Anonymous
Post 09/23/2023 19:14     Subject: Transfer from TJ to Base HS?
Anonymous wrote:The question is why is math so much harder at TJ than the base school. Are they doing higher level math or is there just more math?


Math remains math whether at TJ or in a base school. The big difference is at TJ the teachers have an obligation to teach it at an indepth level as it is a stem magnate school. At TJ, teachers are not constrained by arbitrary homework time limits, as they are at base schools. Where as at base school the teachers hands are tied with how much homework can be assigned on a daily basis per subject. Here is the FCPS base school policy:

"To ensure that student homework falls within FCPS regulations, middle school teachers should plan for homework not to exceed 25 minutes per class block, and high school teachers should plan for homework not to exceed 30 minutes per class block. Reading assignments are considered part of the homework load. Long-term projects may require additional time. Teachers should adjust daily homework assignments accordingly."

Many base school math teachers dont consistently assign daily homework, and when they do, it often falls short of the minimum allowed. This reluctance to assign homework primarily stems from teachers' desire to avoid potential confrontations with ignorant parents who misconstrue homework assignments as a substitute for classroom instruction as opposed to complementing it. Unfortunately, the FCPS board, as dumb as it is, sides with these contentious parents, and implements these homework time limitations.

At TJ, all teachers, including math instructors, are exempt from these restrictive time limits. Mastery of mathematical concepts demands time, which is limited during class periods, necessitating additional homework as an indispensable component. Learning a math concept involves three crucial aspects: grasping the concept, achieving proficiency through accuracy and speed, and learning how to apply that concept. In-class teachers primarily focus on introducing and explaining concepts, leaving the proficiency and application components to be addressed through textbook problems and follow on in-class reviews of difficult problems.

TJ's teachers possess the flexibility to ensure a comprehensive end-to-end math learning process through a balanced combination of classroom instruction, essential homework assignments, and periodic assessments such as quizzes and unit tests. Unfortunately, math instruction at base schools has become politicized to an extent where unreasonable time limits impede teachers from assigning the necessary amount of homework. Teachers are even prohibited from assigning the recommended amount of homework by the College Board for AP courses. Here's what the College Board recommends for AP courses, highlighting the disparity with FCPS's homework limits:

https://centrevillehs.fcps.edu/sites/default/files/media/inline-files/math-course-expect-AP-Honors.pdf
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2023 15:55     Subject: Transfer from TJ to Base HS?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:except they are gifted in math, presumably


What's the use of labeling kids as gifted if they don't have the required knowledge for early TJ Math classes and are left to struggle without assistance? If FCPS has chosen an equity-based admission approach, they should start by identifying those who aren't adequately prepared and openly offer remedial support to prevent any dropouts.

What specific outside enrichment? Like kumon?

I think you're confused. The new process is based on merit, whereas the old one was whether your family invested in outside enrichment. Not sure how you come up with equity to describe leveling the playing field.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2023 15:54     Subject: Transfer from TJ to Base HS?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:except they are gifted in math, presumably


What's the use of labeling kids as gifted if they don't have the required knowledge for early TJ Math classes and are left to struggle without assistance? If FCPS has chosen an equity-based admission approach, they should start by identifying those who aren't adequately prepared and openly offer remedial support to prevent any dropouts.


What specific outside enrichment? Like kumon?

I think you're confused. The new process is based on merit, whereas the old one was whether your family invested in outside enrichment. Not sure how you come up with equity to describe leveling the playing field.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2023 13:13     Subject: Transfer from TJ to Base HS?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:except they are gifted in math, presumably


What's the use of labeling kids as gifted if they don't have the required knowledge for early TJ Math classes and are left to struggle without assistance? If FCPS has chosen an equity-based admission approach, they should start by identifying those who aren't adequately prepared and openly offer remedial support to prevent any dropouts.


I think you're confused. The new process is based on merit, whereas the old one was whether your family invested in outside enrichment. Not sure how you come up with equity to describe leveling the playing field.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2023 08:58     Subject: Transfer from TJ to Base HS?
It is not more math or higher level math. In base HS, you learn the theory and the problems are pretty direct application of that theory. You understand the theory, you just apply it.

At TJ, you need to figure out how to apply that theory, because it is not just straight application. You need strong analytical and thinking skills. You have to spend time thinking about the problem.

In one of the subjects, my child was able to do a problem, but would get zero points because, wait for it, it is not elegant or the simplest possible one. It is a tough problem, and it took him a day later to figure out how to do it. Some children like these things a lot and some hate it.

I am tremendously impressed with the teacher for giving these kinds of problems. For me, this is the reason to go to TJ for this experience.
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2023 07:41     Subject: Transfer from TJ to Base HS?
The question is why is math so much harder at TJ than the base school. Are they doing higher level math or is there just more math?
Anonymous
Post 09/23/2023 05:46     Subject: Transfer from TJ to Base HS?
Anonymous wrote:My kid is a freshmen in TJ, taking math 3 (Algebra 2 honor). Today to learn 2 parts math of an Unit, students will have a small test for learning on next math class. Then students will have an unit test (80minutes) nearly every month. No mention whether the math is hard or not, but the learning and testing speed is very fast. So my kid must spend at least 2 -3 hours to do homework every evening. The math 3 really is some hard for students who does not learn before or without tutor on homework. TJ teacher do not teach students according to the textbook content. I find some content of algebra 2 coming from precalculus . My kid told me many classmates do not know how to do the homework and got low scores in test. Even though TJ teachers are very nice to students, and students also like TJ and their teachers. But a lot of homework and hard test are true in TJ.


Mathematics courses at levels 4 and 5 have proven to be quite challenging. My child, who used to have a strong passion for math before attending TJ, has unfortunately lost their enthusiasm for the subject by the time they reached AP Calculus.
Anonymous
Post 09/22/2023 11:34     Subject: Transfer from TJ to Base HS?
Anonymous wrote:My kid is a freshmen in TJ, taking math 3 (Algebra 2 honor). Today to learn 2 parts math of an Unit, students will have a small test for learning on next math class. Then students will have an unit test (80minutes) nearly every month. No mention whether the math is hard or not, but the learning and testing speed is very fast. So my kid must spend at least 2 -3 hours to do homework every evening. The math 3 really is some hard for students who does not learn before or without tutor on homework. TJ teacher do not teach students according to the textbook content. I find some content of algebra 2 coming from precalculus . My kid told me many classmates do not know how to do the homework and got low scores in test. Even though TJ teachers are very nice to students, and students also like TJ and their teachers. But a lot of homework and hard test are true in TJ.


Math 4 and 5 are even harder than math 3. You will have a quiz about every two weeks and then a unit test every 4 weeks. Calculus is not easier. Teachers sometimes will curve it so that the class average is somewhere around 70s. Humanities are not easy either. Having a few Bs makes it almost impossible to get into schools like UVA which generally has a GPA cutoff of 4.3 at least. OP, I think your DC made the right choice. The issue is not about one subject. If you need to spend 2-3 hours on a subject, where would you have time for other subjects? Each requires time input to do well. Either you improve your time management skill or some classes come easy for you so that you can spend your time on weaker subjects.
Anonymous
Post 09/22/2023 10:56     Subject: Transfer from TJ to Base HS?
My kid is a freshmen in TJ, taking math 3 (Algebra 2 honor). Today to learn 2 parts math of an Unit, students will have a small test for learning on next math class. Then students will have an unit test (80minutes) nearly every month. No mention whether the math is hard or not, but the learning and testing speed is very fast. So my kid must spend at least 2 -3 hours to do homework every evening. The math 3 really is some hard for students who does not learn before or without tutor on homework. TJ teacher do not teach students according to the textbook content. I find some content of algebra 2 coming from precalculus . My kid told me many classmates do not know how to do the homework and got low scores in test. Even though TJ teachers are very nice to students, and students also like TJ and their teachers. But a lot of homework and hard test are true in TJ.
Anonymous
Post 09/22/2023 10:47     Subject: Transfer from TJ to Base HS?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:except they are gifted in math, presumably


What's the use of labeling kids as gifted if they don't have the required knowledge for early TJ Math classes and are left to struggle without assistance? If FCPS has chosen an equity-based admission approach, they should start by identifying those who aren't adequately prepared and openly offer remedial support to prevent any dropouts.


They do. But some students choose to return to their base school rather than tutoring.

FWIW - it's not an issue of required knowledge or being gifted. The TJ Math department is well known to be tough, maybe unreasonably tough, and has reduced many students' previous enjoyment of math. Rather than offering remediation, another change would be better, imo.
Anonymous
Post 09/22/2023 10:42     Subject: Transfer from TJ to Base HS?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:except they are gifted in math, presumably


What's the use of labeling kids as gifted if they don't have the required knowledge for early TJ Math classes and are left to struggle without assistance? If FCPS has chosen an equity-based admission approach, they should start by identifying those who aren't adequately prepared and openly offer remedial support to prevent any dropouts.


The easiest answer would be to implement a baseline competence test for all TJ applicants. Kids scoring below the threshold should not be offered admissions. They wouldn't necessarily need to use the scores as an admissions factor for kids above the threshold.

Expanding access to TJ is great. Admitting kids who lack the requisite foundations and then setting them up to fail isn't.
Anonymous
Post 09/22/2023 09:25     Subject: Transfer from TJ to Base HS?
Anonymous wrote:except they are gifted in math, presumably


What's the use of labeling kids as gifted if they don't have the required knowledge for early TJ Math classes and are left to struggle without assistance? If FCPS has chosen an equity-based admission approach, they should start by identifying those who aren't adequately prepared and openly offer remedial support to prevent any dropouts.


Anonymous
Post 09/21/2023 21:59     Subject: Transfer from TJ to Base HS?
except they are gifted in math, presumably
Anonymous
Post 09/21/2023 21:07     Subject: Transfer from TJ to Base HS?
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:DC decided to move back. Chem was just an example of the work required. DC is finding out that Math at TJ is hard, even though curriculum is the same. Currently taking Math 4 ( pre-calculus) - not enjoying it. DC is frustrated as the material and HW assignments are perfectly fine - but the quizzes are a step above in terms of difficulty etc.

No need to take that stress. And I am glad that DC took this decision on his own.



One issue my kid faced was that other math teachers were setting the tests. Her teacher was frustrated not knowing what these test setters were going to include in the test. Kids in the test setters' classes were better off as they'd covered the material.


Wishing your kid a smooth transition.

More than anything quizzes and tests are quite a jump up from base HS. We have experience with both. At base the content was tested directly. If you read the content and understood it, you are going to get 100%.

Not so at TJ. You need to understand it in depth and be able to apply it in a different situation. This is exactly like what you would find at undergrad level. This is above and beyond what you can expect of a high school student.

Anonymous
Post 09/21/2023 20:37     Subject: Transfer from TJ to Base HS?
Anonymous wrote:DC decided to move back. Chem was just an example of the work required. DC is finding out that Math at TJ is hard, even though curriculum is the same. Currently taking Math 4 ( pre-calculus) - not enjoying it. DC is frustrated as the material and HW assignments are perfectly fine - but the quizzes are a step above in terms of difficulty etc.

No need to take that stress. And I am glad that DC took this decision on his own.



One issue my kid faced was that other math teachers were setting the tests. Her teacher was frustrated not knowing what these test setters were going to include in the test. Kids in the test setters' classes were better off as they'd covered the material.