Anonymous
06/05/2023 08:09
Subject: Re:“Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Good. Kids need to learn that life has ups and downs and it's not all laid out for them like a platter of food.
Time to be humbled and take that wait staff job.
That doesn’t pay off loans.
Funny, you’d never say the same thing to an unemployed med school grad.
What med school grad is unemployed?
Those who don’t get matched into residency. Around 7% of med school graduates do not get matched. So they leave med school with $300K+ in debt and no prospects to pay it off.
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/02/19/health/medical-school-residency-doctors.html
This^ and more go through several cycles of applying while while working minimally paying non-physician jobs.
Anonymous
06/05/2023 00:27
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Waaah poor MBAs. Maybe they can go do something useful to society instead of money-grubbing profiteering.
Not with $200k in student loans.
More. HBS tuition and fees alone are $83K, and they tell students to budget another $33K for living expenses.
Plus, the foreign students need to tap private lenders or lenders in their home countries. They likely have a variable interest rate, which has probably gone up 500 basis points since they started HBS in fall of 2021.
These folks are getting crushed.
MBB pay for MBAs, although you must go back to work for them after.
MBB ain’t hiring. Read the article.
Plus, it’s harder to enter MBB with only an undergrad degree vs. getting an MBA. Getting into MBB with only a bachelor’s is the golden ticket. Folks going to HBS are there because they couldn’t get into MBB the first time around.
I meant for people who had a job at MBB pre-MBA.
That does not exist anymore.
Anonymous
06/04/2023 23:58
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
The foreign students can always move back to their home country and avoid paying back their loans. That is what my SIL did.
Anonymous
06/04/2023 22:54
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Stafford loans
Anonymous
06/04/2023 22:51
Subject: Re:“Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:The COA of HBS is so high BECAUSE students can take out as much in grad plus loans as they want up to the arbitrary limit HBS sets. HBS could say its COA is $200,000/year and the govt would say “okay” and still disburse the loans.
Obviously, there needs to be a hard cap on grad plus loans (and parent plus loans) set by the government.
This is of course after Obama forbade private loans for u grad and grad students. So in low interest rate environment 2010: Good bye 1.5% Citibank student loans, Hello 6.8% fixed govt. student loans.
I believe MBA staffers and grad plus loans are vastly paid off early, within 3-5 years on average. Not sure what lawyers or med students w loans do. But 6.8% interest rate was ridiculous the last ten years. Now things are different. Maybe Biden will increase it to 12%?
Anonymous
06/04/2023 22:48
Subject: Re:“Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Good. Kids need to learn that life has ups and downs and it's not all laid out for them like a platter of food.
Time to be humbled and take that wait staff job.
Sorry you couldn’t get in.
I got in and graduated when jobs were not good and i lived.
Yes, gen X graduated into 2000 dot com and Sept 11th recessions and came out of bschool into 2008/09 great financial crisis, and now Covid vol 2020 and banking debacle 2023, and now this current grind with growth stocks down.
Anonymous
06/04/2023 22:46
Subject: Re:“Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Good. Kids need to learn that life has ups and downs and it's not all laid out for them like a platter of food.
Time to be humbled and take that wait staff job.
Right??! It’s so rich (ha) to expect us to feel sorry that these kids training to be capitalist masters now face the downside of the free market. Like literally, zero sympathy. Particularly to the PE choads whose entire business model is to take over companies, strip the equity, and fire people. Nope, not even getting my tiny violin out for these baby vultures.
+1 hate to say it, but this is what capitalism is about. There are boom times and bust times. If you expected the party to last forever, you were ignorant.
I have been laid off twice, been through two recessions, including graduating during a recession. I told my kid to NOT go to such an expensive college such that we would have to take out huge loans. The ROI is just not there, and you never know what kind of economy you will be going into after graduation.
There had better not be another student loan forgiveness in the horizon for these graduates.
There’s PSLF for nonprofit hospital admins
please, most business grads don't major in it "to help people". And most hospital admins only care about profit even as the hospitals are nonprofit. Hospital admins don't actually care about the people it serves. They care about making sure the hospital is profitable.
btw, I was also a business major.
You missed the point.
“These people” will get student loans forgiven.
WTF are you talking about? No, they will not get their loans forgiven, especially the foreign HBS students.
The only way to get forgiven is to go into government for 10 years and do PSLF. But that seems to be a pretty bad ROI on an MBA from HBS.
It anymore!
That program went out the window last election campaign period. EVeRYBODY with govt student debt gets halted accruals and nixed balances now!
Anonymous
06/04/2023 22:44
Subject: Re:“Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Good. Kids need to learn that life has ups and downs and it's not all laid out for them like a platter of food.
Time to be humbled and take that wait staff job.
Right??! It’s so rich (ha) to expect us to feel sorry that these kids training to be capitalist masters now face the downside of the free market. Like literally, zero sympathy. Particularly to the PE choads whose entire business model is to take over companies, strip the equity, and fire people. Nope, not even getting my tiny violin out for these baby vultures.
+1 hate to say it, but this is what capitalism is about. There are boom times and bust times. If you expected the party to last forever, you were ignorant.
I have been laid off twice, been through two recessions, including graduating during a recession. I told my kid to NOT go to such an expensive college such that we would have to take out huge loans. The ROI is just not there, and you never know what kind of economy you will be going into after graduation.
There had better not be another student loan forgiveness in the horizon for these graduates.
There’s PSLF for nonprofit hospital admins
please, most business grads don't major in it "to help people". And most hospital admins only care about profit even as the hospitals are nonprofit. Hospital admins don't actually care about the people it serves. They care about making sure the hospital is profitable.
btw, I was also a business major.
You missed the point.
“These people” will get student loans forgiven.
Touche
Go Biden!
Anonymous
06/04/2023 22:44
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Waaah poor MBAs. Maybe they can go do something useful to society instead of money-grubbing profiteering.
The student loans these folks are taking out are brutal. It would keep me up at night not knowing I don’t have a job lined up. They are supposed to be celebrating at graduation and half the class is an anxious mess, especially the foreign students.
TBF, this happened to those graduating in 2008-2009 and during the Dot Com bust. But tuition is so much higher these days for an elite Ivy MBA.
And 2010! I graduated in 2010 from Dartmouth and it was a hot mess. I couldn’t get interviews for entry level jobs 30 minutes outside of Boston. Everyone was hiring grad students for those jobs.
I have a good friend who graduated with me in 2010 and is graduating with an MBA from Duke this year and I feel so bad for her. I’m having PTSD on her behalf.
Why would she go to fuqua as a Dartmouth ug alum?
It’s not worth it outside of m7
Wants to settle down in the southeast?
Take another bite at the banking apple??
Anonymous
06/04/2023 22:42
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:business degrees are worthless, chatgpt will tell the STEM major how to do business and write good
Lol
Anonymous
06/04/2023 22:41
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
They may have to get summer jobs at the Hamptons.
Anonymous
06/04/2023 22:41
Subject: Re:“Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Good. Kids need to learn that life has ups and downs and it's not all laid out for them like a platter of food.
Time to be humbled and take that wait staff job.
Right??! It’s so rich (ha) to expect us to feel sorry that these kids training to be capitalist masters now face the downside of the free market. Like literally, zero sympathy. Particularly to the PE choads whose entire business model is to take over companies, strip the equity, and fire people. Nope, not even getting my tiny violin out for these baby vultures.
If your kid took out $300k in student loans for an HBS MBA, and was promised the world in return, you’d have sympathy.
No one at a top 6 b school is taking out $300k of loans.
Non traditional students or URMs get massive aid, and the “traditional” students came from Ku strive industries during a bull market, plus they all I bc eat their income and bonuses and knew they were volatile bonuses.
It’s also common knowledge that you can take out large govt Grad Plus loans, day trade it all 4 semesters, never accrue interest or have to make a payment until a couple months after you graduate, then graduate and pay the entire principle off and keep the returns.
Anonymous
06/04/2023 22:35
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Look at this con job published by HBS. These folks got snowed.
https://www.hbs.edu/mba/financial-aid/tuition-assistance/Pages/cost-of-attendance.aspx
Seems like HBS ignores the fact that the program covers two academic years--not just one--when illustrating the COA.
That webpage’s estimates are only good for one year. Everyone knows the 2nd year will be more expensive.
MBA students have spending problems, IMHO. They love to travel, go out to fancy group dinners, rent expensive vacation homes, get bottle service, etc. I know people in the current HBS 23 class and their Instragram accounts have been crazy over-the-top luxury for the past two years.
The program brings in a lot of UHNW international students who can fund that kind of lifestyle while in grad school. But most of the class are still Americans who are probably borrowing gobs of money. One of the students I know from Europe borrowed from a bank in their home country as a variable rate, with the intention of refinancing after graduation. Oooof.
Yes! Why do they all spend like crazy. Is it a peer thing or networking?
Majority of them had jobs with large bonuses pre-mba, and rarely took long vacations whilst working. Then they can.
Many also self fund their tuition, room and board from their 3-6 years of working in a demanding industry.
Anonymous
06/04/2023 22:34
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Look at this con job published by HBS. These folks got snowed.
https://www.hbs.edu/mba/financial-aid/tuition-assistance/Pages/cost-of-attendance.aspx
Seems like HBS ignores the fact that the program covers two academic years--not just one--when illustrating the COA.
That webpage’s estimates are only good for one year. Everyone knows the 2nd year will be more expensive.
MBA students have spending problems, IMHO. They love to travel, go out to fancy group dinners, rent expensive vacation homes, get bottle service, etc. I know people in the current HBS 23 class and their Instragram accounts have been crazy over-the-top luxury for the past two years.
The program brings in a lot of UHNW international students who can fund that kind of lifestyle while in grad school. But most of the class are still Americans who are probably borrowing gobs of money. One of the students I know from Europe borrowed from a bank in their home country as a variable rate, with the intention of refinancing after graduation. Oooof.
Yes! Why do they all spend like crazy. Is it a peer thing or networking?
It’s 50/50 brilliant normal people/semi-smart wealthy people
Anonymous
06/04/2023 22:25
Subject: “Worst hiring environment for HBS students since 2009”
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-01/harvard-mba-grads-anxiously-navigate-a-tepid-job-market?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTY4NTcxMDIxNCwiZXhwIjoxNjg2MzE1MDE0LCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJSVkszNjhUMEcxS1cwMSIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJCOThERTQ5MjNGMkI0QUY0QUFENTdDMzYyRjRGMjYwMiJ9.crDFnb2SEP3EwxzYbxhqEFL-x62PyOPDJIw-8Mbj3U8" target="_new" rel="nofollow"> https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2023-06-01/harvard-mba-grads-anxiously-navigate-a-tepid-job-market?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTY4NTcxMDIxNCwiZXhwIjoxNjg2MzE1MDE0LCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJSVkszNjhUMEcxS1cwMSIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJCOThERTQ5MjNGMkI0QUY0QUFENTdDMzYyRjRGMjYwMiJ9.crDFnb2SEP3EwxzYbxhqEFL-x62PyOPDJIw-8Mbj3U8
Bloomberg
“As much as half of grads class of 2023 without jobs”
“Worst hiring environment since 2009”
If it’s like this for hbs, the entire mba market is f’ed
I went to a top 10 MBA program and my school is not having this problem. Everyone knows that HBS grads don't have any practical experience and can't do the job. That's why you rarely see them in the wild.
No, that’s not what’s going on.
HBS grads already did banking or consulting and then went to the buyside or tech.
Buyside and sr tech hires with a 1-3 month lead time, not internship programs or 12 month cycles. They may have to wait out things until their relationships lift the hiring freezes