Anonymous
Post 11/07/2023 17:18     Subject: Law school vs. grad school
Anonymous wrote:Here's a view:

https://philosophyfacotry.blogspot.com/2005/12/phd-vs-jd.html

And a contrary one:

Okay... I am graduating with a JD in the spring and I have a Master's degree. Law School is 1000 times more difficult than graduate school. The workload is higher, the material much more difficult, and the teachers use the "socratic method" - which would put tears in the eyes of most graduate students. Okay - so the papers may be simmilar in length - but you must have never heard of the idea of QUALITY over QUANTITY. In a masters program, you can fill a paper with facts, quotes, and all sorts of other BS; however, Law School papers require concise analysis of the topic at hand. When you write motions or appellate briefs for the first time, you HATE the fact that there is a page limit because there is SOOOO much to squeeze into such a short space.

Take it from me (as I have done both), masters degrees are nothing compared to Law School.


I also have a JD and a master's degree. I totally disagree that "Law School is 1000 times more difficult than grad school." My grad degree, done after my JD, was much harder than law school. The "Socratic method" is really not a big deal; the fact that you think it is makes me wonder if you are really in law school or if you are applying to law schools and have watched that movie The Paper Chase one too many times.

Assuming you actually are about to graduate, I'm disappointed that law school hasn't beaten the inclination to write things like "1000 times more difficult" out of you. And that "you must have never heard of the idea of QUALITY over QUANTITY" statement is embarrassing as well, and not just because of the all-caps. Finally, let's hold off on your purported expertise on what it is to write motions and appellate briefs until you have actually done so for a living, lol.
Anonymous
Post 11/07/2023 16:58     Subject: Law school vs. grad school
Pretty much any Ph.D. could get through law school, but the reverse isn't true.
Anonymous
Post 11/07/2023 01:28     Subject: Law school vs. grad school
Mediocre law school vs rigorous grad school or complex major refute your tgeory.
Anonymous
Post 11/06/2023 23:15     Subject: Law school vs. grad school
Here's a view:

https://philosophyfacotry.blogspot.com/2005/12/phd-vs-jd.html

And a contrary one:

Okay... I am graduating with a JD in the spring and I have a Master's degree. Law School is 1000 times more difficult than graduate school. The workload is higher, the material much more difficult, and the teachers use the "socratic method" - which would put tears in the eyes of most graduate students. Okay - so the papers may be simmilar in length - but you must have never heard of the idea of QUALITY over QUANTITY. In a masters program, you can fill a paper with facts, quotes, and all sorts of other BS; however, Law School papers require concise analysis of the topic at hand. When you write motions or appellate briefs for the first time, you HATE the fact that there is a page limit because there is SOOOO much to squeeze into such a short space.

Take it from me (as I have done both), masters degrees are nothing compared to Law School.
Anonymous
Post 11/06/2023 22:54     Subject: Law school vs. grad school
OP - I'll step back to the "generic" PhD vs Law school comparison. Going to Law school, like undergrad, like business school, like high school (and like the masters portion of a PhD program or a stand alone masters program) - where you go to class and are expected to learn something and then show you learned it by taking tests or applying a technique. Getting a Phd - you learn the basics but the entire goal is to produce NEW material that is a contribution to the literature (or whatever) in your field. It's not regurgitation of some other stuff people have told you - it's taking what is already out there and finding some thing new.

Hopefully this explains how it is different. If you want to practice law, go to law school. If you want to go into business consider business school. If you want to be a research scientist...go to grad school in a lab science.... But if you were to go to grad school in the lab science, you'd probably find the universities with the top researchers in the specific sub field you want to eventually work in. It's not some generic lab science PHD....who your dissertation advisor is and their lab work will guide what you specialize in. You need to know what you are interested in achieving when you go to grad school.
Anonymous
Post 11/06/2023 22:41     Subject: Law school vs. grad school
Anonymous wrote:If your question is how do the experiences compare intellectually, they are very different. JD here with a masters also. (So I can’t speak to the dissertation aspect of your question.) Law school requires close reading of cases which aren’t generally long. The long ones are excerpted. You don’t write many papers. You are focused on figuring out an analytical framework that you can apply to different facts. So you are using your readings to figure out an analytical scaffolding and then learning how to apply it. My masters program emphasized different skills. The reading was longer. You are building over time a body of knowledge, an area of expertise and you are focused on building knowledge of scholarship that you can use to develop your own scholarship. The comps you take at the end of your masters course work are designed to determine if you have mastered the scholarship “canon” in your field. If you are a regular JD student in law school no one cares about your scholarship and ideas.


I get that you are trying to share your experience...but "going to grad school" is HIGHLY variable depending on what you are going to grad school for. My PhD program resembled nothing like yours....which doesn't surprise me, since I know from being at a school with many different high level PhD programs...that they differed...A LOT! OP never even stated what subject of grad school they were considering. This is a crazy red flag....not ready for either law school or "generic" grad school if you are asking this question.
Anonymous
Post 11/06/2023 22:36     Subject: Law school vs. grad school
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Law school is much more of a grind than grad school. You seem very confused OP.


By "grind" - is the challenge more volume or conceptual difficulty?


And I guess stress level because of the grading.

But virtually nobody drops out of law school, while doctoral programs have high attrition rates.


They have high attrition rates because the students don't pass their comprehensive exams.....it's a grind. Whey do people feel the need to comment on things they know nothing about?


Or they never finish writing up the dissertation. The latter part of a PhD program is very unstructured, so you have to be highly disciplined and self motivated to keep at it.


Yes - that too. Some of the smartest people in our program dropped out this way. Took real jobs. A couple (who were not american) ended up finishing eventually at a university in their home countries...years later. Another, I'm not sure if they finished or not but are very successful and also still crazy smart.
Anonymous
Post 11/06/2023 22:34     Subject: Law school vs. grad school
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The big difference in kind of course is the dissertation. And grades don't really matter in grad school, while in law school they do.

But I'm curious if anyone can speak to the experience of both law and grad school in say, political science or history.

What's the difference in reading load like in the courses? And is law school as conceptually difficult as grad school? Law is interesting in that it is a first degree in the subject, not advanced study, but the learning curve is obviously higher than in undergrad.

Is it fair to say the knowledge base of the law degree and bar exam is similar to the PhD student up to the level of qualifying exams and without the dissertation?


I'm the PP at 22:27 - what I recommend is that if you (or your child, I assume) don't know the difference in these paths - to go get a real job for a few years. This is always a good idea anyway. Get some life experience, earn money, pay rent, pay off a car payment or some other school loan maybe. The people who were in my grad program that came straight from undergrad were the most likely to stop after coursework, not pass comps, walk away with a masters (luckily our program offered masters for those who passed classes but failed comps), and get jobs. They ended up in great business careers - but they were just not cut out for what a PhD program requires because they had just taken it as a next rung on the ladder....akin to should I go to law school or get a PhD... Take some time to mature and have a sense of purpose....not just sign up for the next level of education.

And note - as others have said. Law school will be expensive so seems silly to pay for that if you don't really know it's what you want to do. Grad school will be free if you are in the right field (great programs fully fund tuition for top applicants and pay for jobs too....but you need to live poor - I got out with just one final $5k loan to get me through to the last push of my dissertation without working on anything else). But I gave up 6 years of real job income....
Anonymous
Post 11/06/2023 22:33     Subject: Law school vs. grad school
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Law school is much more of a grind than grad school. You seem very confused OP.


By "grind" - is the challenge more volume or conceptual difficulty?


And I guess stress level because of the grading.

But virtually nobody drops out of law school, while doctoral programs have high attrition rates.


They have high attrition rates because the students don't pass their comprehensive exams.....it's a grind. Whey do people feel the need to comment on things they know nothing about?


Or they never finish writing up the dissertation. The latter part of a PhD program is very unstructured, so you have to be highly disciplined and self motivated to keep at it.
Anonymous
Post 11/06/2023 22:33     Subject: Law school vs. grad school
Anonymous wrote:The big difference in kind of course is the dissertation. And grades don't really matter in grad school, while in law school they do.

But I'm curious if anyone can speak to the experience of both law and grad school in say, political science or history.

What's the difference in reading load like in the courses? And is law school as conceptually difficult as grad school? Law is interesting in that it is a first degree in the subject, not advanced study, but the learning curve is obviously higher than in undergrad.

Is it fair to say the knowledge base of the law degree and bar exam is similar to the PhD student up to the level of qualifying exams and without the dissertation?


I'm the last PP - what I recommend is that if you (or your child, I assume) don't know the difference in these paths - to go get a real job for a few years. This is always a good idea anyway. Get some life experience, earn money, pay rent, pay off a car payment or some other school loan maybe. The people who were in my grad program that came straight from undergrad were the most likely to stop after coursework, not pass comps, walk away with a masters (luckily our program offered masters for those who passed classes but failed comps), and get jobs. They ended up in great business careers - but they were just not cut out for what a PhD program requires because they had just taken it as a next rung on the ladder....akin to should I go to law school or get a PhD... Take some time to mature and have a sense of purpose....not just sign up for the next level of education.

And note - as others have said. Law school will be expensive so seems silly to pay for that if you don't really know it's what you want to do. Grad school will be free if you are in the right field (great programs fully fund tuition for top applicants and pay for jobs too....but you need to live poor - I got out with just one final $5k loan to get me through to the last push of my dissertation without working on anything else). But I gave up 6 years of real job income....
Anonymous
Post 11/06/2023 22:31     Subject: Law school vs. grad school
You don’t decide based upon the relatively short training experience. They lead to entirely different careers, salaries, lifestyles.

Focus on what future you want, not the grad school experience!
Anonymous
Post 11/06/2023 22:27     Subject: Law school vs. grad school
Anonymous wrote:The big difference in kind of course is the dissertation. And grades don't really matter in grad school, while in law school they do.

But I'm curious if anyone can speak to the experience of both law and grad school in say, political science or history.

What's the difference in reading load like in the courses? And is law school as conceptually difficult as grad school? Law is interesting in that it is a first degree in the subject, not advanced study, but the learning curve is obviously higher than in undergrad.

Is it fair to say the knowledge base of the law degree and bar exam is similar to the PhD student up to the level of qualifying exams and without the dissertation?


This is such a weird question because you choose to go to law school or to get a PhD based on what you want to do as a career. They are not the same path, at all. Do you want to be an attorney? Go to law school. Do you want to be an economist (or whatever)? Go to PhD program.
Anonymous
Post 11/06/2023 22:24     Subject: Law school vs. grad school
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Law school is much more of a grind than grad school. You seem very confused OP.


By "grind" - is the challenge more volume or conceptual difficulty?


And I guess stress level because of the grading.

But virtually nobody drops out of law school, while doctoral programs have high attrition rates.


They have high attrition rates because the students don't pass their comprehensive exams.....it's a grind. Whey do people feel the need to comment on things they know nothing about?
Anonymous
Post 11/06/2023 22:23     Subject: Law school vs. grad school
Anonymous wrote:Law school is much more of a grind than grad school. You seem very confused OP.


Give me a break....there are plenty of very very hard PhD grad programs that are a grind.
Anonymous
Post 11/06/2023 22:21     Subject: Law school vs. grad school
I think it's pretty obvious which is the higher intellectual/academic achievement. But always good to hear from those who have some experience in both law school and grad school.