PP. I do wonder, though, if it is more likely in LIV for children to become (or to already be) more preoccupied with achieving and competition with peers. Ideally, AAP should provide enrichment and opportunities for academic and intellectual growth rather than nurturing an obsession with being the best, the smartest, etc. (Well, ideally for me, at least.)

It's possible that the latter is inevitable just because of the orientation of certain parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was in a gifted pull out class growing up in the Midwest during the 1990s. We would just have one day a week where we had a small group class and it wasn’t really focused on math or reading in particular, more special projects and things that we’re supposed to foster out-of-the-box learning. I think overall I benefited from being with everyone else for 90% of the week, while there were times in classes where they were group projects where other kids didn’t pull their weight or other kids goofed off, I feel like I learned so much for by observing the other kids, and trying to make sense of their behavior. This is basically the trajectory of most gifted kids, you’re a quiet observer for many many years , and it trains you to really be aware and ask questions about why people are the way they are or why society is the way it is. I think it’s weird that the AAP kids, which is not a real gifted designation anyway, are pulled up out into entirely different classes, I think there’s quite a bit of benefit to mixing for most of the week.

You are describing what Gifted and Talented (GT) education and designation looked like when it was introduced in FCPS in 1976.

My sibling was the first to participate at our neighborhood ES. Just met late in the day and or after school for enrichment classes with other “GT”classmates. Was otherwise completely under the radar and very much involved with the assigned classroom teacher and classmates.

Our parents were very concerned that DC not be considered “special” or even maligned or bullied by classmates for being in this new program. They wanted guarantees that DC wouldn’t miss out on being a regular kid.

My DH, also a FCPS graduate and 5 years younger then my sibling, begged his parents to remove him from GT by 6th grade saying he was under too much pressure!

What you are describing could just as easily be individual differences rather than generational. Your husband didn't thrive in that environment whereas you did. Also could be the different schools. These anecdotes don't amount to much more than...anecdotes.

Anonymous wrote:I was in a gifted pull out class growing up in the Midwest during the 1990s. We would just have one day a week where we had a small group class and it wasn’t really focused on math or reading in particular, more special projects and things that we’re supposed to foster out-of-the-box learning. I think overall I benefited from being with everyone else for 90% of the week, while there were times in classes where they were group projects where other kids didn’t pull their weight or other kids goofed off, I feel like I learned so much for by observing the other kids, and trying to make sense of their behavior. This is basically the trajectory of most gifted kids, you’re a quiet observer for many many years , and it trains you to really be aware and ask questions about why people are the way they are or why society is the way it is. I think it’s weird that the AAP kids, which is not a real gifted designation anyway, are pulled up out into entirely different classes, I think there’s quite a bit of benefit to mixing for most of the week.

You are describing what Gifted and Talented (GT) education and designation looked like when it was introduced in FCPS in 1976.

My sibling was the first to participate at our neighborhood ES. Just met late in the day and or after school for enrichment classes with other “GT”classmates. Was otherwise completely under the radar and very much involved with the assigned classroom teacher and classmates.

Our parents were very concerned that DC not be considered “special” or even maligned or bullied by classmates for being in this new program. They wanted guarantees that DC wouldn’t miss out on being a regular kid.

My DH, also a FCPS graduate and 5 years younger then my sibling, begged his parents to remove him from GT by 6th grade saying he was under too much pressure!

Anonymous wrote:I was in a gifted pull out class growing up in the Midwest during the 1990s. We would just have one day a week where we had a small group class and it wasn’t really focused on math or reading in particular, more special projects and things that we’re supposed to foster out-of-the-box learning. I think overall I benefited from being with everyone else for 90% of the week, while there were times in classes where they were group projects where other kids didn’t pull their weight or other kids goofed off, I feel like I learned so much for by observing the other kids, and trying to make sense of their behavior. This is basically the trajectory of most gifted kids, you’re a quiet observer for many many years , and it trains you to really be aware and ask questions about why people are the way they are or why society is the way it is. I think it’s weird that the AAP kids, which is not a real gifted designation anyway, are pulled up out into entirely different classes, I think there’s quite a bit of benefit to mixing for most of the week.

I was in a similar program growing up and know exactly what you mean. I am glad I was with kids of all abilities and personalities rather than just academic superstars. For profoundly gifted kids, maybe they need a special environment. For kids like me and most of AAP, base school should be fine unless the base school is in bad shape.

Anonymous wrote:I was in a gifted pull out class growing up in the Midwest during the 1990s. We would just have one day a week where we had a small group class and it wasn’t really focused on math or reading in particular, more special projects and things that we’re supposed to foster out-of-the-box learning. I think overall I benefited from being with everyone else for 90% of the week, while there were times in classes where they were group projects where other kids didn’t pull their weight or other kids goofed off, I feel like I learned so much for by observing the other kids, and trying to make sense of their behavior. This is basically the trajectory of most gifted kids, you’re a quiet observer for many many years , and it trains you to really be aware and ask questions about why people are the way they are or why society is the way it is. I think it’s weird that the AAP kids, which is not a real gifted designation anyway, are pulled up out into entirely different classes, I think there’s quite a bit of benefit to mixing for most of the week.

This sounds nice, but it could be that you are/were the kind of person who could thrive in a variety of environments (whereas this isn't true for everyone) and it could be that you were at a school where your regular classes were reasonably challenging.

Why would you learn more by observing others in regular classes vs advanced ones?

I was in a gifted pull out class growing up in the Midwest during the 1990s. We would just have one day a week where we had a small group class and it wasn’t really focused on math or reading in particular, more special projects and things that we’re supposed to foster out-of-the-box learning. I think overall I benefited from being with everyone else for 90% of the week, while there were times in classes where they were group projects where other kids didn’t pull their weight or other kids goofed off, I feel like I learned so much for by observing the other kids, and trying to make sense of their behavior. This is basically the trajectory of most gifted kids, you’re a quiet observer for many many years , and it trains you to really be aware and ask questions about why people are the way they are or why society is the way it is. I think it’s weird that the AAP kids, which is not a real gifted designation anyway, are pulled up out into entirely different classes, I think there’s quite a bit of benefit to mixing for most of the week.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP center for Forestville is Forest Edge.

AAP center for Spring Hill is Churchill Road.

Westbriar is itself an AAP center.

Great Falls is the only other elementary school for which Colvin Run is the AAP center option.

Centers should be a thing of the past. All kids should remain at their base schools, especially since they all seem to have LLIV at this point. It's absurd that one group of kids gets to choose which school they'd like to attend, but the other group does not.

Not for all schools but definitely Great Falls does not need to send their kids to Colvin Run. They are basically both centers in of themselves and Colvin Run ONLY pulls from Great Falls and Great Falls has it's own program so in this case it's obvious that neither of these schools need school choice for AAP.

You can get rid of separate centers that draw from multiple schools but as long as there are LLIV-only classrooms some people will continue to complain about the AAP model.

People will complain about the AAP model no matter what you do. And I say that as a mom of a Gen Ed kid. There's no way to run this kind of program that isn't going to upset someone.

I do think the AAP center model should be re-evaluated every 5-7 years. I also question whether you need the AAP kids in an entirely separate classroom from 4th-6th since most people seem to agree that AAP or Gen Ed don't dictate your child's academic success in middle school and high school.

+100
Sorting kids at such an early age is inaccurate, inappropriate, and does no one any good in the long run.

That's not what the research suggests.

Actually, it is.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/gifted-school-programs-effective/2021/08/07/893ed4e4-f532-11eb-9068-bf463c8c74de_story.html

First, thank you for linking to this article. I read it and I found the research discussed, which is a lot more nuanced than you suggest. You might want to actually read the paper that is cited in the article, and to read the WaPo article itself more carefully before citing it as evidence supporting your anti-AAP crusade.

The WaPo article is clear that when considering a variety of outcomes and groups, the evidence is mixed or inconclusive. But one thing is clear, there is some evidence of benefits to reading and math. These are not huge effect sizes, but given that it is a national sample and there are so many variables muddying things, it may not be surprising. It may be that some schools have huge impacts and others less so. There is little evidence in this research of benefits to non-academic outcomes measured (absenteeism, for example).

A key issue is that the research involves a national sample and thus averages across many different schools of differing quality.

One finding that is concerning is that black and lower-income children do not seem to realize the same benefits as other groups, and that this suggests it's less about access than resources. These children may be at schools that are less able to deliver a quality program to support their academic growth. This concerns me a lot as some on this forum have talked about FCPS transitioning to a LLIV only model, which could harm students at lower performing/lower resourced schools.

I am in education and have had URM students who work with me tell me that they benefited from AAP and being able to attend a AAP in a more resourced school. They had a choice to do so and took the opportunity and excelled. Get rid of AAP and you may actually exacerbate inequity by removing opportunities for bright URM students to get the resources they need in order to achieve.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP center for Forestville is Forest Edge.

AAP center for Spring Hill is Churchill Road.

Westbriar is itself an AAP center.

Great Falls is the only other elementary school for which Colvin Run is the AAP center option.

Centers should be a thing of the past. All kids should remain at their base schools, especially since they all seem to have LLIV at this point. It's absurd that one group of kids gets to choose which school they'd like to attend, but the other group does not.

Not for all schools but definitely Great Falls does not need to send their kids to Colvin Run. They are basically both centers in of themselves and Colvin Run ONLY pulls from Great Falls and Great Falls has it's own program so in this case it's obvious that neither of these schools need school choice for AAP.

You can get rid of separate centers that draw from multiple schools but as long as there are LLIV-only classrooms some people will continue to complain about the AAP model.

People will complain about the AAP model no matter what you do. And I say that as a mom of a Gen Ed kid. There's no way to run this kind of program that isn't going to upset someone.

I do think the AAP center model should be re-evaluated every 5-7 years. I also question whether you need the AAP kids in an entirely separate classroom from 4th-6th since most people seem to agree that AAP or Gen Ed don't dictate your child's academic success in middle school and high school.

+100
Sorting kids at such an early age is inaccurate, inappropriate, and does no one any good in the long run.

That's not what the research suggests.

And we do sort already, by age, which is not very meaningful, just convenient. Sorting by intellectual and behavioral development, broadly defined, is absolutely necessary when you have so many per class, such a wide range of skill level, and an environment that is not well suited to educating individuals at their level vs groups.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP center for Forestville is Forest Edge.

AAP center for Spring Hill is Churchill Road.

Westbriar is itself an AAP center.

Great Falls is the only other elementary school for which Colvin Run is the AAP center option.

Centers should be a thing of the past. All kids should remain at their base schools, especially since they all seem to have LLIV at this point. It's absurd that one group of kids gets to choose which school they'd like to attend, but the other group does not.

Not for all schools but definitely Great Falls does not need to send their kids to Colvin Run. They are basically both centers in of themselves and Colvin Run ONLY pulls from Great Falls and Great Falls has it's own program so in this case it's obvious that neither of these schools need school choice for AAP.

You can get rid of separate centers that draw from multiple schools but as long as there are LLIV-only classrooms some people will continue to complain about the AAP model.

People will complain about the AAP model no matter what you do. And I say that as a mom of a Gen Ed kid. There's no way to run this kind of program that isn't going to upset someone.

I do think the AAP center model should be re-evaluated every 5-7 years. I also question whether you need the AAP kids in an entirely separate classroom from 4th-6th since most people seem to agree that AAP or Gen Ed don't dictate your child's academic success in middle school and high school.

+100
Sorting kids at such an early age is inaccurate, inappropriate, and does no one any good in the long run.

That's not what the research suggests.

Actually, it is.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/education/gifted-school-programs-effective/2021/08/07/893ed4e4-f532-11eb-9068-bf463c8c74de_story.html

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP center for Forestville is Forest Edge.

AAP center for Spring Hill is Churchill Road.

Westbriar is itself an AAP center.

Great Falls is the only other elementary school for which Colvin Run is the AAP center option.

Centers should be a thing of the past. All kids should remain at their base schools, especially since they all seem to have LLIV at this point. It's absurd that one group of kids gets to choose which school they'd like to attend, but the other group does not.

Not for all schools but definitely Great Falls does not need to send their kids to Colvin Run. They are basically both centers in of themselves and Colvin Run ONLY pulls from Great Falls and Great Falls has it's own program so in this case it's obvious that neither of these schools need school choice for AAP.

You can get rid of separate centers that draw from multiple schools but as long as there are LLIV-only classrooms some people will continue to complain about the AAP model.

People will complain about the AAP model no matter what you do. And I say that as a mom of a Gen Ed kid. There's no way to run this kind of program that isn't going to upset someone.

I do think the AAP center model should be re-evaluated every 5-7 years. I also question whether you need the AAP kids in an entirely separate classroom from 4th-6th since most people seem to agree that AAP or Gen Ed don't dictate your child's academic success in middle school and high school.

+100
Sorting kids at such an early age is inaccurate, inappropriate, and does no one any good in the long run.

Arlington and other jurisdictions start in Kindergarten and first grade. FCPS is actually late to the game with pullouts for advanced learners. The AAP program at a different school than the base school is unique, but most schools in the nation have separate classes and pullouts for reading and math and even other classes as well. The Arlington school my friend has a kid at has advanced classes in 4th for every subject so it is basically AAP just at the base school.

“Advanced classes” and “APS” don’t really belong in the same sentence.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP center for Forestville is Forest Edge.

AAP center for Spring Hill is Churchill Road.

Westbriar is itself an AAP center.

Great Falls is the only other elementary school for which Colvin Run is the AAP center option.

Centers should be a thing of the past. All kids should remain at their base schools, especially since they all seem to have LLIV at this point. It's absurd that one group of kids gets to choose which school they'd like to attend, but the other group does not.

Not for all schools but definitely Great Falls does not need to send their kids to Colvin Run. They are basically both centers in of themselves and Colvin Run ONLY pulls from Great Falls and Great Falls has it's own program so in this case it's obvious that neither of these schools need school choice for AAP.

You can get rid of separate centers that draw from multiple schools but as long as there are LLIV-only classrooms some people will continue to complain about the AAP model.

People will complain about the AAP model no matter what you do. And I say that as a mom of a Gen Ed kid. There's no way to run this kind of program that isn't going to upset someone.

I do think the AAP center model should be re-evaluated every 5-7 years. I also question whether you need the AAP kids in an entirely separate classroom from 4th-6th since most people seem to agree that AAP or Gen Ed don't dictate your child's academic success in middle school and high school.

+100
Sorting kids at such an early age is inaccurate, inappropriate, and does no one any good in the long run.

Arlington and other jurisdictions start in Kindergarten and first grade. FCPS is actually late to the game with pullouts for advanced learners. The AAP program at a different school than the base school is unique, but most schools in the nation have separate classes and pullouts for reading and math and even other classes as well. The Arlington school my friend has a kid at has advanced classes in 4th for every subject so it is basically AAP just at the base school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP center for Forestville is Forest Edge.

AAP center for Spring Hill is Churchill Road.

Westbriar is itself an AAP center.

Great Falls is the only other elementary school for which Colvin Run is the AAP center option.

Centers should be a thing of the past. All kids should remain at their base schools, especially since they all seem to have LLIV at this point. It's absurd that one group of kids gets to choose which school they'd like to attend, but the other group does not.

Not for all schools but definitely Great Falls does not need to send their kids to Colvin Run. They are basically both centers in of themselves and Colvin Run ONLY pulls from Great Falls and Great Falls has it's own program so in this case it's obvious that neither of these schools need school choice for AAP.

You can get rid of separate centers that draw from multiple schools but as long as there are LLIV-only classrooms some people will continue to complain about the AAP model.

People will complain about the AAP model no matter what you do. And I say that as a mom of a Gen Ed kid. There's no way to run this kind of program that isn't going to upset someone.

I do think the AAP center model should be re-evaluated every 5-7 years. I also question whether you need the AAP kids in an entirely separate classroom from 4th-6th since most people seem to agree that AAP or Gen Ed don't dictate your child's academic success in middle school and high school.

+100
Sorting kids at such an early age is inaccurate, inappropriate, and does no one any good in the long run.

That's not what the research suggests.

Flint Hill Elementary is lovely.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP center for Forestville is Forest Edge.

AAP center for Spring Hill is Churchill Road.

Westbriar is itself an AAP center.

Great Falls is the only other elementary school for which Colvin Run is the AAP center option.

Centers should be a thing of the past. All kids should remain at their base schools, especially since they all seem to have LLIV at this point. It's absurd that one group of kids gets to choose which school they'd like to attend, but the other group does not.

Not for all schools but definitely Great Falls does not need to send their kids to Colvin Run. They are basically both centers in of themselves and Colvin Run ONLY pulls from Great Falls and Great Falls has it's own program so in this case it's obvious that neither of these schools need school choice for AAP.

You can get rid of separate centers that draw from multiple schools but as long as there are LLIV-only classrooms some people will continue to complain about the AAP model.

People will complain about the AAP model no matter what you do. And I say that as a mom of a Gen Ed kid. There's no way to run this kind of program that isn't going to upset someone.

I do think the AAP center model should be re-evaluated every 5-7 years. I also question whether you need the AAP kids in an entirely separate classroom from 4th-6th since most people seem to agree that AAP or Gen Ed don't dictate your child's academic success in middle school and high school.

+100
Sorting kids at such an early age is inaccurate, inappropriate, and does no one any good in the long run.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:AAP center for Forestville is Forest Edge.

AAP center for Spring Hill is Churchill Road.

Westbriar is itself an AAP center.

Great Falls is the only other elementary school for which Colvin Run is the AAP center option.

Centers should be a thing of the past. All kids should remain at their base schools, especially since they all seem to have LLIV at this point. It's absurd that one group of kids gets to choose which school they'd like to attend, but the other group does not.

Not for all schools but definitely Great Falls does not need to send their kids to Colvin Run. They are basically both centers in of themselves and Colvin Run ONLY pulls from Great Falls and Great Falls has it's own program so in this case it's obvious that neither of these schools need school choice for AAP.

You can get rid of separate centers that draw from multiple schools but as long as there are LLIV-only classrooms some people will continue to complain about the AAP model.

People will complain about the AAP model no matter what you do. And I say that as a mom of a Gen Ed kid. There's no way to run this kind of program that isn't going to upset someone.

I do think the AAP center model should be re-evaluated every 5-7 years. I also question whether you need the AAP kids in an entirely separate classroom from 4th-6th since most people seem to agree that AAP or Gen Ed don't dictate your child's academic success in middle school and high school.