Anonymous wrote:DD and DS have both been swimming year round since they were 6. Same club. Same coaches. Same amount of practices. Same amount of time and money spent. But DS will never be as fast as DD simply because DD inherited all the things you need to be a really fast swimmer: height, hyper mobility, an inverted triangle body shape, a gigantic arm span, gigantic feet and a super competitive personality. If parents are competitive swimmers, they likely have some or all of these attributes and would likely pass them on to their kids. They also understand the time, money, dedication (and volunteer hours!) year round swim requires and are prepared to make such sacrifices. So it’s a bit of both. Nature and nurture. However, all the nurture in the world won’t make your kid an elite swimmer if they’re not built like one.

Tomoru Honda would like a word. He had the record for the 200 fly and won a silver medal in the 200 fly last Olympics. He’s 5’8”.

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Anonymous wrote:I have 3 kids and only the youngest is a good swimmer. It's not that she started younger, although she did. She is more competitive and coordinated.

Swimmers are not coordinated that’s why they’re in the pool

Summer McIntosh and her sister both did a bunch of sports including soccer gymnastics, and equestrian before settling on one sport. Swimming for Summer and pairs skating for her older sister. Pretty sure they are coordinated.

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Anonymous wrote:What do you mean by amazing swimmers? They have all-star times?
We have a lot of "amazing" sibling swimmers but only one is usually truly amazing. The others ones are just great swimmers by summer swim measures and are just okay club swimmers and they are not getting all star times. I can think of 8-10 families like this where 3 kids swim and they all make A meets but only one is in the highest NCAP group or RMSC NTG.

A lot of families put kids in swimming together for the ease of driving to activities and as one PP said one kid may be really great at it and the others just tag along and then end up getting okay at it.

New poster: definitely not by all star standards. No dive block. Very short sprints for all events. 25 fly through 10. Some pools have “lips” on the edge giving swimmers an advantage when they start. I have one that makes all stars yearly in a stroke that is the kid’s worst stroke by far. If this was a 200 in this stroke, the kid wouldn’t look like the superstar that summer swim makes it appear.

and the 40m dash is different from a 1500m race. Different events lend themselves to different strengths

Sure - but summer swim is almost all 25/50s. After the age of 12, club swim has almost no more 50s except in free. There’s a reason we don’t have 11+ kids doing a 25 in any stroke. It becomes too easy as they get bigger. The same applies for not doing a 50 SCY in fly after 12 for most meets - too big of a kid and too easy. Of course you also have the summer bday advantage, too.

There is definitely a natural ability/talent involved in swimming. It’s definitely not just training/hours in the pool. And siblings are not always at the same level - in fact, I see the opposite more often. We’re at a large year round club and there are sooo many swimmers who work hard, swim 4-5 days per week or more, and still are not very fast. Often they will still lose to summer-only swimmers, even when they are the same size. Also, there are so many examples of sibling groups on the team who are at vastly different levels competitively. Some getting Zones cuts for their age group and others who have never even gotten an A time. One of our coaches always says “swimming is a mystery.” It’s hard to predict who will be good and why.

Also, as far as size - height, build, shoulder width, arm length etc definitely make a difference but not as much as some posters seem to think. If you’re talking about the Olympics, maybe, but that is a whole different level from D1 swimming. Sure, a 5’8 guy might not ultimately be able to keep up (except maybe in distance events), but the vast majority of male D1 swimmers are not 6’5. Look at any roster and they typically range between 5’10-6’3. Most around 6’0. The biggest ones are the sprinters. Same for the women, there is a range and most are not 5’10+ like the Olympians.

To say swimmers are not athletic is ridiculous. I have never seen kids in such great shape, and many play multiple sports well. I don’t know what makes some kids great swimmers but there have been studies to suggest natural buoyancy and kicking power play a role. It goes way beyond money and training.

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Anonymous wrote:What do you mean by amazing swimmers? They have all-star times?
We have a lot of "amazing" sibling swimmers but only one is usually truly amazing. The others ones are just great swimmers by summer swim measures and are just okay club swimmers and they are not getting all star times. I can think of 8-10 families like this where 3 kids swim and they all make A meets but only one is in the highest NCAP group or RMSC NTG.

A lot of families put kids in swimming together for the ease of driving to activities and as one PP said one kid may be really great at it and the others just tag along and then end up getting okay at it.

New poster: definitely not by all star standards. No dive block. Very short sprints for all events. 25 fly through 10. Some pools have “lips” on the edge giving swimmers an advantage when they start. I have one that makes all stars yearly in a stroke that is the kid’s worst stroke by far. If this was a 200 in this stroke, the kid wouldn’t look like the superstar that summer swim makes it appear.

and the 40m dash is different from a 1500m race. Different events lend themselves to different strengths

Anonymous wrote:What do you mean by amazing swimmers? They have all-star times?
We have a lot of "amazing" sibling swimmers but only one is usually truly amazing. The others ones are just great swimmers by summer swim measures and are just okay club swimmers and they are not getting all star times. I can think of 8-10 families like this where 3 kids swim and they all make A meets but only one is in the highest NCAP group or RMSC NTG.

A lot of families put kids in swimming together for the ease of driving to activities and as one PP said one kid may be really great at it and the others just tag along and then end up getting okay at it.

New poster: definitely not by all star standards. No dive block. Very short sprints for all events. 25 fly through 10. Some pools have “lips” on the edge giving swimmers an advantage when they start. I have one that makes all stars yearly in a stroke that is the kid’s worst stroke by far. If this was a 200 in this stroke, the kid wouldn’t look like the superstar that summer swim makes it appear.

It’s largely genetic. Some people have the hips bend in a way that makes breaststroke more efficient (faster), but overall: their bodies just know what to do for swim and they have a similar body type. Here are some examples:

Kids who don’t swim anything but summer or varsity in HS and are still incredibly fast. Typically taller, slender, narrow hips, long fingers, etc.

Kids who are on club team but swim a few of days a week and then go to a meet and equal or best kids who swim 9+ times a week.

Just because it’s largely genetic doesn’t mean that coaching does nothing. Coaching can help. Hard work can help. But kids who have a genetic leg up, are much better swimmers and I often think it’s great they found a sport that fits them so well.

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Anonymous wrote:Money and willingness to pay $$ for year round teams and private lessons. Not genetics.

Definitely not the case. We’ve got a number of year round swimmers on our summer team and they are not particularly good (some don’t even make A meets). I’m sure they are better than they would be without swimming year round, but they still are not good.

It’s mostly about general athleticism, height and body type, particularly at younger ages. As you get older, you have to also train hard.

We've got a boy at our pool who used to swim year round, but dropped it in favor of lacrosse in middle school. He's still challenging pool records five years later because he's just a freak athlete.

We’ve got 10 year old girl who only swims during the summer. She beats every other 9-10 girl on our team (including 2 club swimmers) in every stroke and usually places first at A meets.

We’ve got one of those at our pool. But it’s just that she grew early and is at least a head taller than everyone else.

That’s what people mean by genetics.

Uh, no - if this girl grew early and is a head taller, she probably just had early puberty and is done growing. All the others will catch up and then pass her. Early puberty for most athletes is advantageous for a few years then the effect is reversed, as they hit their peak at an earlier age and typically end up shorter when others grow, continue to improve, and pass them in both size and speed.

Or the kid who was a head taller in K will end up being 5'11. Either is possible

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Anonymous wrote:Money and willingness to pay $$ for year round teams and private lessons. Not genetics.

Definitely not the case. We’ve got a number of year round swimmers on our summer team and they are not particularly good (some don’t even make A meets). I’m sure they are better than they would be without swimming year round, but they still are not good.

It’s mostly about general athleticism, height and body type, particularly at younger ages. As you get older, you have to also train hard.

We've got a boy at our pool who used to swim year round, but dropped it in favor of lacrosse in middle school. He's still challenging pool records five years later because he's just a freak athlete.

We’ve got 10 year old girl who only swims during the summer. She beats every other 9-10 girl on our team (including 2 club swimmers) in every stroke and usually places first at A meets.

We’ve got one of those at our pool. But it’s just that she grew early and is at least a head taller than everyone else.

That’s what people mean by genetics.

Uh, no - if this girl grew early and is a head taller, she probably just had early puberty and is done growing. All the others will catch up and then pass her. Early puberty for most athletes is advantageous for a few years then the effect is reversed, as they hit their peak at an earlier age and typically end up shorter when others grow, continue to improve, and pass them in both size and speed.

DD and DS have both been swimming year round since they were 6. Same club. Same coaches. Same amount of practices. Same amount of time and money spent. But DS will never be as fast as DD simply because DD inherited all the things you need to be a really fast swimmer: height, hyper mobility, an inverted triangle body shape, a gigantic arm span, gigantic feet and a super competitive personality. If parents are competitive swimmers, they likely have some or all of these attributes and would likely pass them on to their kids. They also understand the time, money, dedication (and volunteer hours!) year round swim requires and are prepared to make such sacrifices. So it’s a bit of both. Nature and nurture. However, all the nurture in the world won’t make your kid an elite swimmer if they’re not built like one.

I have one who is naturally talented. And several others who are good because of early and often practice.

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Anonymous wrote:My 7 year old daughter is dominating the 8 and unders this summer and is at the top for her team and in the league in most strokes. It’s 100% because of swimming 4-5 days a week this past year. She will swim 4 days a week this next year before summer swim and I expect the same will happen next summer. It’s all about those who can pay and take them to club swimming. She does have heart and focus for it, but very little physical prowess. Club swimmers will almost always win. We have an exceptional swimmer on our summer team that is physically gifted in all sports and wins first in all his races and doesn’t do year round swim. But he is the exception for sure.

Be careful with burnout and overuse injuries with putting a 7 year old in swim 4-5x per week. I’m a former D1 swimmer and my kids and a bunch of teammates’ kids are now starting swim. Almost all of us are limiting our kids to twice per week as long as possible. We all agree it’s better for them to do multiple sports early and develop different muscle groups and overall body awareness/athleticism. A 7 year old who swims a lot will get passed by kids who started out not swimming much and ramp up later at age 9-10. That can be hard on the kid.

+1
My college roommate, also a college swimmer, feels pretty strongly about this with their 2 kids.

Pp here - my kids do year round, non competitive homeschool swim. It’s all about fitness and there’s no racing. They love it and it’s great exercise, social and zero pressure. I should have started with that. I won’t allow them to move to the competitive part because of burnout.

Kind of weird but thanks for participating

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Anonymous wrote:My 7 year old daughter is dominating the 8 and unders this summer and is at the top for her team and in the league in most strokes. It’s 100% because of swimming 4-5 days a week this past year. She will swim 4 days a week this next year before summer swim and I expect the same will happen next summer. It’s all about those who can pay and take them to club swimming. She does have heart and focus for it, but very little physical prowess. Club swimmers will almost always win. We have an exceptional swimmer on our summer team that is physically gifted in all sports and wins first in all his races and doesn’t do year round swim. But he is the exception for sure.

Be careful with burnout and overuse injuries with putting a 7 year old in swim 4-5x per week. I’m a former D1 swimmer and my kids and a bunch of teammates’ kids are now starting swim. Almost all of us are limiting our kids to twice per week as long as possible. We all agree it’s better for them to do multiple sports early and develop different muscle groups and overall body awareness/athleticism. A 7 year old who swims a lot will get passed by kids who started out not swimming much and ramp up later at age 9-10. That can be hard on the kid.

+1
My college roommate, also a college swimmer, feels pretty strongly about this with their 2 kids.

Pp here - my kids do year round, non competitive homeschool swim. It’s all about fitness and there’s no racing. They love it and it’s great exercise, social and zero pressure. I should have started with that. I won’t allow them to move to the competitive part because of burnout.

That's really sad you will not let them do a more competitive team. Most have different levels for kids and there has never been any pressure in where we swim to move up/go faster and it's only those top families/groups that are the ultra competitive. Don't hold your kids back. Most don't require meets although its recommended until the higher levels.

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Anonymous wrote:My 7 year old daughter is dominating the 8 and unders this summer and is at the top for her team and in the league in most strokes. It’s 100% because of swimming 4-5 days a week this past year. She will swim 4 days a week this next year before summer swim and I expect the same will happen next summer. It’s all about those who can pay and take them to club swimming. She does have heart and focus for it, but very little physical prowess. Club swimmers will almost always win. We have an exceptional swimmer on our summer team that is physically gifted in all sports and wins first in all his races and doesn’t do year round swim. But he is the exception for sure.

Be careful with burnout and overuse injuries with putting a 7 year old in swim 4-5x per week. I’m a former D1 swimmer and my kids and a bunch of teammates’ kids are now starting swim. Almost all of us are limiting our kids to twice per week as long as possible. We all agree it’s better for them to do multiple sports early and develop different muscle groups and overall body awareness/athleticism. A 7 year old who swims a lot will get passed by kids who started out not swimming much and ramp up later at age 9-10. That can be hard on the kid.

+1
My college roommate, also a college swimmer, feels pretty strongly about this with their 2 kids.

Pp here - my kids do year round, non competitive homeschool swim. It’s all about fitness and there’s no racing. They love it and it’s great exercise, social and zero pressure. I should have started with that. I won’t allow them to move to the competitive part because of burnout.

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Anonymous wrote:Money and willingness to pay $$ for year round teams and private lessons. Not genetics.

I agree with this, for most of these swimmers it's more about $$$ spent and length/amount of time practiced than genetics. Go to enough swim meets and you gain perspective on this.

To me genetics come into play when someone who doesn't swim much is able to keep up with more seasoned swimmers or when a swimmer is absolutely dominating the competition at every meet.

Agree. DH and his siblings are strong swimmers. They took tons of lessons when they were growing up. None of them have any other standout athletic abilities to say it’s genetic.

That’s not entirely fair either though. Most great swimmers don’t have other standout athletic abilities. I wouldn’t be surprised if Michael Phelps could barely throw a ball or would look incredibly awkward running 100m.

What? I don’t think you know much about swimming.

Caeleb dressel has a 43” vertical jump. The average nba player has a 28” vertical jump.

https://www.sportingnews.com/us/athletics/news/us-swimmer-caeleb-dressel-vertical-leap-nba/11j6llogcmqlz1ahelzfakobgp

Tim Duncan and Kris humphries are former standout swimmers who chose bball over swimming.

I think you are conflating the fact that many kids who are not considered athletic in other sports find their way to swimming. But the top swimmers are definitely athletes.

Kyle Chalmers might take up Aussie football after the next Olympics.

You’re citing one physical attribute which actually ties directly to being a great swimmer. Having a powerful jump is important for a good start. I am sure he has done a ton of work on jumping targeting those leg muscles just for that. That doesn’t mean he is going to run a 10 (or even 12) second 100m or throw a baseball 90mph.

What exactly is your point, that only baseball players and sprinters are good athletes? I’m sure Shohei Ohtani can’t swim like Michael Phelps either, but that doesn’t change the fact that he’s a phenomenal athlete.

If you bothered to read the initial point from earlier you’d see. Someone said their husband was a good swimmer but it couldn’t be genetic because they weren’t good at other points. The person saying that Michael Phelps may not be good at other sports but that doesn’t means he isn’t genetically gifted. Then someone else replied “hurr durr but Caleb Dressel has a great vertical jump”