4.45
11 APs (all 5s)
1560 SAT
Applied ED

OP - you will drive yourself crazy with this. The numbers just won’t make sense to you. My kid:

GPA: 4.5-ish at FCPS end of senior year. All A’s or A-‘s. Something like 13 APs? I forget exact numbers

SAT: 1570, submitted

No legacy, athletics or URM

Decent EC’s but nothing out of the norm for many kids.

And her BFF, who has a very similar profile didn’t get into the 2 T15’s she applied to. So what does one learn from this? My DD was hard working (but many kids are). My DD put together a very strong package (but many kids do). My DD was lucky in addition to working hard.

DS at T8 school.
4.1 GPA
ACT only
No ED
No hooks
lots of clubs and HS sports, pt job
3 AP classes

Anonymous wrote:- what were their stats
- did they apply Test Optional
- did they have a hook (athletic recruit, first gen etc)
- did they apply ED

Just trying to understand what’s really possible. Our school’s SCOIR data includes students from many years ago.

DD attends a T10.
4.8 WGPA, 9 APs (all 4s & 5s)
Submitted 1560 SAT
Legacy, but accepted RD (not ED).

Anonymous wrote:Why do we really care about correlations? The posters might need a stats primer!

Yes, this is exactly what we care about. Not sure what you are trying to say.

Have any of your kids transferred among top 25s?

Anonymous wrote:- what were their stats
- did they apply Test Optional
- did they have a hook (athletic recruit, first gen etc)
- did they apply ED

Just trying to understand what’s really possible. Our school’s SCOIR data includes students from many years ago.

what were their stats - 4.5 end jr. yr, 1520
- did they apply Test Optional - No
- did they have a hook (athletic recruit, first gen etc) - first gen
- did they apply ED - EA & RD

I am reading Michael Sandel's most recent book and it has some interesting info. For example, there are more students from the top 1 percent of earners at Ivy League schools than from the bottom half of the income distribution. The facade of a meritocracy is what too many buy into on DCUM. There is a lot of meritocratic hubris here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:- what were their stats
- did they apply Test Optional
- did they have a hook (athletic recruit, first gen etc)
- did they apply ED

Just trying to understand what’s really possible. Our school’s SCOIR data includes students from many years ago.

How about this, tell us your kid's stats and we will tell you if it is possible.

+1. Much faster. Give us your kid's stats as well as what state they are in and what type of school they are attending (public, independent, parochial). We will chance them.

Ok
4.0 UW / 4.7 W
1560 SAT (one time , no superscore)
5s on AP exams taken so far
12 APs , plus 2 years post BC Calc math (multi var calc and DifEq / linear Alg)
4 years varsity in one sport (but not recruited)
National qualifier in an academic Ec
Exceptional ECs in 2 areas w lots of initiative/ leadership and service

NP.. my DC had higher stats, but they were rejected at T25.

It's the essays. There are a gazillion students with great stats.

The essays are where it's at. It's the chance to shine. Some rise to the occasion. Some don't. It's the only place where you can get a an app reader to argue for you at the table. People ignore that at their peril.

Or it's just chance?

Nah. People really underestimating the power of a good essay.

Pretty sure that's how mine got into a top school. Had the grades and the test scores. But the essay was kick-ass. It was really funny and self-deprecating. It totally rocked.

Good writing generally corresponds with good thinking. It's the one spot where applicants can distinguish themselves. And don't even think about using AI or tutors. Readers can sense BS from a mile away

Essays. The dirty secret.

I’ve worked in admissions for many years. It’s pretty well understood that literally anyone could have written the essay. There is no way to know it was the applicant.

Then why have essays at all? The more selective the school, the more supplemental essays there tend to be.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:4.87W, 15 APs
1490 and submitted it
No real hooks
Applied ED

WOW!

Why wow?

Because the kids stats are amazing! Why are you asking?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Big 3
Average grade, averace EC
Not an athlete not a legacy
1480 SAT
ED

This proves the above PP's point - big 3 is the hook.

? Unless you can prove that students from public schools with those stats who ED don't get in, that "proves" nothing.

DP, well most don't get in ED at these schools just because admissions are insanely low. I suspect if private rates are higher, it likely correlates to legacy, money or connections. Same would be true for public (we know a kid who was smart but a jerk student who likely didn't have 4.0 or stellar recs get into Ivy -- dad was high up in govt), but just less of them except maybe at W schools, S w/o W, McLean or Langley.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:4.87W, 15 APs
1490 and submitted it
No real hooks
Applied ED

WOW!

Why wow?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:- what were their stats
- did they apply Test Optional
- did they have a hook (athletic recruit, first gen etc)
- did they apply ED

Just trying to understand what’s really possible. Our school’s SCOIR data includes students from many years ago.

How about this, tell us your kid's stats and we will tell you if it is possible.

+1. Much faster. Give us your kid's stats as well as what state they are in and what type of school they are attending (public, independent, parochial). We will chance them.

Ok
4.0 UW / 4.7 W
1560 SAT (one time , no superscore)
5s on AP exams taken so far
12 APs , plus 2 years post BC Calc math (multi var calc and DifEq / linear Alg)
4 years varsity in one sport (but not recruited)
National qualifier in an academic Ec
Exceptional ECs in 2 areas w lots of initiative/ leadership and service

NP.. my DC had higher stats, but they were rejected at T25.

It's the essays. There are a gazillion students with great stats.

The essays are where it's at. It's the chance to shine. Some rise to the occasion. Some don't. It's the only place where you can get a an app reader to argue for you at the table. People ignore that at their peril.

Or it's just chance?

Nah. People really underestimating the power of a good essay.

Pretty sure that's how mine got into a top school. Had the grades and the test scores. But the essay was kick-ass. It was really funny and self-deprecating. It totally rocked.

Good writing generally corresponds with good thinking. It's the one spot where applicants can distinguish themselves. And don't even think about using AI or tutors. Readers can sense BS from a mile away

Essays. The dirty secret.

I think you are overestimate acting the impact of the essay, most admissions officers admit it has little impact on admissions decisions unless it is bade enough to eliminate a candidate.

+1. Most admissions officers will tell you that the essays aren’t even read until an application passes through several stages of “readers” who are looking for requisite GPAs, test scores, rank, ECs, etc. Only when the application makes it to the regional reps are essays read. Think about it -a small public admissions office like UVA can’t possibly read 54,000 multiple essays. Time reading essays is not going to be wasted on applicants who don’t meet what the school needs a looking on other criteria.

It entirely depends on the school. At many schools, essays are a critical part of the application. Yes lower tier apps will be dropped, but of those within range, essays are absolutely considered. And they can help sway a student’s application. Many students have the same stats afterall!

? Isn't that what the PP stated.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Big 3
Average grade, averace EC
Not an athlete not a legacy
1480 SAT
ED

This proves the above PP's point - big 3 is the hook.

? Unless you can prove that students from public schools with those stats who ED don't get in, that "proves" nothing.

Obviously, they do get in but not at the same rate with same stats.

Please cite the source, thanks.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:- what were their stats
- did they apply Test Optional
- did they have a hook (athletic recruit, first gen etc)
- did they apply ED

Just trying to understand what’s really possible. Our school’s SCOIR data includes students from many years ago.

How about this, tell us your kid's stats and we will tell you if it is possible.

+1. Much faster. Give us your kid's stats as well as what state they are in and what type of school they are attending (public, independent, parochial). We will chance them.

Ok
4.0 UW / 4.7 W
1560 SAT (one time , no superscore)
5s on AP exams taken so far
12 APs , plus 2 years post BC Calc math (multi var calc and DifEq / linear Alg)
4 years varsity in one sport (but not recruited)
National qualifier in an academic Ec
Exceptional ECs in 2 areas w lots of initiative/ leadership and service

NP.. my DC had higher stats, but they were rejected at T25.

It's the essays. There are a gazillion students with great stats.

The essays are where it's at. It's the chance to shine. Some rise to the occasion. Some don't. It's the only place where you can get a an app reader to argue for you at the table. People ignore that at their peril.

Or it's just chance?

Nah. People really underestimating the power of a good essay.

Pretty sure that's how mine got into a top school. Had the grades and the test scores. But the essay was kick-ass. It was really funny and self-deprecating. It totally rocked.

Good writing generally corresponds with good thinking. It's the one spot where applicants can distinguish themselves. And don't even think about using AI or tutors. Readers can sense BS from a mile away

Essays. The dirty secret.

I think you are overestimate acting the impact of the essay, most admissions officers admit it has little impact on admissions decisions unless it is bade enough to eliminate a candidate.

+1. Most admissions officers will tell you that the essays aren’t even read until an application passes through several stages of “readers” who are looking for requisite GPAs, test scores, rank, ECs, etc. Only when the application makes it to the regional reps are essays read. Think about it -a small public admissions office like UVA can’t possibly read 54,000 multiple essays. Time reading essays is not going to be wasted on applicants who don’t meet what the school needs a looking on other criteria.

It entirely depends on the school. At many schools, essays are a critical part of the application. Yes lower tier apps will be dropped, but of those within range, essays are absolutely considered. And they can help sway a student’s application. Many students have the same stats afterall!