Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have had no such problem with latinos born outside of USA.

Gender roles in Latin America are much more traditional and well defined. We are almost to the point of there not being much difference between men and women in the US. You asked for it and you got it.

No, we most certainly are not! Although I think you are being sarcastic?

Well, women in the US definitely aren't very feminine. And men tend to be wimpy/pushovers. I didn't see it that way until I lived in South America. But yeah, it's like night and day.

Have you been to Scandinavia? Did you know that many Scandinavian men take a lot of time off to be sahd? Do you think S American men would do that?

S. American men tend to be misogynistic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm a liberal, masculine white guy married to a liberal woman. Couples like us are not hard to find. I guess OP doesn't live in the DC area.

It sounds like OP doesn't even live in a small urban area.

Most of the uber masculine conservative guys I know treat women like crap, no buying meals, or opening doors or supporting them financially. They expect the women to do that for them.

Was it Proud Boys or some other white neo-conservative group that wanted their women to work to fund their organization and also raise their children to be the next generation of white nationalists? Maybe it was both.

Utlra conservative men are aholes. Ultra liberal men are on the feminine side or are gay.

Men who are moderate tend to be saner and more masculine.

Anonymous wrote:Dating and marrying a liberal man who treats you as an equal is great until you end up 38 with 2 young kids and discover you’re not really an equal after all. He expects you to raise the kids, plan everything and do just as well as he does professionally. You end up with terrible resentment and no sex drive for him.

Conservative men have their own version of this too. Where they want to be the man of the household but don’t really make enough money. I was listening to Dave Ramsey the other day and this woman called in because her husband wanted her to stay home with the kids but he only made 30k while she was 70-100k.

Anonymous wrote:
This is kind of a shrug to me. Not a useful discussion. It equates "masculinity" with specific actions that are not especially important. Who pays for the first date just isn't that big a thing. I very briefly dated a guy who paid for EVERYthing to the point it quickly felt condescending and show-offy, and he wasn't my idea of masculine at all. The most masculine man I know now is also extremely liberal politically and personally. But I don't define "masculine" in terms of "pays for things, holds the door for the woman (only?), 'providing for' the woman."

+1 those are not "masculine" traits. They are "gentlemanly" traits. A man, irrespective of his political leanings, should do that for his woman, especially when they are still dating.

Liberal men can and do open doors for women, pay for dinner. It's not about liberal or conservative.. it's about being gentlemanly.

However, the woman in the article wants her cake and eat it too....

she wants a masculine man, but doesn't want to be relegated to the sahm role. Then who is doing the childcare/housechores/cooking? Does she think "masculine" men won't mind being sahd?
she wants him to pay for everything (ie, well off) but she doesn't want to be relegated to the sahm role which means she wants to work and make her money, but still wants him to pay for everything.

That woman is not a liberal. She is just spoiled. If you want to be an independent woman then act like it.

I used to be a R (DW); DH is a liberal, but we are both moderate.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have had no such problem with latinos born outside of USA.

Gender roles in Latin America are much more traditional and well defined. We are almost to the point of there not being much difference between men and women in the US. You asked for it and you got it.

I'm white European and they probably change their ways around me. I actually think the ones with clear gender roles are long taken and/or I don't attract such men. I can't cook to save my life. I don't like to clean either.
They usually see what I do or don't do and then see where they fit in. Ofcourse I like it. I pay often; not a big deal. I also learned their language which makes dating them easier.
I have dated one white conservative, but it was a disaster in so many ways. And it wasn't even because he wanted me to cook and I couldn't. He cooked. Simply dumbest fuk I've ever met.

Oh God, can we please just write the country? It's very different if you're German or Austrian vice Spanish or Italian, as you know perfectly well if you are really European.

This (recent) habit of everyone refusing to write their country and just writing European is annoying since there is a huge variety in Europe. Indians don't seem to mind writing Indian and don't constantly write Asian.

Rant over.

Dating and marrying a liberal man who treats you as an equal is great until you end up 38 with 2 young kids and discover you’re not really an equal after all. He expects you to raise the kids, plan everything and do just as well as he does professionally. You end up with terrible resentment and no sex drive for him.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I have had no such problem with latinos born outside of USA.

Gender roles in Latin America are much more traditional and well defined. We are almost to the point of there not being much difference between men and women in the US. You asked for it and you got it.

I'm white European and they probably change their ways around me. I actually think the ones with clear gender roles are long taken and/or I don't attract such men. I can't cook to save my life. I don't like to clean either.
They usually see what I do or don't do and then see where they fit in. Ofcourse I like it. I pay often; not a big deal. I also learned their language which makes dating them easier.
I have dated one white conservative, but it was a disaster in so many ways. And it wasn't even because he wanted me to cook and I couldn't. He cooked. Simply dumbest fuk I've ever met.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The internalized misogyny in desiring “masculine” men is depressing.

What is wanting a feminine woman?

A whataboutism deflection?

It was a sad day when the midwits learned the term whataboutism to deflect having any points to their argument.

It’s the ‘20s. Get used to it. It’s generational. Even “conservative” younger millennials, and generation Z are masculine-resistant.

With older millennials and generation X, the masculinity they had is being sucked away from them. Perhaps this is a good thing if it’s specifically targeted at the toxic elements.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The internalized misogyny in desiring “masculine” men is depressing.

What is wanting a feminine woman?

A whataboutism deflection?

Anonymous wrote:Man I find this really weird. I thought she was going to talk about other qualities besides holding open the car door. It seems like she wants to be treated like a princess and yeah, what kind of man treats women like princesses? A man who thinks that women are property to be married off in order to form strategic political alliances. JK, a conservative man. This cannot be a shocker to her.

My husband is masculine in that he has a deep voice and a strong build and this really charismatic personality, and I'm a SAHM so yeah, he "cares for me and provides for me" (man that sounds gross). But he doesn't open my car door and he daydreams about the day I make it big and he quits his job.

So chivalry is dead. Your first paragraph actually echoes the OP article.

Meh, my liberal husband is pretty f-ing masculine. Probably more so than most of the conservative guys I’ve seen lately. He used to be a republican but Trump was a bridge too far.

Anonymous wrote:The internalized misogyny in desiring “masculine” men is depressing.

What is wanting a feminine woman?

Anonymous wrote:Liberals woman honestly don’t know what they want. One one hand they want a traditional guy. On the other hand they come up with things like “toxic masculinity”. Which is it?

I should probably replace the word *progressive* above because they are the ones consistently trying to define/redefine society in a never ending loop.

Men raised in progressive circles, at least the ones under 30, that come accross I would say are quite interesting def not the typical male we probably saw 15 to 20 years ago.

In my opinion though with gender equality we should not expect men to be like the men’s of the past paying for first date, opening doors that stuff is dead. In fact women are likely going to be or at least equally be the ones paying for a first date, asking a guy out, proposing for marriage etc…

+1

We've created this situation by making a big deal out of everything.

The internalized misogyny in desiring “masculine” men is depressing.