Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Op here. These are all helpful perspectives. I make about 230 and he makes about 160. He is open to somewhere near a cool town/small city like Burlington VT.

If your marriage falls apart and you need or want to move back to DC for work, you won’t be able to with the kids. Moving to Vermont means Vermont has jurisdiction over your children. This is about much more than a “cool” town.

Tell your DH to get a weekend outdoorsy hobby and grow up. If he truly loves the outdoors he’d already be taking advantage of the hiking, biking, camping & boating available in this area. If he’s not, then he’s lying to himself about what he really wants.

Agree. He is likely idealizing moving and perhaps masking underlying other issues with this as a panacea.

OP - another perspective here:

DC is objectively a way crappier place than many other places in the US. It's totally reasonable that people aren't happy in DC. The people I know who are satisfied living in DC either have long family roots there, or they love their jobs - but for the latter category, they don't actually enjoy the rest of their lives. They just go through those motions to get to really love their jobs. I get that; I have a job that I love and provides me a lot of fulfillment. But I don't know anyone in DC who is jazzed about what day to day life is like, outside of their jobs.

If I were you, I would at least open myself to the possibility of living somewhere else.

In 2023, there are a lot of jobs with remote possibilities. There are also real jobs in other mid-sized cities. I'm a biglaw lawyer, and many of my clients work in places like St Louis or Asheville. And they're only in the office for 2 days a week, so they live an hour from work in super rural settings. Stuff that's not possible in DC. If you work in the White House or capital hill, then yeah I get that you can't leave the DC area. But if you're a power lawyer, a lobbyist, a non-profit worker, a project manager.... you can potentially find other comparably satisfying roles elsewhere in the US.

I have a friend whose DH wanted them to move to an undeveloped country in South Asia for his job. She was a US trained lawyer and would literally be unable to work in her field there. That was dick of him to even ask. But here... there are possibly jobs you could find.

I would at least be open to the possibility. Because you may find that you're all a lot happier in a more rural or low key place (I don't know anyone who ever left DC for somewhere better and regretted it). And you may be able to balance your career too.

Anonymous wrote:Op here. These are all helpful perspectives. I make about 230 and he makes about 160. He is open to somewhere near a cool town/small city like Burlington VT.

If your marriage falls apart and you need or want to move back to DC for work, you won’t be able to with the kids. Moving to Vermont means Vermont has jurisdiction over your children. This is about much more than a “cool” town.

Tell your DH to get a weekend outdoorsy hobby and grow up. If he truly loves the outdoors he’d already be taking advantage of the hiking, biking, camping & boating available in this area. If he’s not, then he’s lying to himself about what he really wants.

Op here. These are all helpful perspectives. I make about 230 and he makes about 160. He is open to somewhere near a cool town/small city like Burlington VT.

Anonymous wrote:I was in this situation but DH at least wanted to move to another city. The thing is I have a federal niche job that pays well and would be impossible to replicate. We decided to explore it and he himself said no, he would be undermining my career, etc. He made his peace with it. He began seeking out things he liked here and realizing his constant longing for his home area just needed to be dealt with via visits. I’m glad he figured this out himself. I will say “getting real” about it is what made a difference. Once he really stopped and thought about the financial side, the long-term benefits of having a thriving career, etc., he could see the folly of it. So, perhaps really digging into the logistics of it, essentially, may be worthwhile.

I agree with this. Looking into the logistics of it is worthwhile.

Anonymous wrote:First of all, you need to stop taking responsibility for his feelings and treat him like an adult.

Your husband needs to own what he is asking you to give up. If you’re a fed chemist and your only job opportunity in rural Maine would be working as a high school Chem teacher, your husband needs to verbalize that he wants you to give up your career. He needs to have a plan for how your family is going to deal with the financial loss of half your HHI. To be honest, your husband’s approach of putting pressure on you and turning you into a roadblock type boss or mommy figure who is saying “no” to his dreams is a big red flag.

The second red flag is that he’s not doing any of the work to come up with a plan. And again, this happening when he actively wants something from you. This is the most amenable he’s ever going to be to putting in work to make this happen. If you move this is not a guy who is going to help if you end up depressed and isolated in a blizzard in Maine. He’s going to annoyed you’re such a downer.

And lastly, you say your marriage is on the rocks. These types of moves with a trailing spouse tend to stress the best of marriages. In your case it’s very likely to be the final catalyst towards the divorce. Then you’d be stuck in the middle of nowhere, with no career potential until your daughter graduates high school.

This. Op, put pressure on dh to plan “for the whole family” not just for himself. Also, if he likes, he can move on his own and do long distance for a while with him there and you here. See how he settles…

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people here dismissing his proposal out of hand are clearly very sheltered and biased against rural areas. Well, they have A LOT to recommend them. A lot.

Did you miss the part about how she would also love to live in his preferred area, except that her career is here!! It’s not just which is better, Vermont vs DC. They have a low mortgage and her job is here, it’s not on equal footing.

Did you kiss the part where she won’t say what either of them makes? It’s entirely possible they will have a better quality of life with lower cost of living on his salary alone or both of theirs combined in the new area.

Income isn't everything. I posted this earlier, but this job seems like a rare unicorn and she loves it. Why would you leave something this good to go to the unknown: "To make this move, I would have to give up my current career and try to find something totally new to do, likely taking a pay cut and giving up the flexibility, autonomy and seniority that I enjoy in my current job. I care deeply about my job and my seniority affords me lots of flexibility (e.g. I work remotely for a month each summer, so we spend that whole month in nature, plus I have plenty of vacation time)."[u]

Does it have to be rural or can it be a town in an area with more natural beauty? Would Burlington, Vermont work or Newburgh, NY? A previous poster mentioned Boulder, Colorado. There must be hundreds of decent sized towns in pretty areas that have jobs, good schools, youth sports, etc.

I read an article in Women's Health about people who get more depressed in those beautiful locations--I can't remember all the points made, but some include--there are more people around during the warm months and winter can be very very hard. It can be a transient community so you lose friends frequently. Fewer opportunities to do the things you want.

My dh tends to idealize his childhood and vacations, which I guess is what your dh is doing. When you're in real life there you're still doing the grocery shopping and the carpooling and parenting the different stages that your kids are going through, being by a mountain doesn't make those teen emotions better.

I was in this situation but DH at least wanted to move to another city. The thing is I have a federal niche job that pays well and would be impossible to replicate. We decided to explore it and he himself said no, he would be undermining my career, etc. He made his peace with it. He began seeking out things he liked here and realizing his constant longing for his home area just needed to be dealt with via visits. I’m glad he figured this out himself. I will say “getting real” about it is what made a difference. Once he really stopped and thought about the financial side, the long-term benefits of having a thriving career, etc., he could see the folly of it. So, perhaps really digging into the logistics of it, essentially, may be worthwhile.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people here dismissing his proposal out of hand are clearly very sheltered and biased against rural areas. Well, they have A LOT to recommend them. A lot.

Did you miss the part about how she would also love to live in his preferred area, except that her career is here!! It’s not just which is better, Vermont vs DC. They have a low mortgage and her job is here, it’s not on equal footing.

Did you kiss the part where she won’t say what either of them makes? It’s entirely possible they will have a better quality of life with lower cost of living on his salary alone or both of theirs combined in the new area.

I agree that this information is useful, but they need to factor in benefits. My retirement benefits are worth 7 figures over the long haul.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The people here dismissing his proposal out of hand are clearly very sheltered and biased against rural areas. Well, they have A LOT to recommend them. A lot.

Did you miss the part about how she would also love to live in his preferred area, except that her career is here!! It’s not just which is better, Vermont vs DC. They have a low mortgage and her job is here, it’s not on equal footing.

Did you kiss the part where she won’t say what either of them makes? It’s entirely possible they will have a better quality of life with lower cost of living on his salary alone or both of theirs combined in the new area.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was going to suggest something similar to PP - buy a small cabin as a second home somewhere close enough to travel on weekends that feels really remote - Shenandoah or West Virginia. Spend as much time there as possible, weekends and breaks, and maybe he spends every other week there alone.

Different PP, but we already have a second home in WV. DH enjoys it there, but do you know how difficult it is to spend every weekend at a vacation home once children are school aged. Tomorrow alone we have two soccer games, a birthday party and a scout event. We can go at times, but it’s impossible to spend every weekend out there without sacrificing your children’s ability to make meaningful connections at home.

Yes I do, my parents did this to me growing up. We had to spend every weekend away from home. I hated it. All I wanted was to be in my house on the weekends and to be able to see my friends. Don't do this to your kid, OP. Your husband isn't the only one who matters here.

Anonymous wrote:The people here dismissing his proposal out of hand are clearly very sheltered and biased against rural areas. Well, they have A LOT to recommend them. A lot.

Did you miss the part about how she would also love to live in his preferred area, except that her career is here!! It’s not just which is better, Vermont vs DC. They have a low mortgage and her job is here, it’s not on equal footing.

Anonymous wrote:OP here. We've discussed the remote cabin option but it's still really, really not what he wants. He gets that it may be the compromise we end up with, but he's clear that what he truly wants is a move so that his every day life is out of the city. Paying and maintaining a second house around here doesn't sound very appealing, especially as our kid enters the phase of local activities and birthday parties on weekends. He's not trying to be difficult, but his honest opinion (and I agree) is that a second home near here will not scratch this itch and may be more stressful than helpful.

If we stay in DC, we'll use all vacations and the summer month to go to his ideal locations (and they're my ideal vacation spots too)...but it'll still feel like a pretty big loss to him.

Basically, if we stay here, he loses the opportunity to put down roots and live life in an area that he loves....and if we move, I lose the opportunity to have a career I love. Ugh.

I think at some point he has to accept that this is the life you chose together and make the most of it. I'm sorry, but it's immature to ask your spouse to just pick up and move to the country after they've built a career and you have a great mortgage/cost of living that will be hard to replicate elsewhere.

I also don't think this would even be a discussion if the genders were reversed.

We went through something similar over the last few years. My husband simply HAD to get out of NoVa because he hates it so much (but of course we are living here because of his job!). He found something he could do for a couple of years in his preferred location. The plan was that the kids and I would follow with an eye towards a permanent move. Well, my work situation fell through. And the kids (who have moved a good bit) were dead set against it. He put a lot of pressure on me to still move and "find something" even though I bring in almost half our income. It was like he couldn't really acknowledge that we literally can't pay the bills if I don't work. I finally realized that his request was unreasonable and I didn't have to go along. He moved back this summer.

I'd suggest you consider what's really being asked of you here and why. And act accordingly.