DCUM Forum

Anonymous

09/26/2023 21:40 Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college

Anonymous wrote:Another professor here.

Disagree strongly with your email etiquette gripe. Not all kids have the benefit of being born into a family or attending a high school that conveys these skills. As educators, yes, even college educators with precious research agendas, it's our job to convey knowledge but also soft skills. Or at least point students in the right direction and have tolerance and empathy as they learn. It sounds like you teach Freshmen, so you especially should temper the expectation that all students arrive on campus "polished."

Honestly, it's annoying when students are rude and lacking any motivation. But unless every single student you teach is privileged, which how could you know that?, have some empathy and patience and don't assume the worst and be a positive force. Take 5 minutes to talk about these things to get everyone up to speed. THEN you can complain. But asking parents to teach this stuff so you don't have to is ignorant to the fact that not all parents can.

Rant over!

Go buy a shovel so you can set the bar even lower.

Anonymous

09/26/2023 21:36 Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college

My daughter had her first job at the age of 14 and needed to interact with her supervisors via email. At that time, we figured out that she doesn’t know how to write emails properly, and I trained her. For a couple of years, she asked me to look at the drafts of her emails for supervisors and teachers, and I provided comments. When she started college, she called me one day and thanked for teaching her how to write emails because she realized how many college students (her friends) don’t know how to do so, and she was teaching them.

Anonymous

09/26/2023 21:18 Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college

Anonymous wrote:

I agree that parenting SN kids is so much harder. I mean, parenting is hard enough, but throw in SN, and the needs and stress can be tripled.

But, how will your SN kids handle the work place? I think the professor OP and other parents are just saying to start teaching your kids early.

At some point, the manager or professor won't care about your adult kid's SN, and that's why they need to work on these skills even earlier.

BINGO!

And the comment was not directed to parents who are doing the work with their kids and they are taking longer than non SN peers to "get it," but to the throngs of parents who take the easy /faster way out and just do things for their child or make excuses for them. It was a time suck letting my 4 year old tie her shoes before we left the house. I could have done it for her so much faster and been on our way. But she needed to learn, so we built extra time into our schedule so she could slowly figure it out for herself. Start having your children do aspects of their own laundry when they are in elementary school and be fully in charge of it by HS knowing they will have to be responsible in college. Have them write thank you notes to Aunt Edna for their gift and learn to properly format a letter/email and learn manners. It's SO refreshing (and uncommon) when a student uses manners in my classroom. Your SN kid may have trouble making eye contact, but you can teach them to say please or thank you and not call me "Yo, Bro."

This. It’s why my kids (including the adhd one) write thank you notes. And are directed to speak with teachers and coaches themselves if they have issues. They really need to practice this stuff.

Anonymous

09/26/2023 21:17 Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college

OP here. I only teach juniors and seniors- advanced courses. So yes they should know better. I’ve never taught freshman.

A small University

Anonymous

09/26/2023 21:14 Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college

OP it's time to retire.

Anonymous

09/26/2023 21:05 Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another professor here.

Disagree strongly with your email etiquette gripe. Not all kids have the benefit of being born into a family or attending a high school that conveys these skills. As educators, yes, even college educators with precious research agendas, it's our job to convey knowledge but also soft skills. Or at least point students in the right direction and have tolerance and empathy as they learn. It sounds like you teach Freshmen, so you especially should temper the expectation that all students arrive on campus "polished."

Honestly, it's annoying when students are rude and lacking any motivation. But unless every single student you teach is privileged, which how could you know that?, have some empathy and patience and don't assume the worst and be a positive force. Take 5 minutes to talk about these things to get everyone up to speed. THEN you can complain. But asking parents to teach this stuff so you don't have to is ignorant to the fact that not all parents can.

Rant over!

It does not require "privilege" to learn proper email etiquette. This information is now freely available on the internet. Nor does it require "privilege" to have good manners and high motivation. In fact, those without privilege should be even more highly motivated to learn manners and work hard so they can escape their un-privileged condition despite having parents who "can't" teach manners and motivation. Enough with the weaksauce excuses.

If you are not motivated, what are you even doing in college? Just checking the box?

+1 my uneducated blue collar parents taught us to be respectful and have good manners. You don't need wealth to teach those things. That's ridiculous. Oh, and they immigrants who don't speak much English.

+2 - from another who grew up on the wrong side of the tracks, with an immigrant parent

While they may not always be remembered, manners are free and often yield huge benefits. Rudeness, however, is seldom forgotten and often has a high cost.

+3 I'm not a professor, but I've had three college interns every summer for the past decade or so. It's not the immigrants or less privileged young adults whom I've had issues with re: respectful communication, timeliness, professionalism, etc. I mean, there might be a few things that are maybe "tells" that they did not grow up MC or UMC, but almost universally, they are humble, hardworking, accept feedback, and are respectful. And they are really, really trying to do well.

It's the UMC kids of "they don't need to learn to do laundry! They'll figure it out when the time comes! They're too busy with soccer and SAT prep, anyway" mommies who are the ones that immediately come to mind when I read the op's list. These are the folks who have all the resources/privileges they need to make sure their kid is prepared for the professional world, but no. That'd quash their spirits. Or something.

Anonymous

09/26/2023 20:40 Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college

The email thing does surprise me. My kids are in McPS and the teachers really emphasize the students emailing them with questions (not the parents). Even my 7th grader knows how to write a clear and polite email asking a teacher a question about an assignment. My 12th grader writes emails to parents for clubs she runs and they are excellent. With everything I’m hearing about how hard it is to get into colleges now, how are these kids writing “yo do I need to read the textbook for the test answer right away” getting in?????

Anonymous

09/26/2023 20:39 Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college

Anonymous

09/26/2023 20:03 Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please stop making excuses for your children (SN or not) and take OPs concerns to heart. So many of these basic skills should be taught at home, and the earlier the better!

-MS teacher who has parents constantly making excuses for their children instead of helping them learn accountability and other necessary skills they should be practicing throughout HS so these issues are not bigger problems by the time they reach college.

Maybe one day you will understand that kids like my son try harder than anyone else, work harder than anyone else, only to achieve less than the top students. I have taught my son do to ALL the things the OP listed, and he still can't quite communicate as precisely as you'd wish. He's a work in progress, and he will get better as his ADHD brain matures. But despite working harder than everyone else, he can't mature as fast.

So when you see someone with an IEP, imagine that to get where they are, they've worked until 3am most weekdays. That's what my son did to get through his AP Calc BC class. Because he's got a high IQ, actually. He has an incredible work ethic. But he still needs accommodations and understanding.

A lot of posters are so cruel and dismissive, and what hurts most are the educators who believe that kids with special needs are lazy, and their parents are letting them skate by.

NO. WE'RE NOT. WE'RE WORKING HARDER THAN NORMAL FAMILIES. I know this because I barely have to parent my non-SN kids and they effortlessly achieve more than my SN kid does.

A little respect here!

Anonymous

09/26/2023 19:56 Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college

Anonymous wrote:Please stop making excuses for your children (SN or not) and take OPs concerns to heart. So many of these basic skills should be taught at home, and the earlier the better!

-MS teacher who has parents constantly making excuses for their children instead of helping them learn accountability and other necessary skills they should be practicing throughout HS so these issues are not bigger problems by the time they reach college.

Maybe one day you will understand that kids like my son try harder than anyone else, work harder than anyone else, only to achieve less than the top students. I have taught my son do to ALL the things the OP listed, and he still can't quite communicate as precisely as you'd wish. He's a work in progress, and he will get better as his ADHD brain matures. But despite working harder than everyone else, he can't mature as fast.

So when you see someone with an IEP, imagine that to get where they are, they've worked until 3am most weekdays. That's what my son did to get through his AP Calc BC class. Because he's got a high IQ, actually. He has an incredible work ethic. But he still needs accommodations and understanding.

A lot of posters are so cruel and dismissive, and what hurts most are the educators who believe that kids with special needs are lazy, and their parents are letting them skate by.

NO. WE'RE NOT. WE'RE WORKING HARDER THAN NORMAL FAMILIES. I know this because I barely have to parent my non-SN kids and they effortlessly achieve more than my SN kid does.

A little respect here!

Anonymous

09/26/2023 19:34 Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college

Please stop making excuses for your children (SN or not) and take OPs concerns to heart. So many of these basic skills should be taught at home, and the earlier the better!

-MS teacher who has parents constantly making excuses for their children instead of helping them learn accountability and other necessary skills they should be practicing throughout HS so these issues are not bigger problems by the time they reach college.

Anonymous

09/26/2023 18:32 Subject: Re:Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college

Anonymous wrote:The post answers speak for themselves: for the parents who can sympathize with the professor--good for you. He's not complaining about your kids. For the parents who are all defensive and think that the professor is off base--take a minute. It's your kids he's talking about. Just saying.

Good point. This is the forum where some people post new threads about the most mundane adjustment issues within weeks of dropping them off at college. They're also the ones raging that Larla doesn't have the same services and amenities as a five-start resort because "I'm paying so much for this!"

These parents are absolutely among us.

Anonymous

09/26/2023 18:24 Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Dear Prof,

I have been working on these and other skills for years with my ADHD/ASD kid.

He will mess up, despite being explicitly taught these things. He's in contact with the disability office and has already asked you for his extended time.

He had high stats and is an academic, intellectual person, which is why your place of employment accepted him. Sorry, but he's always going to be an absent-minded professor type, and his brain is somewhere in the vicinity of Pluto most of the time.

And you know who it hurts most? Not you. HIM. He is destined to go through life with ADHD and ASD and all his social quirks. You've only got to suffer him for your class. He has to suffer himself for life.

Best regards,

Mom.

Oh FFS stop using their disabilities like a crutch. The professor is right and if your poor addled ADHD kids you have probably hovered over and made excuses for and bulldozed a path for over the years can’t meet basic expectations, you failed them.

dp.. obviously, people with ADHD have a harder time, but seriously, you cannot keep using this crutch into the workplace. Your boss won't care that you miss deadlines, and your coworkers won't care if you have adhd when you smell so badly no one wants to be in the conference room with you.

I often wonder what the plan is for all these SNs college grads. Do you steer them into becoming a CPA or actuary or computer programmer, etc. where they perhaps don't have to interact much with clients/customers? I mean the descriptions seem to indicate they have real problems functioning in the world.

I have severe ADHD that got worse w age. Thank God I made bank in my 20s and 30s, saved and invested, because I’ve been underemployed since. Told my kids to do the same and marry a project manager like I did!

Anonymous

09/26/2023 18:23 Subject: Re:Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college

Anonymous wrote:The post answers speak for themselves: for the parents who can sympathize with the professor--good for you. He's not complaining about your kids. For the parents who are all defensive and think that the professor is off base--take a minute. It's your kids he's talking about. Just saying.

probably

Anonymous

09/26/2023 18:22 Subject: Parents- nix these behaviors in your kids before they go to college

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Another professor here.

Disagree strongly with your email etiquette gripe. Not all kids have the benefit of being born into a family or attending a high school that conveys these skills. As educators, yes, even college educators with precious research agendas, it's our job to convey knowledge but also soft skills. Or at least point students in the right direction and have tolerance and empathy as they learn. It sounds like you teach Freshmen, so you especially should temper the expectation that all students arrive on campus "polished."

Honestly, it's annoying when students are rude and lacking any motivation. But unless every single student you teach is privileged, which how could you know that?, have some empathy and patience and don't assume the worst and be a positive force. Take 5 minutes to talk about these things to get everyone up to speed. THEN you can complain. But asking parents to teach this stuff so you don't have to is ignorant to the fact that not all parents can.

Rant over!

I agree with OP Professor's wishes but also appreciate PP Professor's realism.

Parent here who thinks their own child is lacking email communication skills and only recently discovered.

The thing is - out child has always been independent and did great in school so we didn't get involved (nor would they have let us). They are also a kid that doesn't love social media and tries to avoid computer communication...but clearly to a fault.

I wish their (very capable) HS had covered this - and if they did - they need to do it more explicitly.

I VERY MUCH hope that their professors and their advisor at their college will cover this AND will call out students personally (of course in kind way) so they can learn.

Email communication is an important skill (even if kids don't like to communicate that way) and I wish our child had been "called out on" this (and other communication skills) before now.

They certainly won't be listening to anything we (as parents) have to say about how to communicate, especially when it comes to digital communications.

I'm a PP who has taught my DC how to communicate to adults, including via email

Part of the problem I'm seeing is that kids DON'T ever use email. DCs told me that they only text people. Email is like having to write a letter, and kids don't do that, either.

However, they do need to learn to communicate effectively with adults. You can start small, like calling the barber to schedule an appointment. I made my DC do that when they were in 9th grade, and DC said they were soo nervous. LOL. To be fair, there is very little opportunity while in MS/HS to write an email to an adult.