Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I teach kids and they can be cruel and mean to one another for many reasons, none of which are fair. But as a parent, it is your job to make your child likeable! Are they cheerful, generous, kind, funny, dressed nicely, listen to adults? If any of those things still need to be worked on, work on those! Parents have this notion that everyone needs to be included and the truth is that only works until kids are old enough to choose their own friendships. Hopefully you don’t waste your time complaining about mean moms and help your child become someone other kids want to be with and other parents love having around their kids.

As the parent of a child with ASD and ADHD, this literally ruined my morning. We've done everything (therapy, social skills classes, medication) and he's not a neurotypical person, and thus, less likable to many. He does listen to adults, and can be generous and funny and kind at times, but can't do them consistently. Nor is he generally especially cheerful or nicely dressed (due to sensory issues).

+1 I feel for you and that PP is an ass. My kid with medically documented neurological issues is not likeable to most people either. F*** 'em.

The bolded. You can completely disregard someone who makes such moronic statements. As a parent, it's my job to help my kid be a decent, productive citizen *to the best of her/his ability*. Cheerful? Bite me.

I can admit to some light social engineering in ES (as in, "honey -- that kid punched Larlo and shoved Larla, so maybe see if Sophia wants to go down the slide with you")- nothing crazy. Not much discouraging of friendships (i.e. whoever you like from class is more than welcome at the birthday party), but I did encourage friendships that I thought were a good match for the children and the families. It may be a first gen tendency (I can be very strict comparatively, and we need friends who at least get it if not agree), but in the back of my mind, understanding if values were compatible with ours was a thought (not the sole thought).

I do not get involved in MS. It's for the kids to figure it out. While I still think about values a little, my kid is becoming their own person and will have to negotiate personalities on her own.

I find a lot of the parental complaining starting at the tween years comes from those who have sour grapes that they didn't lay a foundation for their kids to be friendlier with children that you'd actually want your kids to be friends with. It's usually not that their kids have "no friends"- it's just not the "right" friends so if those desired friend groups are good and happy as they are, suddenly it's exclusion and bullying against their child. Friendships must come naturally at that age and can't be forced.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

I teach kids and they can be cruel and mean to one another for many reasons, none of which are fair. But as a parent, it is your job to make your child likeable! Are they cheerful, generous, kind, funny, dressed nicely, listen to adults? If any of those things still need to be worked on, work on those! Parents have this notion that everyone needs to be included and the truth is that only works until kids are old enough to choose their own friendships. Hopefully you don’t waste your time complaining about mean moms and help your child become someone other kids want to be with and other parents love having around their kids.

As the parent of a child with ASD and ADHD, this literally ruined my morning. We've done everything (therapy, social skills classes, medication) and he's not a neurotypical person, and thus, less likable to many. He does listen to adults, and can be generous and funny and kind at times, but can't do them consistently. Nor is he generally especially cheerful or nicely dressed (due to sensory issues).

+1 I feel for you and that PP is an ass. My kid with medically documented neurological issues is not likeable to most people either. F*** 'em.

I am not sure why you are so offended. This thread is about middle school moms controlling kids’ social lives. I was not the pp but I posted previously that my kids drive their social plans, not the moms.

For the record, I have one very popular kid, one shy introvert and one in the middle. Moms may drive social plans in elementary but not in middle or high school. I don’t think the pp is wrong in trying to have kid be more likable and not blaming other moms for not including a kid who is left out.

I am the hang out house. I let my kids have 1-2 kids over at a time. Sometimes that group grows to 3-4 and at max 5. I am not picking these kids to invite. There are a few kids who are poorly behaved that I prefer not to come. This has nothing to do with coolness or popularity.

Anonymous wrote:

I teach kids and they can be cruel and mean to one another for many reasons, none of which are fair. But as a parent, it is your job to make your child likeable! Are they cheerful, generous, kind, funny, dressed nicely, listen to adults? If any of those things still need to be worked on, work on those! Parents have this notion that everyone needs to be included and the truth is that only works until kids are old enough to choose their own friendships. Hopefully you don’t waste your time complaining about mean moms and help your child become someone other kids want to be with and other parents love having around their kids.

As the parent of a child with ASD and ADHD, this literally ruined my morning. We've done everything (therapy, social skills classes, medication) and he's not a neurotypical person, and thus, less likable to many. He does listen to adults, and can be generous and funny and kind at times, but can't do them consistently. Nor is he generally especially cheerful or nicely dressed (due to sensory issues).

+1 I feel for you and that PP is an ass. My kid with medically documented neurological issues is not likeable to most people either. F*** 'em.

Anonymous wrote:

I teach kids and they can be cruel and mean to one another for many reasons, none of which are fair. But as a parent, it is your job to make your child likeable! Are they cheerful, generous, kind, funny, dressed nicely, listen to adults? If any of those things still need to be worked on, work on those! Parents have this notion that everyone needs to be included and the truth is that only works until kids are old enough to choose their own friendships. Hopefully you don’t waste your time complaining about mean moms and help your child become someone other kids want to be with and other parents love having around their kids.

As the parent of a child with ASD and ADHD, this literally ruined my morning. We've done everything (therapy, social skills classes, medication) and he's not a neurotypical person, and thus, less likable to many. He does listen to adults, and can be generous and funny and kind at times, but can't do them consistently. Nor is he generally especially cheerful or nicely dressed (due to sensory issues).

This shouldn’t ruin your morning. That is one parent’s perspective. I agree with the PP mostly. This notion that everyone should be included in everything is bananas and needs to stop. I certainly don’t teach it to my kids. I teach them to be kind to everyone, but I will not burden them with feeling like they need to include as many people as possible in all plans always. Likewise, they don’t seem at all bothered when they aren’t invited to something. That is a normal part of life. Maybe it is personal, maybe it isn’t. You never know the circumstances and it doesn’t really matter why.

As for your child is ASD/ADHD. PP’s child likely isn’t going to be his best friend, and that is fine. He will find his people and they will probably be similar to him and their parents will value your son and his friendship, quirks and all.

I have zero problems or guilt excluding kids that are rude, don’t listen, have poor manners, or that stir up trouble.

Anonymous wrote:I do think Mothers will exclude kids out of spite if they feel like that kid ever wronged their child. Some moms never even consider that their child had some fault in whatever event. I see this all the time. There is no slack on the Mom level for some Moms. They’re out to protect in force from any perceived threat.

Ive see this but its not usually a perceived slight the slight is real and the mom is retaliating. Often because their kid was left out of some social thing like not invited to the bday party. So the mom will exclude that child at her next event. What comes around goes around.

I teach kids and they can be cruel and mean to one another for many reasons, none of which are fair. But as a parent, it is your job to make your child likeable! Are they cheerful, generous, kind, funny, dressed nicely, listen to adults? If any of those things still need to be worked on, work on those! Parents have this notion that everyone needs to be included and the truth is that only works until kids are old enough to choose their own friendships. Hopefully you don’t waste your time complaining about mean moms and help your child become someone other kids want to be with and other parents love having around their kids.

As the parent of a child with ASD and ADHD, this literally ruined my morning. We've done everything (therapy, social skills classes, medication) and he's not a neurotypical person, and thus, less likable to many. He does listen to adults, and can be generous and funny and kind at times, but can't do them consistently. Nor is he generally especially cheerful or nicely dressed (due to sensory issues).

I guess I do this to the limited extent that, if I do not know a kid's parents at all - like don't have their contact info - I am less likely to encourage my kid to reach out to them to hang out. I have nothing against the kid or parents, but I am less comfortable with my son going to their place, and it is trickier at times to coordinate them coming here. Of course, if my son wants to arrange it totally on his own, that's fine, but he's generally disorganized, and it rarely seems to work out.

I do think Mothers will exclude kids out of spite if they feel like that kid ever wronged their child. Some moms never even consider that their child had some fault in whatever event. I see this all the time. There is no slack on the Mom level for some Moms. They’re out to protect in force from any perceived threat.

Anonymous wrote:People are way lazier than you think. No one is excluding a child out of malice, and definitely not because of “geeky” interests. I get along with lots of parents, but there are many children who are difficult. If your child is even slightly rude or rambunctious, most parents will opt for nicer kid. Most people love delightful children, and there are few of them so they become “popular”.

Anonymous wrote:People are way lazier than you think. No one is excluding a child out of malice, and definitely not because of “geeky” interests. I get along with lots of parents, but there are many children who are difficult. If your child is even slightly rude or rambunctious, most parents will opt for nicer kid. Most people love delightful children, and there are few of them so they become “popular”.

Oh, mothers are excluding kids out of malice. We moved when my daughter was in third grade. Two girls immediately clung to her. When she had a birthday party I invited all the girls and some from her old school. One mother told me her two new friends were the meanest girls in third grade. Great. My daughter was quiet and never joined in their rude bully ways. But the 3rd, 4th and 5th grade teachers mentioned that my daughter should choose different friends. She was nothing like them but it’s kind of guilt by association.

I would get some girls together on early days. A mother would say “she can’t if Jessy is there”. Mothers who were so transparent in wanting their child to be popular that even the kids notice. The things they said were horrible. Laughing at children’s clothes, hair, whatever right in front of their own children. Leaving one girl out because she’s a dork.

People are way lazier than you think. No one is excluding a child out of malice, and definitely not because of “geeky” interests. I get along with lots of parents, but there are many children who are difficult. If your child is even slightly rude or rambunctious, most parents will opt for nicer kid. Most people love delightful children, and there are few of them so they become “popular”.

I overheard this conversation at the orthodonist this morning "I need to know which college my daughter is going to so I can start making friends and make rush easier for her" ugh do moms really do this?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Moms have a huge impact on tweens because they hold the strings - money, Comms, transportation. Some are good about not influencing tweens but a lot are equally involved. I know both types but OPs absolutely correct that if you meet the wrong one, totally 100%, do not fool yourself that the kid your kid is with has any say in that relationship. I've def seen it happen. Even borderline relationships where neighborhood girls who were great together who went to to separate schools for MS, if us moms stayed better friends I guarantee our girls would be closer than they are now. And even my kid wants to do more with the other as sometimes she misses her, and encouragement from the other mom prob would allow the reconnection but the other mom has moved in from me. I'm pretty sure the other girl given a couple connections to who my girl knows feels same way but we never hear from her directly. I stay out if it and ultimately my kid needs to figure out what she wants but just saying def moms at age 11-12 can strongly influence kids' relationships. They are the adults and ultimately make all the decisions as they see fit. It depends on what kind of person they are so your kid choosing their friends isn't really true

THIS!!! Look, it's easy for moms to control the scene. VERY EASY. DD wants to go to Starbucks with Y but I don't like Y as a kid, it's super easy to say no to this. DD wants to do camp with X but I don't like X or her mom, i act wishy washy when they approach me about camp plans. DD wants Z to come over for dinner/sleepover but I dont like Z--- guess what the answer is going to be???????? You got it. This happens all the time and with enough NOs from either direction, the kids stop trying to hang with one another. BOOM--mom success in controlling her kids social life!!!!!!!!!!! When there is seemingly no reason for this distance, especially if kids were very close at one point and MOM allowed this stuff, then it can be cruel and mom becomes the meanest girl in MS.


Not sure why everyone is so defensive about this.

I really don’t think it is as calculated as you think.

My tween/teens are boys but I also have an elementary daughter. My boys were included and not included over the years. Some years I was the one trying to sign friends up together and wishy washy in other years. It is less about the person and truly about our schedule.

This one mom that I really like tried to get our girls to do the same dance and tennis last year. I would have but it conflicted with my boys’ sports. This year, we tried to sign up together again but I asked her and her daughter was no longer interested in the dance class. I have had moms ask me to join soccer and I never signed up. I don’t think I was specifically asked but we didn’t join and we missed out on a clique. One mom once switched to a different time. I thought it was rude at the time but I don’t care.

If anything, only the very top favorite of mom or friend gets the priority. I remember right before Covid, DS’s friend wanted to sign up for camps together. I told them we were trying to figure out our summer plans first. I know they felt blown off. Others have asked us to sign up for overnight camps together. We just weren’t interested even if I like parents and kids.