not submit at 1520 or a 1540. Some counselors are telling kids with these scores to go test optional to very highly selective schools.. the whole process, in terms of TO, has become a game. Wish college had to be either test required or test blind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, consensus seems to be to submit the score. I think it is a great score. Math is 770 and verbal is 730.

Do you know the meaning of consensus? There's five pages of differing views. But you should do what you want, ignore the consultant you're paying, and submit a score that's in the bottom fourth of enrolled students from last year.

It’s not in the bottom fourth of enrolled students if 32% didn’t submit any scores. Likely that means it is in the top 1/2 of enrolled students.

The 32% that didn’t submit were probably scoring well below 1500.

A 1500 is a drag on the average. Hard to see how that's a plus.

NP. I think counselors saying not to submit a 1500 are giving bad advice. Maybe the student won't get in, but a 1500 isn't going to be the reason. 1500 shows they are prepared for Duke. Go back to the pre-test-optional data from Common Data Set 2020-21, which was 1480-1560.

This! The caliber of applicants did not rocket even higher (this is DUKE for crying out loud). What changed was test optional and the pandemic. The kids are still the same.

I think at least on PP is a parent that convinced their high scoring student to not submit their scores and now they are defending the decision.

Certainly sounds like a parent trying to defend it. Literally no one else cares this much.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Where would you not submit at 1520 or a 1540. Some counselors are telling kids with these scores to go test optional to very highly selective schools.. the whole process, in terms of TO, has become a game. Wish college had to be either test required or test blind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, consensus seems to be to submit the score. I think it is a great score. Math is 770 and verbal is 730.

Do you know the meaning of consensus? There's five pages of differing views. But you should do what you want, ignore the consultant you're paying, and submit a score that's in the bottom fourth of enrolled students from last year.

It’s not in the bottom fourth of enrolled students if 32% didn’t submit any scores. Likely that means it is in the top 1/2 of enrolled students.

The 32% that didn’t submit were probably scoring well below 1500.

A 1500 is a drag on the average. Hard to see how that's a plus.

NP. I think counselors saying not to submit a 1500 are giving bad advice. Maybe the student won't get in, but a 1500 isn't going to be the reason. 1500 shows they are prepared for Duke. Go back to the pre-test-optional data from Common Data Set 2020-21, which was 1480-1560.

OMG. Check your calendar. It's 2023, not 2020. The entire dynamics of admissions have changed. Wake up!

No one is getting rejected from Duke due to a 1500. That's just dumb. Yes, test optional admissions threw a wrench into the system. No kid with a 1500 is academically unqualified for Duke.

Duke has not released a Common Data Set for 2022-23 so there is no composite score data available for enrolled students for that year. The only composite data released is in the Class Profile fall 2023, which shows data for admitted students, not enrolled.

Data for enrolled students:
Fall 2022, EBRW 730-770, Math 760-800
Fall 2020, EBRW 720-770, Math 750-800

Test optional pushed up the 25th percentile by 10 points per section, as one might expect. While Duke hasn't released the enrolled composite for fall 2022, it was likely around 1490-1500. There is zero reason to withhold a 1500.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And the fact that scores are so susceptible to prep makes it more clear you should submit; if the school assumes you prepped and still couldn't get a decent score, that's not a good look.

I don't get you logic. You think it's a better idea to submit a significantly below average score to Duke because you'd worry that, if you don't submit a score, Duke will assume that the student got a significantly below average score. Doesn't make much sense.
And I assume Duke would prefer to not have to put this mediocre score into its average.

Yes. And with no hesitation. The schools average is based on self selecting applicants. All of whom are reaching for a top school. Many of whom have been snookered into not submitting great scores.

Nationally (and internationally) a 1500 is a fantastic score. With 1.5m in the proband you know your percentile really means something. No one gets to opt out of being counted nationally.

1500 is a very good score nationally. But it's NOT a good score for Duke. It's a score that is significantly below Duke's average of scores submitted by enrolled students. Back in the old days, that would have been OK, as everyone had to submit a score and 1500 isn't a horribly bad score. But today, Duke doesn't have to take kids with lower than average scores. This kid might still be admitted DESPITE the 1500, but there's no good argument that the score will help her.

We're in the last years of the SAT, that's for certain. And you'll help your child most by being logical in how you play this game. And for here, Duke doesn't want that 1500 in its mix, if it can avoid it.

+1.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Where would you not submit at 1520 or a 1540. Some counselors are telling kids with these scores to go test optional to very highly selective schools.. the whole process, in terms of TO, has become a game. Wish college had to be either test required or test blind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, consensus seems to be to submit the score. I think it is a great score. Math is 770 and verbal is 730.

Do you know the meaning of consensus? There's five pages of differing views. But you should do what you want, ignore the consultant you're paying, and submit a score that's in the bottom fourth of enrolled students from last year.

It’s not in the bottom fourth of enrolled students if 32% didn’t submit any scores. Likely that means it is in the top 1/2 of enrolled students.

The 32% that didn’t submit were probably scoring well below 1500.

A 1500 is a drag on the average. Hard to see how that's a plus.

NP. I think counselors saying not to submit a 1500 are giving bad advice. Maybe the student won't get in, but a 1500 isn't going to be the reason. 1500 shows they are prepared for Duke. Go back to the pre-test-optional data from Common Data Set 2020-21, which was 1480-1560.

OMG. Check your calendar. It's 2023, not 2020. The entire dynamics of admissions have changed. Wake up!

DC's school has, according to Naviance, had a number of students accepted to Duke with 1500 or below. although most kids with 1500 were rejected. It matters most what besides scores you bring to the table that Duke might want.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
Where would you not submit at 1520 or a 1540. Some counselors are telling kids with these scores to go test optional to very highly selective schools.. the whole process, in terms of TO, has become a game. Wish college had to be either test required or test blind.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Okay, consensus seems to be to submit the score. I think it is a great score. Math is 770 and verbal is 730.

Do you know the meaning of consensus? There's five pages of differing views. But you should do what you want, ignore the consultant you're paying, and submit a score that's in the bottom fourth of enrolled students from last year.

It’s not in the bottom fourth of enrolled students if 32% didn’t submit any scores. Likely that means it is in the top 1/2 of enrolled students.

The 32% that didn’t submit were probably scoring well below 1500.

A 1500 is a drag on the average. Hard to see how that's a plus.

NP. I think counselors saying not to submit a 1500 are giving bad advice. Maybe the student won't get in, but a 1500 isn't going to be the reason. 1500 shows they are prepared for Duke. Go back to the pre-test-optional data from Common Data Set 2020-21, which was 1480-1560.

This! The caliber of applicants did not rocket even higher (this is DUKE for crying out loud). What changed was test optional and the pandemic. The kids are still the same.

I think at least on PP is a parent that convinced their high scoring student to not submit their scores and now they are defending the decision.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

And the fact that scores are so susceptible to prep makes it more clear you should submit; if the school assumes you prepped and still couldn't get a decent score, that's not a good look.

I don't get you logic. You think it's a better idea to submit a significantly below average score to Duke because you'd worry that, if you don't submit a score, Duke will assume that the student got a significantly below average score. Doesn't make much sense.
And I assume Duke would prefer to not have to put this mediocre score into its average.

Yes. And with no hesitation. The schools average is based on self selecting applicants. All of whom are reaching for a top school. Many of whom have been snookered into not submitting great scores.

Nationally (and internationally) a 1500 is a fantastic score. With 1.5m in the proband you know your percentile really means something. No one gets to opt out of being counted nationally.

1500 is a very good score nationally. But it's NOT a good score for Duke. It's a score that is significantly below Duke's average of scores submitted by enrolled students. Back in the old days, that would have been OK, as everyone had to submit a score and 1500 isn't a horribly bad score. But today, Duke doesn't have to take kids with lower than average scores. This kid might still be admitted DESPITE the 1500, but there's no good argument that the score will help her.

We're in the last years of the SAT, that's for certain. And you'll help your child most by being logical in how you play this game. And for here, Duke doesn't want that 1500 in its mix, if it can avoid it.