Anonymous wrote:The economy is getting tighter. Go back to work in the office.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Since COVID, I have worked from home and it's been wonderful. I'm super productive - and also cozy at home. I am a huge introvert and I savor not having to "face" the world. And, a lot of my work is independent anyway. I wear my soft pants, I light a candle next to my desk, I can dash out to pick up my kids, I have soup simmering ... and I get a TON DONE.

We go back in person next week and I feel legit sick to my stomach. I wake up at 4am sweaty and panicked. The commute sucks. The rows of cubicles blow. The entire vibe is just...not home. I hate it and it's making me feel ill. Like the work but hate office culture. I don't know what to do.

The bolded, plus laundry, a quick trip to grocery store, etc, are exactly why so many companies are requiring RTO.

Yup. The “I get a ton done” is always referencing personal stuff during work hours. These people getting so worked up about going back to the office are so transparent. Find a new job, negotiate, or go back. The whining and fake panic attacks are ridiculous.

As someone who WFH I don’t disagree that employers are doing other things but I also think the standard 40 hour workweek needs to be adjusted and replaced with get your s*** done. We’ve come a long ways with efficiency and technology since the 40 hour work week began. There’s no reason I should be standing around twiddling my thumb in an office waiting for someone to send me something, answer a question, etc. Unless you’re working an actual hourly job, being on the clock hourly is dumb.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

Employers absolutely are taking something from us with RTO.
They did not want to lose any valuable labor time during covid so they fed everyone lines that if you got sick you could take "covid leave" blah blah but they found ways to get everyone connected and working from home pretty seamlessly.

Then when employees showed that they could do it, excel, be more productive and in some cases work even more hours (even when recovering from illnesses! or quarantining) they are not happy with that proof and want their way again.

Put yourself in the shoes of your evil employer for just a moment, they have decided to bring their staff back to the office more days. Why? Do they think people are excelling and working more hours from home and they are trying to reduce productivity? Unlikely. Are they trying to torture you and cause panic attacks? Also unlikely. I think that most employers are sick of trying to reach their staff while they’re busy making soup or out picking up their kids and they need to bring them to an office to verify they do their jobs, plus the in person camaraderie is good for the team. Why else do you think so many are doing this?

I am C level at an 8000 person company and I have no idea why employers do this. Our staff are just as productive wfh as they are in person. I literally cannot tell whether they are at home or not. I CAN tell if they are not working, bc we have many ways to measure productivity beyond just seeing people with our eyes like it is 1850.
I think if the problem is people slacking off or not being able to measure productivity, then those are the wrong employees and/ or you need better tools.

Curious what measures a large company like that employs to confirm whether employees are working/productive. Are you confident they are accurate?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

+1 so true
Instead of being grateful for the time working at home, people are feeling punished returning to the status quo pre-covid. Nothing lasts forever.

not so.
we used to need to use payphones on the street to call ppl when we were out. We don't now bc we have cells. We used to need to cross atlantic by ship but now we have planes. Should we start using payphones again and sailing to france bc we are just 'going back to normal'? progress happens and gives us the gift of time and convenience. Trying to turn the clock back just causes resentment and people like op will find better jobs that understand that and the ones who are stuck in the past will lose good employees and only be able to hire the desperate and second rate (or extroverts!)

That's silly. Why should kids then return to school? Why not have all of them continue to do virtual learning?

because we are adults and we CAN work remotely - because we are adults?

there are many adults who take advantage of wfh, and work second jobs, or are hard to reach. So, no, not all adults can work remotely.

And third jobs, drinking, gambling, smoking, napping, watching Netflix, watching phub, making dinner, going to gym, golfing etc

I agree wfh can be more productive. But in reality the time saved for most does not go into more work.

My block in Ward 3 is a case in point. The professionals who survive by “eating only what they kill” — software sales and law firm lawyers and one consultant— WFH as hard as they ever did. OTOH the federal manager works maaaybe 25 hrs a week. If that. She gets her GS13 salary regardless of how many times a day she jogs, picks up the kids, walks the dog, walks to the market, sits on the porch talking to mom, prepping dinner at 4 pm, jogging again ….

Same for the salaried newspaper reporters, nonorofit lawyer and association lawyer. and the software guy. Constantly outside, playing with dogs, playing with kids, playing with their $5000 bike. At soccer, at swimming. There’s no way in hell they are working full time for their full time salaries. And no, they’re not logging on late st night because I walk my own dog at 10 and their homes are completely dark

Some employers are getting the shaft, even the elite ones who presumably hire the elite professionals

Anonymous wrote:The economy is getting tighter. Go back to work in the office.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

+1 so true
Instead of being grateful for the time working at home, people are feeling punished returning to the status quo pre-covid. Nothing lasts forever.

not so.
we used to need to use payphones on the street to call ppl when we were out. We don't now bc we have cells. We used to need to cross atlantic by ship but now we have planes. Should we start using payphones again and sailing to france bc we are just 'going back to normal'? progress happens and gives us the gift of time and convenience. Trying to turn the clock back just causes resentment and people like op will find better jobs that understand that and the ones who are stuck in the past will lose good employees and only be able to hire the desperate and second rate (or extroverts!)

That's silly. Why should kids then return to school? Why not have all of them continue to do virtual learning?

because we are adults and we CAN work remotely - because we are adults?

there are many adults who take advantage of wfh, and work second jobs, or are hard to reach. So, no, not all adults can work remotely.

And third jobs, drinking, gambling, smoking, napping, watching Netflix, watching phub, making dinner, going to gym, golfing etc

I agree wfh can be more productive. But in reality the time saved for most does not go into more work.

My block in Ward 3 is a case in point. The professionals who survive by “eating only what they kill” — software sales and law firm lawyers and one consultant— WFH as hard as they ever did. OTOH the federal manager works maaaybe 25 hrs a week. If that. She gets her GS13 salary regardless of how many times a day she jogs, picks up the kids, walks the dog, walks to the market, sits on the porch talking to mom, prepping dinner at 4 pm, jogging again ….

Same for the salaried newspaper reporters, nonorofit lawyer and association lawyer. and the software guy. Constantly outside, playing with dogs, playing with kids, playing with their $5000 bike. At soccer, at swimming. There’s no way in hell they are working full time for their full time salaries. And no, they’re not logging on late st night because I walk my own dog at 10 and their homes are completely dark

Some employers are getting the shaft, even the elite ones who presumably hire the elite professionals

Wow, you're quite "busy" aren't you, watching your neighbors at all hours, taking down their hours, looking into their windows, noting their possessions and what they cost. Clearly you are not employed. Maybe you should be because you have so much time on your hands and if you were gainfully employed you wouldn't be stalking your neighbors. Yikes.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

Employers absolutely are taking something from us with RTO.
They did not want to lose any valuable labor time during covid so they fed everyone lines that if you got sick you could take "covid leave" blah blah but they found ways to get everyone connected and working from home pretty seamlessly.

Then when employees showed that they could do it, excel, be more productive and in some cases work even more hours (even when recovering from illnesses! or quarantining) they are not happy with that proof and want their way again.

Put yourself in the shoes of your evil employer for just a moment, they have decided to bring their staff back to the office more days. Why? Do they think people are excelling and working more hours from home and they are trying to reduce productivity? Unlikely. Are they trying to torture you and cause panic attacks? Also unlikely. I think that most employers are sick of trying to reach their staff while they’re busy making soup or out picking up their kids and they need to bring them to an office to verify they do their jobs, plus the in person camaraderie is good for the team. Why else do you think so many are doing this?

NP and although I would never admit this to our employees but one of the reasons we are doing this is to make it harder for people to quit (i.e. they use up more PTO for dr. appointments, etc. and they also have to take off a significant portion of the day if they interview elsewhere so it makes it harder for them to switch jobs). I don't really get a vote but if it were up to me I would try to make our place a better place to work so people want to stay but as another poster noted it's all about the bottom line.

We’re doing it to cull the herd without having to do layoffs. The true producers have been coming into the office since we reopened in fall 2021. If people quit rather than RTO, we can meet our headcount goals, open some positions for those who are coming in to move into, and rehire for their position if necessary.

Most of the people who don’t want to RTO are middle management types who are making $150-$200k plus benefits. Consolidating some of these positions has real budgetary impact.

We've sadly lost some of our best staff because of RTO. They didn't want to come back so they left. And it's been hard to replace them with employees who were as good as they were.

Are you sure RTO was the real problem? Or just a really convenient bridge-sustaining excuse to give for why they are leaving.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People moaning should have had the foresight to count their blessings while they could. Back in March 2020, no one promised you this would be forever. In fact, they generally explicitly said it *wouldn’t* be forever, and the fact that you got 3+ years of WFH is beyond the wildest expectations that anyone would have had back then. You had your fun, now either find a fully remote job or suck it up like the rest of us have been doing for a long time.

This. I have family who are first responders who literally never got time off. I am a teacher who has been back since March 2021 (and I do work summers). It's time to suck it up or change jobs.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

Employers absolutely are taking something from us with RTO.
They did not want to lose any valuable labor time during covid so they fed everyone lines that if you got sick you could take "covid leave" blah blah but they found ways to get everyone connected and working from home pretty seamlessly.

Then when employees showed that they could do it, excel, be more productive and in some cases work even more hours (even when recovering from illnesses! or quarantining) they are not happy with that proof and want their way again.

Put yourself in the shoes of your evil employer for just a moment, they have decided to bring their staff back to the office more days. Why? Do they think people are excelling and working more hours from home and they are trying to reduce productivity? Unlikely. Are they trying to torture you and cause panic attacks? Also unlikely. I think that most employers are sick of trying to reach their staff while they’re busy making soup or out picking up their kids and they need to bring them to an office to verify they do their jobs, plus the in person camaraderie is good for the team. Why else do you think so many are doing this?

NP and although I would never admit this to our employees but one of the reasons we are doing this is to make it harder for people to quit (i.e. they use up more PTO for dr. appointments, etc. and they also have to take off a significant portion of the day if they interview elsewhere so it makes it harder for them to switch jobs). I don't really get a vote but if it were up to me I would try to make our place a better place to work so people want to stay but as another poster noted it's all about the bottom line.

We’re doing it to cull the herd without having to do layoffs. The true producers have been coming into the office since we reopened in fall 2021. If people quit rather than RTO, we can meet our headcount goals, open some positions for those who are coming in to move into, and rehire for their position if necessary.

Most of the people who don’t want to RTO are middle management types who are making $150-$200k plus benefits. Consolidating some of these positions has real budgetary impact.

We've sadly lost some of our best staff because of RTO. They didn't want to come back so they left. And it's been hard to replace them with employees who were as good as they were.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

Employers absolutely are taking something from us with RTO.
They did not want to lose any valuable labor time during covid so they fed everyone lines that if you got sick you could take "covid leave" blah blah but they found ways to get everyone connected and working from home pretty seamlessly.

Then when employees showed that they could do it, excel, be more productive and in some cases work even more hours (even when recovering from illnesses! or quarantining) they are not happy with that proof and want their way again.

Put yourself in the shoes of your evil employer for just a moment, they have decided to bring their staff back to the office more days. Why? Do they think people are excelling and working more hours from home and they are trying to reduce productivity? Unlikely. Are they trying to torture you and cause panic attacks? Also unlikely. I think that most employers are sick of trying to reach their staff while they’re busy making soup or out picking up their kids and they need to bring them to an office to verify they do their jobs, plus the in person camaraderie is good for the team. Why else do you think so many are doing this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

+1 so true
Instead of being grateful for the time working at home, people are feeling punished returning to the status quo pre-covid. Nothing lasts forever.

not so.
we used to need to use payphones on the street to call ppl when we were out. We don't now bc we have cells. We used to need to cross atlantic by ship but now we have planes. Should we start using payphones again and sailing to france bc we are just 'going back to normal'? progress happens and gives us the gift of time and convenience. Trying to turn the clock back just causes resentment and people like op will find better jobs that understand that and the ones who are stuck in the past will lose good employees and only be able to hire the desperate and second rate (or extroverts!)

That's silly. Why should kids then return to school? Why not have all of them continue to do virtual learning?

because we are adults and we CAN work remotely - because we are adults?

there are many adults who take advantage of wfh, and work second jobs, or are hard to reach. So, no, not all adults can work remotely.

And third jobs, drinking, gambling, smoking, napping, watching Netflix, watching phub, making dinner, going to gym, golfing etc

I agree wfh can be more productive. But in reality the time saved for most does not go into more work.

My block in Ward 3 is a case in point. The professionals who survive by “eating only what they kill” — software sales and law firm lawyers and one consultant— WFH as hard as they ever did. OTOH the federal manager works maaaybe 25 hrs a week. If that. She gets her GS13 salary regardless of how many times a day she jogs, picks up the kids, walks the dog, walks to the market, sits on the porch talking to mom, prepping dinner at 4 pm, jogging again ….

Same for the salaried newspaper reporters, nonorofit lawyer and association lawyer. and the software guy. Constantly outside, playing with dogs, playing with kids, playing with their $5000 bike. At soccer, at swimming. There’s no way in hell they are working full time for their full time salaries. And no, they’re not logging on late st night because I walk my own dog at 10 and their homes are completely dark

Some employers are getting the shaft, even the elite ones who presumably hire the elite professionals

And what do you do that enables you to monitor all this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

Employers absolutely are taking something from us with RTO.
They did not want to lose any valuable labor time during covid so they fed everyone lines that if you got sick you could take "covid leave" blah blah but they found ways to get everyone connected and working from home pretty seamlessly.

Then when employees showed that they could do it, excel, be more productive and in some cases work even more hours (even when recovering from illnesses! or quarantining) they are not happy with that proof and want their way again.

Put yourself in the shoes of your evil employer for just a moment, they have decided to bring their staff back to the office more days. Why? Do they think people are excelling and working more hours from home and they are trying to reduce productivity? Unlikely. Are they trying to torture you and cause panic attacks? Also unlikely. I think that most employers are sick of trying to reach their staff while they’re busy making soup or out picking up their kids and they need to bring them to an office to verify they do their jobs, plus the in person camaraderie is good for the team. Why else do you think so many are doing this?

NP and although I would never admit this to our employees but one of the reasons we are doing this is to make it harder for people to quit (i.e. they use up more PTO for dr. appointments, etc. and they also have to take off a significant portion of the day if they interview elsewhere so it makes it harder for them to switch jobs). I don't really get a vote but if it were up to me I would try to make our place a better place to work so people want to stay but as another poster noted it's all about the bottom line.

We’re doing it to cull the herd without having to do layoffs. The true producers have been coming into the office since we reopened in fall 2021. If people quit rather than RTO, we can meet our headcount goals, open some positions for those who are coming in to move into, and rehire for their position if necessary.

Most of the people who don’t want to RTO are middle management types who are making $150-$200k plus benefits. Consolidating some of these positions has real budgetary impact.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm confused. Presumably you went into the office before covid hit and you didn't get sick to your stomach and have panic attacks.

I don't understand why you feel that way now. I mean, sure it sucks to have to RTO, but not understanding why you are getting legit panic attacks over it.

Exactly. You'll adjust.

I think you are feeling this way because you think that the employer is taking away something from you. But in reality, they adjusted for the pandemic and are adjusting things back to normal now.

+1 so true
Instead of being grateful for the time working at home, people are feeling punished returning to the status quo pre-covid. Nothing lasts forever.

not so.
we used to need to use payphones on the street to call ppl when we were out. We don't now bc we have cells. We used to need to cross atlantic by ship but now we have planes. Should we start using payphones again and sailing to france bc we are just 'going back to normal'? progress happens and gives us the gift of time and convenience. Trying to turn the clock back just causes resentment and people like op will find better jobs that understand that and the ones who are stuck in the past will lose good employees and only be able to hire the desperate and second rate (or extroverts!)

That's silly. Why should kids then return to school? Why not have all of them continue to do virtual learning?

because we are adults and we CAN work remotely - because we are adults?

there are many adults who take advantage of wfh, and work second jobs, or are hard to reach. So, no, not all adults can work remotely.

And third jobs, drinking, gambling, smoking, napping, watching Netflix, watching phub, making dinner, going to gym, golfing etc

I agree wfh can be more productive. But in reality the time saved for most does not go into more work.

My block in Ward 3 is a case in point. The professionals who survive by “eating only what they kill” — software sales and law firm lawyers and one consultant— WFH as hard as they ever did. OTOH the federal manager works maaaybe 25 hrs a week. If that. She gets her GS13 salary regardless of how many times a day she jogs, picks up the kids, walks the dog, walks to the market, sits on the porch talking to mom, prepping dinner at 4 pm, jogging again ….

Same for the salaried newspaper reporters, nonorofit lawyer and association lawyer. and the software guy. Constantly outside, playing with dogs, playing with kids, playing with their $5000 bike. At soccer, at swimming. There’s no way in hell they are working full time for their full time salaries. And no, they’re not logging on late st night because I walk my own dog at 10 and their homes are completely dark

Some employers are getting the shaft, even the elite ones who presumably hire the elite professionals

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People moaning should have had the foresight to count their blessings while they could. Back in March 2020, no one promised you this would be forever. In fact, they generally explicitly said it *wouldn’t* be forever, and the fact that you got 3+ years of WFH is beyond the wildest expectations that anyone would have had back then. You had your fun, now either find a fully remote job or suck it up like the rest of us have been doing for a long time.

This. I have family who are first responders who literally never got time off. I am a teacher who has been back since March 2021 (and I do work summers). It's time to suck it up or change jobs.