Anonymous
10/09/2023 11:08
Subject: Wouldn't want my kids to go into medicine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:PP physician here who said I made less than 2 of my friends who are govt lawyers. I make in the low 200s, but it fluctuates (didn’t get bonus during Covid).
Both of my lawyer friends work for the SEC - we don’t discuss exact numbers, but it seems to me that they make around 250 - certainly not 180. I do know that both of these lawyers make more than their spouses (who are doctors - that’s how we know each other).The lawyers also WFH and only about 40 hours a week. And they talk about a pension, too.
It was so awful during Covid when we were working crazy hours, scrambling for childcare, and terrified of bringing it home to our families. All of the non-doctors appeared to view Covid like a fun vacation, and many of them still work from home!
It is true that doctors in the DMV are relatively poorly paid - if we moved to Alabama or Idaho we’d be doing much better financially. But then my spouse wouldn’t be employable.
And what’s up with the snide comment about pediatrician salaries? I’m not peds so I have no personal stake in this argument, but do you really think that it’s fair that peds is so poorly paid? Is children’s health that unimportant?
Most govt attorneys top out at 180k. SEC is an exception--you can't base govt lawyer salaries on SEC salaries. It is a different scale.
Okay. But they have every evening, weekend, and holiday off, they start making something close to this right out of law school, and they rarely, if ever, have to watch people die and keep working.
I life my job, but I have to agree with OP. This isn’t a job that I want for my kids if they don’t want it for themselves.
Anonymous
10/09/2023 09:48
Subject: Wouldn't want my kids to go into medicine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You go into medicine if you are truly interested in service. If you simply want to make an easy buck there’s plenty of other options.
What job has that lifestyle, income, and stability?
My brother and several of my cousins work in the Bay Area tech scene. They are all on track to retire by 45-50 if they choose.
Anonymous
10/09/2023 09:47
Subject: Wouldn't want my kids to go into medicine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You go into medicine if you are truly interested in service. If you simply want to make an easy buck there’s plenty of other options.
What job has that lifestyle, income, and stability?
I’m a doctor and my husband is a govt lawyer making 160k. Honestly his lifestyle is way better than my lifestyle. He also have stability and his hours are better with no stress.
Anonymous
10/09/2023 09:40
Subject: Wouldn't want my kids to go into medicine
Anonymous wrote:You go into medicine if you are truly interested in service. If you simply want to make an easy buck there’s plenty of other options.
What job has that lifestyle, income, and stability?
Anonymous
10/09/2023 08:44
Subject: Wouldn't want my kids to go into medicine
You go into medicine if you are truly interested in service. If you simply want to make an easy buck there’s plenty of other options.
Anonymous
10/09/2023 08:28
Subject: Wouldn't want my kids to go into medicine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:(new poster)
I'd like to be clear to a prior PP that I am absolutely certain my family was of a lower social class than theirs was. Unless you also feel through a tired floor in your bedroom and had an outhouse instead of indoor plumbing, that is.
I'm one of those pediatricians who stupidly tries to avoid in-clinic procedures on kids if I can, despite the fact that I could be billing much higher.
And how did you pay for med school?
The military is an option, but the physical cutoff is actually quite challenging.
Scholarship and a combined degree program where I could teach in my graduate field for a tuition waiver.
Why do you ask?
So you got an MD/PhD, sure that’s one way to pay for it. But for most students that a huge long shot.
Why are you saying things that you know nothing about?
It’s not a huge long shot. It’s a huge time commitment and a ton of work and it usually doesn’t make any financial sense if you run the numbers. 4 years of medical school tuition is less than 4-5 years of attending physician salary that you are losing while getting your PhD.
Only really dedicated people go this route.
I have a PhD, and I came from a pot background, so I went to school with a lot of MD/PhD. And yes those people are like me: doing a job because of a calling and giving up monetary gains because they would make more money in other routes. And yes it doesn’t make as much monetary sense, but as a poor student you don’t run the risk of ending up with six figure debt and unable to pay (if for some reason you have divert from medical career). But they are fiercely competitive, best of the best rather than run of mill doctor.
This thread is about run of the mill doctors and how current doctors think it’s a terrible career, and many of us who work in other fields pointing out how privileged they are and are unaware how “regular” corporate jobs work now.
Anonymous
10/08/2023 23:34
Subject: Wouldn't want my kids to go into medicine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:(new poster)
I'd like to be clear to a prior PP that I am absolutely certain my family was of a lower social class than theirs was. Unless you also feel through a tired floor in your bedroom and had an outhouse instead of indoor plumbing, that is.
I'm one of those pediatricians who stupidly tries to avoid in-clinic procedures on kids if I can, despite the fact that I could be billing much higher.
And how did you pay for med school?
The military is an option, but the physical cutoff is actually quite challenging.
Scholarship and a combined degree program where I could teach in my graduate field for a tuition waiver.
Why do you ask?
So you got an MD/PhD, sure that’s one way to pay for it. But for most students that a huge long shot.
Why are you saying things that you know nothing about?
It’s not a huge long shot. It’s a huge time commitment and a ton of work and it usually doesn’t make any financial sense if you run the numbers. 4 years of medical school tuition is less than 4-5 years of attending physician salary that you are losing while getting your PhD.
Only really dedicated people go this route.
+1
I worked in a teaching hospital with a lot of physician-scientists and I have tremendous respect for them. We had residents in our lab every year who did 1 or 2 year research fellowships. Every year they spend in their research training is a year of lost MD-level income.
And physicians who work at the NIH make cutting edge discoveries but trade in private-sector salaries.
Anonymous
10/08/2023 23:32
Subject: Wouldn't want my kids to go into medicine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:(new poster)
I'd like to be clear to a prior PP that I am absolutely certain my family was of a lower social class than theirs was. Unless you also feel through a tired floor in your bedroom and had an outhouse instead of indoor plumbing, that is.
I'm one of those pediatricians who stupidly tries to avoid in-clinic procedures on kids if I can, despite the fact that I could be billing much higher.
And how did you pay for med school?
The military is an option, but the physical cutoff is actually quite challenging.
Scholarship and a combined degree program where I could teach in my graduate field for a tuition waiver.
Why do you ask?
So you got an MD/PhD, sure that’s one way to pay for it. But for most students that a huge long shot.
I never suggested it wasn't. I am, however, not entirely appreciative of having my experience ( and that of many of my colleagues) invalidated.
We are not the most common, but we certainly exist. About 5% of matriculating medical students, or roughly 1150 a year, are from the poorest 20% of our society.
Anonymous
10/08/2023 23:28
Subject: Wouldn't want my kids to go into medicine
OP, taking care of sick and dying is a privilege, and we are lucky to get paid to do what we do.
Everyone I know who retired from medicine or quit to SAH with kids still volunteers at a homeless shelter or free clinic or medical school. You would too, and so would your husband. I get feeling burnt out, but you need to have some gratitude here too.
Everyone I know who retired from medicine or quit to SAH with kids still volunteers at a homeless shelter or free clinic or medical school. You would too, and so would your husband. I get feeling burnt out, but you need to have some gratitude here too.
Anonymous
10/08/2023 23:17
Subject: Wouldn't want my kids to go into medicine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:(new poster)
I'd like to be clear to a prior PP that I am absolutely certain my family was of a lower social class than theirs was. Unless you also feel through a tired floor in your bedroom and had an outhouse instead of indoor plumbing, that is.
I'm one of those pediatricians who stupidly tries to avoid in-clinic procedures on kids if I can, despite the fact that I could be billing much higher.
And how did you pay for med school?
The military is an option, but the physical cutoff is actually quite challenging.
Scholarship and a combined degree program where I could teach in my graduate field for a tuition waiver.
Why do you ask?
So you got an MD/PhD, sure that’s one way to pay for it. But for most students that a huge long shot.
Why are you saying things that you know nothing about?
It’s not a huge long shot. It’s a huge time commitment and a ton of work and it usually doesn’t make any financial sense if you run the numbers. 4 years of medical school tuition is less than 4-5 years of attending physician salary that you are losing while getting your PhD.
Only really dedicated people go this route.
Anonymous
10/08/2023 23:14
Subject: Wouldn't want my kids to go into medicine
Anonymous wrote:PP physician here who said I made less than 2 of my friends who are govt lawyers. I make in the low 200s, but it fluctuates (didn’t get bonus during Covid).
Both of my lawyer friends work for the SEC - we don’t discuss exact numbers, but it seems to me that they make around 250 - certainly not 180. I do know that both of these lawyers make more than their spouses (who are doctors - that’s how we know each other).The lawyers also WFH and only about 40 hours a week. And they talk about a pension, too.
It was so awful during Covid when we were working crazy hours, scrambling for childcare, and terrified of bringing it home to our families. All of the non-doctors appeared to view Covid like a fun vacation, and many of them still work from home!
It is true that doctors in the DMV are relatively poorly paid - if we moved to Alabama or Idaho we’d be doing much better financially. But then my spouse wouldn’t be employable.
And what’s up with the snide comment about pediatrician salaries? I’m not peds so I have no personal stake in this argument, but do you really think that it’s fair that peds is so poorly paid? Is children’s health that unimportant?
A lawyer at the SEC or any other financial agency is making way more than the vast majority of government lawyers. And lawyers in private practice are often working under much worse conditions than physicians.
Anonymous
10/08/2023 23:01
Subject: Wouldn't want my kids to go into medicine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:PP physician here who said I made less than 2 of my friends who are govt lawyers. I make in the low 200s, but it fluctuates (didn’t get bonus during Covid).
Both of my lawyer friends work for the SEC - we don’t discuss exact numbers, but it seems to me that they make around 250 - certainly not 180. I do know that both of these lawyers make more than their spouses (who are doctors - that’s how we know each other).The lawyers also WFH and only about 40 hours a week. And they talk about a pension, too.
It was so awful during Covid when we were working crazy hours, scrambling for childcare, and terrified of bringing it home to our families. All of the non-doctors appeared to view Covid like a fun vacation, and many of them still work from home!
It is true that doctors in the DMV are relatively poorly paid - if we moved to Alabama or Idaho we’d be doing much better financially. But then my spouse wouldn’t be employable.
And what’s up with the snide comment about pediatrician salaries? I’m not peds so I have no personal stake in this argument, but do you really think that it’s fair that peds is so poorly paid? Is children’s health that unimportant?
You don't need to discuss numbers because you can up their salaries. That said, most govt lawyers don't make $250K nor do most lawyers at the SEC contrary to what you read on DCUM. In fact most lawyers make less than that so you're comparing yourself to the higher paid portion of lawyers rather than average lawyers.
I work for one of the federal financial regulators. And yes, most of the attorneys I know AND managers in various areas make $250,000. It’s all publicly available.
Uh huh. The Fed is the only agency with non-senior management attorneys making over $250K. And since they hire about 5 lawyers a year, you're more likely to get a dermatology residency or a reproductive endocrinology fellowship than end up at the Fed. There's no point in highlighting unicorn jobs as a likely outcome.
+1
Anonymous
10/08/2023 23:00
Subject: Wouldn't want my kids to go into medicine
Anonymous wrote:PP physician here who said I made less than 2 of my friends who are govt lawyers. I make in the low 200s, but it fluctuates (didn’t get bonus during Covid).
Both of my lawyer friends work for the SEC - we don’t discuss exact numbers, but it seems to me that they make around 250 - certainly not 180. I do know that both of these lawyers make more than their spouses (who are doctors - that’s how we know each other).The lawyers also WFH and only about 40 hours a week. And they talk about a pension, too.
It was so awful during Covid when we were working crazy hours, scrambling for childcare, and terrified of bringing it home to our families. All of the non-doctors appeared to view Covid like a fun vacation, and many of them still work from home!
It is true that doctors in the DMV are relatively poorly paid - if we moved to Alabama or Idaho we’d be doing much better financially. But then my spouse wouldn’t be employable.
And what’s up with the snide comment about pediatrician salaries? I’m not peds so I have no personal stake in this argument, but do you really think that it’s fair that peds is so poorly paid? Is children’s health that unimportant?
Most govt attorneys top out at 180k. SEC is an exception--you can't base govt lawyer salaries on SEC salaries. It is a different scale.
Anonymous
10/08/2023 22:46
Subject: Wouldn't want my kids to go into medicine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:(new poster)
I'd like to be clear to a prior PP that I am absolutely certain my family was of a lower social class than theirs was. Unless you also feel through a tired floor in your bedroom and had an outhouse instead of indoor plumbing, that is.
I'm one of those pediatricians who stupidly tries to avoid in-clinic procedures on kids if I can, despite the fact that I could be billing much higher.
And how did you pay for med school?
The military is an option, but the physical cutoff is actually quite challenging.
Scholarship and a combined degree program where I could teach in my graduate field for a tuition waiver.
Why do you ask?
So you got an MD/PhD, sure that’s one way to pay for it. But for most students that a huge long shot.
Anonymous
10/08/2023 22:30
Subject: Wouldn't want my kids to go into medicine
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:(new poster)
I'd like to be clear to a prior PP that I am absolutely certain my family was of a lower social class than theirs was. Unless you also feel through a tired floor in your bedroom and had an outhouse instead of indoor plumbing, that is.
I'm one of those pediatricians who stupidly tries to avoid in-clinic procedures on kids if I can, despite the fact that I could be billing much higher.
And how did you pay for med school?
The military is an option, but the physical cutoff is actually quite challenging.
Scholarship and a combined degree program where I could teach in my graduate field for a tuition waiver.
Why do you ask?