Anonymous wrote:Mathcounts, AAP, Science Olympiad, TJ. It's almost all Asian. I think white people need to come to grips with the fact that their kids are not in the advanced groups within FCPS. Maybe that's why they want to tear them down. They are not represented.

I also wonder about the demographics of places like Curie. Seems like these things are easily gameable but whites are more focused on things like travel sports.

Mathcounts, AAP, Science Olympiad, TJ. It's almost all Asian. I think white people need to come to grips with the fact that their kids are not in the advanced groups within FCPS. Maybe that's why they want to tear them down. They are not represented.

Asians are the majority of the high academic groups in FCPS. Why do we keep talking about whites?

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Anonymous wrote:AAP is not a gifted program. It is mainly a way for parents with means to get their kids segregated from the poor kids, disguised as a gifted program. (Let’s not pretend these parents aren’t prepping their kids for the two tests which are meant to be taken totally unprepped, or that they’re not “contributing” to their children’s work samples, and when all else fails they’ll pay for and prep their kid for an IQ test…)

The problem is then everyone pretends that all of the kids left behind are getting an adequate and appropriate education. Wrong! The average, above average, and poor gifted kids are being left to flounder jn gen ed which is essentially remedial at this point. But the rich “gifted” kids are at centers so I guess all is well.

All the kids are taking the same standardized tests. They all have equal access to the same programs. If you are able to demonstrate a high level of knowledge in subjects, it makes perfect sense to be able to receive a higher level of acceleration and material taught. Just the same if a child tests low, remedial measures are put in place.

So you prepped your kids for the tests. That is essentially cheating - it is not indicative of your child’s giftedness. Which, again, is a HUGE part of the problem.

(Also, does no one else think it’s insane to basically permanently track kids at ages 6-7? Johnny didn’t score as well on a test he didn’t prepare for in second grade [because you’re not supposed to prepare for it] as Timmy whose Mommy was giving him practice tests for three months, so Johnny is essentially screwed for the the rest of his time in FCPS?)

Parents are the most important teachers to their children. If a child scores high on a standardized math test or reading test and it is because their parent works have been working with the daily, great! They know the material. They should be entitled to harder more challenging material in class to further their education. Teachers and schools should meet and provide kids whatever level instruction they need- regardless of what parents do or don’t do at home. That is irrelevant. It isn’t “cheating” to teach and support and parent your child.

In the context of this discussion, prepping doesn’t mean teaching your kids stuff outside of school hours. It means doing things like teaching them sample cogat questions. And you very well know that, so stop deflecting. You’re embarrassing yourself.

Again, AAP is NOT a gifted program. It is a program for the kids of PP and those of her ilk, masquerading as a gifted program. PP’s prepped kid doesn’t “need” special advanced instruction any more than the average kid in FCPS, because PP’s kid is NOT GIFTED.

I think there's another angle to this that gets missed a lot. One of the big complaints to any form of specialized opportunities for "advanced" kids (honors/advanced classes, AAP, G&T, anything) is that you end up a cohort of kids in the advanced track who are richer and whiter and so it's seen as a form of segregation. I think this is a reasonable concern. Segregation in housing and in educational opportunities is a huge problem in the US, and has been an ongoing problem since before Civil Rights. This is something we need to try to address.

But simplistic ideas like getting rid of AAP are missing the bigger picture. Yes, you can segregate kids within a school, and that's not good. But what's worse than that is to segregate kids into different schools. And what's worse than that is to segregate kids into completely different communities.

If a diverse school in a diverse community offers an advanced option that is somewhat segregated, and then they simply remove that advanced option to avoid segregation in the name of equity, some of the parents whose kids were or would be in the advanced option may choose a different school if they have that option. They may move into a neighborhood where the gen ed educational path has more rigor, if they can afford it. Those schools and neighborhoods are likely to be richer and whiter, exacerbating the problem.

Removing an AAP program that's 75% white from a school that's 75% students of color, but then causing most of those white kids (over time) to decamp to adjacent mostly white school districts, INCREASES segregation. No, you won't have the visual anymore of gen ed classes filled with students of color and the AAP classes filled with white kids. But those kids will be even more segregated, going to completely different schools and living in completely different neighborhoods.

So to me, the better option is to dig deeper into causes of inequality and try to address them. If there's a test for admission, don't allow families with resources to retake or try another option or talk their kids into the program. But maybe, allow at risk kids whose scores are slightly below the cutoff to join the advanced track. Provide high-quality early education programs. Make sure that special needs are addressed for all kids. These kinds of changes are much more expensive and complex than "end AAP because of segregation" but they're a better path to equity in the long run.

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Anonymous wrote:Unless you restrict AAP, or anything else, only to poor people, then rich people will have more of it because that's what "rich" means.

If you want to hurt rich people, just raise taxes. Don't dumb down all of society.

They’re trying to help the rich.

Dumb down society and the rich will flourish without competition. They will still get their services elsewhere and society will fall behind.

It’s a win win for the rich and the private school establishment.

Do you seriously believe this or are you just posting nonsense?

Whether it achieves the goal or not (and many in this the think it does not), they are trying to help the poor and underrepresented.

The school board and administration are not trying to help the rich and private schools by purposefully harming the non-rich. Not even Machiavelli was that Machiavellian.

Do you think removing homework, reducing/removing reading novels, removing discipline/punishment, and providing minimum 50% as well as skills based grading is helping or hurting a Child's education? Note: I did not say grades. I said education.

As I said, I think they are misguided and paving a road with their good intentions. But I don't think they are evil, as you seem to.

That's why I asked if you seriously believed that the school board and/or administration is purposefully harming students for some nefarious plot. And yes, you seem to.

Oh sorry. Im DP. Yeah I don't think they are doing it on purpose for those ends. I think PP was stirring the pot a little. I do think they are doing it on purpose while knowing that it won't help in order to appear as though they are helping.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you restrict AAP, or anything else, only to poor people, then rich people will have more of it because that's what "rich" means.

If you want to hurt rich people, just raise taxes. Don't dumb down all of society.

They’re trying to help the rich.

Dumb down society and the rich will flourish without competition. They will still get their services elsewhere and society will fall behind.

It’s a win win for the rich and the private school establishment.

Do you seriously believe this or are you just posting nonsense?

Whether it achieves the goal or not (and many in this the think it does not), they are trying to help the poor and underrepresented.

The school board and administration are not trying to help the rich and private schools by purposefully harming the non-rich. Not even Machiavelli was that Machiavellian.

Do you think removing homework, reducing/removing reading novels, removing discipline/punishment, and providing minimum 50% as well as skills based grading is helping or hurting a Child's education? Note: I did not say grades. I said education.

As I said, I think they are misguided and paving a road with their good intentions. But I don't think they are evil, as you seem to.

That's why I asked if you seriously believed that the school board and/or administration is purposefully harming students for some nefarious plot. And yes, you seem to.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you restrict AAP, or anything else, only to poor people, then rich people will have more of it because that's what "rich" means.

If you want to hurt rich people, just raise taxes. Don't dumb down all of society.

They’re trying to help the rich.

Dumb down society and the rich will flourish without competition. They will still get their services elsewhere and society will fall behind.

It’s a win win for the rich and the private school establishment.

Do you seriously believe this or are you just posting nonsense?

Whether it achieves the goal or not (and many in this the think it does not), they are trying to help the poor and underrepresented.

The school board and administration are not trying to help the rich and private schools by purposefully harming the non-rich. Not even Machiavelli was that Machiavellian.

Do you think removing homework, reducing/removing reading novels, removing discipline/punishment, and providing minimum 50% as well as skills based grading is helping or hurting a Child's education? Note: I did not say grades. I said education.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Unless you restrict AAP, or anything else, only to poor people, then rich people will have more of it because that's what "rich" means.

If you want to hurt rich people, just raise taxes. Don't dumb down all of society.

They’re trying to help the rich.

Dumb down society and the rich will flourish without competition. They will still get their services elsewhere and society will fall behind.

It’s a win win for the rich and the private school establishment.

Do you seriously believe this or are you just posting nonsense?

Whether it achieves the goal or not (and many in this the think it does not), they are trying to help the poor and underrepresented.

The school board and administration are not trying to help the rich and private schools by purposefully harming the non-rich. Not even Machiavelli was that Machiavellian.

Anonymous wrote:AAP is needed and it is not coming in the way of gen ed getting focused and quality education. There is not a single gen ed teacher who has ever said - I cant teach my class because of AAP program curriculum and students there. And there is not a single gen ed student who has complained - I cant understand this concept or do my homework because of kids in AAP. Problem here is the gen ed parents becoming too fixated on AAP students and their parents.

This forum is full of fixated people.

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Anonymous wrote:I found this article so moving:

https://tcf.org/content/commentary/gifted-talented-programs-not-path-equity/

And the arguments made are so compelling.

Don’t you agree this also applies to the AAP program? Should we find ways to phase it out, and offer the same opportunities to every learner in FCPS ?

Yes, especially since the current incarnation of AAP is just segregation for those with means.

Try again. Without AAP, our school would be very white and homogenous.

My white kid was in an AAP class at his local elementary, and he was a minority. There were just a few white kids in the class.

My child in a FCPS school managed to earn a spot on a very competitive academic team; he is the only white child on the team.

The PP who alleged AAP is some sort of bastion of whiteness is completely wrong. And her suggestion is kinda racist.

And what race were the other? Why is no one answering this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Slippery slope fallacy galore in this thread yep, giving some additional support to Black and Brown kids is going to end up in a dystopian future.

Giving some additional support is great, but the thread title says AAP should be eliminated. That's not giving extra support to kids who need it, it's taking away rigor from kids who are ready for it. In practice when the word equity is used the end result is bringing down the ceiling rather than raising the floor.

I'm 100% sure the poster of this thread is doing it in bad faith to stir trouble. They actually support AAP and are against equity but want to postulate absurd suggestions to make equity supporters look bad.

Anonymous wrote:Unless you restrict AAP, or anything else, only to poor people, then rich people will have more of it because that's what "rich" means.

If you want to hurt rich people, just raise taxes. Don't dumb down all of society.

They’re trying to help the rich.

Dumb down society and the rich will flourish without competition. They will still get their services elsewhere and society will fall behind.

It’s a win win for the rich and the private school establishment.

Anonymous wrote:AAP is not a gifted program. It is mainly a way for parents with means to get their kids segregated from the poor kids, disguised as a gifted program. (Let’s not pretend these parents aren’t prepping their kids for the two tests which are meant to be taken totally unprepped, or that they’re not “contributing” to their children’s work samples, and when all else fails they’ll pay for and prep their kid for an IQ test…)

The problem is then everyone pretends that all of the kids left behind are getting an adequate and appropriate education. Wrong! The average, above average, and poor gifted kids are being left to flounder jn gen ed which is essentially remedial at this point. But the rich “gifted” kids are at centers so I guess all is well.

So true!

Anonymous wrote:There are parents who read to their kids before going to bed. There are also kids who read to their parents before going to bed. And, there are parents and their kids who don't read at all at home.

On the path to equity, what should be done?

1) Restrict parents from reading to kids at home

2) Restrict kids from reading too many books at home

3) Restrict reading to school hours only so that every kid reads same amount

LOL. Restrict math talk in kitchen as well. If you give mommy one of your three crackers, how many do you have left; should be banned talk. No telling time, no counting change, keep measuring cup out of reach. Everyone enters school equally dumb, and school introduces numbers. Equity!

Never put a fork, spoon, fork, spoon in a row, and ask what comes next. Kid might pickup on patterns concept, and that's prepping for CogAT.
If kids enters school with any home learning, kid must be from a rich family.