I think there are two separate issues here. One is high school kids drinking at parties, and the other is having a problem with alcohol. I think you shouldn’t worry about what other people allow or what is reasonable to expect generally of high school kids going to parties where there is alcohol. Your daughter has expressed that she has a problem with alcohol, and it sounds like you and your husband did too (re: drinking to excess). If she goes, she’ll be tempted to drink and she’ll drink to excess, and that’s a problem. I think in this situation, you have to protect her, and you do that by either not letting her go, or letting her go under tighter controls, such as dropping her off yourself and picking her up after an hour.

Maybe for the best that she knows she has an alcohol problem now, came to you, and you can help guide her so that it doesn’t get out of control in college. Have you considered any kind of counseling for her?

Anonymous wrote:I am a father who only has sons. I would let them drink but if they ever got drunk drunk they would be in trouble. I would not let my daughter drink, if I had one. IMO there is no such thing as a safe space for a drunk girl

Hope you are teaching your sons how to be safe towards girls

Hard no. Would I be okay that it was happening, maybe. But condone it, hell no.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t really think anyone else’s teens are relevant.

YOUR teen got so worried about her frequent binge drinking that she asked for help from her parents. That’s pretty extreme. I remember getting so drunk I puked, but I would have never ever told my parents. She asked for help because she has a problem.

I think you should encourage her to consider whether or not she’s an alcoholic.

OP here. We agree that blacking out is extreme. She is being treated by a licensed therapist who specializes in substance abuse in adolescents.

What we are struggling with now (after keeping her in a protective bubble for the last few months) is how to navigate an environment where drinking in high school (at least in her fairly large peer group) seems to be prevalent. We can't keep her trapped at home for the next 2 years. It's helpful to get others perspectives.

You can, though. Your daughter has unfortunately picked the alcoholic peer group. She needs to find new friends. Most kids ARE NOT drinking. For those who are, most of them are not getting black out drunk.

Have you asked your daughter what she thinks she should do?

+1

Anonymous wrote:Hard no. Especially for a kid who said she likes drinking and has drunk to the point of alcohol-induced blackout. Have her talk to her pediatrician if you need backup.

I’m also a hard no on cannabis for teens. Both substances are horrible for adolescent brain development; there’s no “just alcohol” or “just pot” when it comes to teenagers and these substances. They may still try them, but you need to be clear as a parent that you expect them not to consume these substances. Yes, keep the lines of communication open, don’t be judgmental, etc., but FFS, do NOT supply your kids.

+1

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4991068/

https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/31185534/

https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/publications/brochures-and-fact-sheets/make-a-difference-child-alcohol

Hard no on drinking at parties, with peers, using fake IDs, etc.

When my kids are finished with HS and over 18, we will allow them a glass of wine or beer at home on occasion.

Would never ever facilitate kids friends drinking. That is extremely inappropriate (and risky!).

"It's not confusing you just didn't read the report. As accurately reported by a PP it says the following in the report if you would have read down a couple bullet points.

Binge drinking is defined as consuming five or more
alcoholic drinks in a row in the past two weeks.
Ninety-three percent of 12th graders report not binge
drinking"

You're accusing me of not having "read down a couple of bullet points" and the quote literally the exact same words I used in my post?!?! Do you not understand that if I quoted those words, I obviously read them first?

https://www.fairfaxcounty.gov/data/sites/data/files/assets/documents/youth%20survey/survey%20instrument/2022%20fairfax%20county%20survey_8_10_12_final_oct182022.pdf

This is the survey instrument that was used on the Fairfax kids. They ONLY surveyed 10th graders and 12th graders, which makes no sense. They don't tell us if the two age groups were equal in size and if they're different size groups, what is the distribution? They don't tell us at what point in the school year these sophomores and seniors were surveyed, which matters since a lot happens during senior year. They ask the drinking questions in three different ways. The "report" doesn't indicate which findings are from which question, which is a big problem.

Here are the questions:
On how many occasions (if any) have you:
* ...had beer, wine, or hard liquor in your lifetime (more than a few sips)?
* ...had beer, wine, or hard liquor during the past 30 days?
* Think back over the last two weeks. How many times have you had five or more alcoholic drinks in a row?

Now go look at the "report" and how it doesn't align with these questions.

This is a great example of how not to survey kids in these age groups about this subject. My favorite question in the survey was this one: How old were you when you first belonged to a gang? SMH.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Numerous studies have come out that the earlier a kid has his first drink, the bigger issues they will have.

https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/early-drinking-linked-higher-lifetime-alcoholism-risk

Data from a survey of 43,000 U.S. adults heighten concerns that early alcohol use, independent of other risk factors, may contribute to the risk of developing future alcohol problems. Those who began drinking in their early teens were not only at greater risk of developing alcohol dependence at some point in their lives, they were also at greater risk of developing dependence more quickly and at younger ages, and of developing chronic, relapsing dependence. Among all respondents who developed alcoholism at some point, almost half (47 percent) met the diagnostic criteria for alcohol dependence (alcoholism) by age 21.

It can affect the normal development of vital organs and functions, including the brain, liver, bones and hormones. Beginning to drink before age 14 is associated with increased health risks, including alcohol-related injuries, involvement in violence, and suicidal thoughts and attempts.

The thing is, no one actually cares. We all lose our minds over a woman drinking a glass of wine while pregnant, but teens' brains are ALSO developing and very vulnerable to the effects of alcohol. "I want my children to consume this neurotoxin in our home, where they are safe." Crazy that parents allow this.

DP - no, plenty of people care. Look at all the “hard no” people on this thread - we care! It’s the parents supplying who don’t care.

Yeah. I’m not even necessarily a “hard no” parent in general - but this is a 15 year old in treatment for substance abuse who confessed she was regularly blacking out and asked her parents for help. on what FREAKIN planet do you knowingly send her to a drinking party?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Numerous studies have come out that the earlier a kid has his first drink, the bigger issues they will have.

https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/early-drinking-linked-higher-lifetime-alcoholism-risk

Data from a survey of 43,000 U.S. adults heighten concerns that early alcohol use, independent of other risk factors, may contribute to the risk of developing future alcohol problems. Those who began drinking in their early teens were not only at greater risk of developing alcohol dependence at some point in their lives, they were also at greater risk of developing dependence more quickly and at younger ages, and of developing chronic, relapsing dependence. Among all respondents who developed alcoholism at some point, almost half (47 percent) met the diagnostic criteria for alcohol dependence (alcoholism) by age 21.

It can affect the normal development of vital organs and functions, including the brain, liver, bones and hormones. Beginning to drink before age 14 is associated with increased health risks, including alcohol-related injuries, involvement in violence, and suicidal thoughts and attempts.

The thing is, no one actually cares. We all lose our minds over a woman drinking a glass of wine while pregnant, but teens' brains are ALSO developing and very vulnerable to the effects of alcohol. "I want my children to consume this neurotoxin in our home, where they are safe." Crazy that parents allow this.

DP - no, plenty of people care. Look at all the “hard no” people on this thread - we care! It’s the parents supplying who don’t care.

Anonymous wrote:Numerous studies have come out that the earlier a kid has his first drink, the bigger issues they will have.

https://www.niaaa.nih.gov/news-events/news-releases/early-drinking-linked-higher-lifetime-alcoholism-risk

Data from a survey of 43,000 U.S. adults heighten concerns that early alcohol use, independent of other risk factors, may contribute to the risk of developing future alcohol problems. Those who began drinking in their early teens were not only at greater risk of developing alcohol dependence at some point in their lives, they were also at greater risk of developing dependence more quickly and at younger ages, and of developing chronic, relapsing dependence. Among all respondents who developed alcoholism at some point, almost half (47 percent) met the diagnostic criteria for alcohol dependence (alcoholism) by age 21.

It can affect the normal development of vital organs and functions, including the brain, liver, bones and hormones. Beginning to drink before age 14 is associated with increased health risks, including alcohol-related injuries, involvement in violence, and suicidal thoughts and attempts.

The thing is, no one actually cares. We all lose our minds over a woman drinking a glass of wine while pregnant, but teens' brains are ALSO developing and very vulnerable to the effects of alcohol. "I want my children to consume this neurotoxin in our home, where they are safe." Crazy that parents allow this.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I am a father who only has sons. I would let them drink but if they ever got drunk drunk they would be in trouble. I would not let my daughter drink, if I had one. IMO there is no such thing as a safe space for a drunk girl

You should be hard no for boys too. They can drive drunk, harm themselves and get into difficult situations

And how about the fact that it can be a drunk male who is the reason the space isn't safe for a drunk girl.

Way to have a sexist double standard, Dad.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Decide what's important to you, knowing that parties with drinks available are pretty much the norm in high school. I appreciate the "hard no" family's position, but you need to make peace with yourself that you are asking your kid to break rules/sneak around/do unsafe things so they don't get in trouble. We decided safety was most important to us. My 16yo ds is the sporty crowd and there are parties, I don't know if parents know drinks circulating or not. He has gotten the messaging (over and over again) that any mix of drinking/driving is a violation of trust so profound that his freedoms will be curtailed immediately, but that he will not get in trouble for calling us at any time for a ride home. I think a lot of parents say that, but you've gotta mean it. So if he's going out we ask where, we talk about whether he's driving and what alterative plan is if not, if there is a designated driver (in his peer group there often is).

This is our approach. Just a few weeks ago my 16 yo drove to her friends house and they had a few drinks. Her friends were encouraging her to drive home but she called us instead. My husband went to pick her up and said nothing other than “you made an excellent decision and we are proud of that.”
If a teen wants to drink, they will. I just want her to be safe if she’s doing it.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around letting my DD remain friends with those girls. Not only drinking but also encouraging drunk driving? Did you even call their parents?

Nope. Not calling the parents. They already know. My daughter is very open about it (and pretty much everything else in her life).

I told her straight up that her friends suck for encouraging her to drive home drunk. She knows this, and knows they make other bad choices as well. I’m glad she made the right one.

I do discourage her from hanging out with these girls but I will not and cannot forbid her to do so. She goes to school with them and they live in the neighborhood. I won’t do anything to push her into lying to me about anything. I’d rather her be honest with me and we can work through stuff together.

I think it's great to have an open dialogue with one's child. I also think forbidding things when evidence presents itself can be warranted. So many parents worry about pushing their kids into lying instead of whether or not they really should make some tough choices. If my daughter's friends were trying to push her into doing something both unsafe and illegal, they would all hear from me. This is bigger than a teenager can work out on their own. Parents don't want to get involved anymore at risk of being helicopters, but in the process seem forgot that there are absolutely occasions that call for your direct involvement. This would be one for me, especially since it sounds like you know them personally. Sometimes, you have to be the a&&hole.

And how f'd up is it that being a responsible parent in this circumstance could ever be construed as "being the ahole".

Anonymous wrote:I am a father who only has sons. I would let them drink but if they ever got drunk drunk they would be in trouble. I would not let my daughter drink, if I had one. IMO there is no such thing as a safe space for a drunk girl

You should be hard no for boys too. They can drive drunk, harm themselves and get into difficult situations

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Decide what's important to you, knowing that parties with drinks available are pretty much the norm in high school. I appreciate the "hard no" family's position, but you need to make peace with yourself that you are asking your kid to break rules/sneak around/do unsafe things so they don't get in trouble. We decided safety was most important to us. My 16yo ds is the sporty crowd and there are parties, I don't know if parents know drinks circulating or not. He has gotten the messaging (over and over again) that any mix of drinking/driving is a violation of trust so profound that his freedoms will be curtailed immediately, but that he will not get in trouble for calling us at any time for a ride home. I think a lot of parents say that, but you've gotta mean it. So if he's going out we ask where, we talk about whether he's driving and what alterative plan is if not, if there is a designated driver (in his peer group there often is).

This is our approach. Just a few weeks ago my 16 yo drove to her friends house and they had a few drinks. Her friends were encouraging her to drive home but she called us instead. My husband went to pick her up and said nothing other than “you made an excellent decision and we are proud of that.”
If a teen wants to drink, they will. I just want her to be safe if she’s doing it.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around letting my DD remain friends with those girls. Not only drinking but also encouraging drunk driving? Did you even call their parents?

Nope. Not calling the parents. They already know. My daughter is very open about it (and pretty much everything else in her life).

I told her straight up that her friends suck for encouraging her to drive home drunk. She knows this, and knows they make other bad choices as well. I’m glad she made the right one.

I do discourage her from hanging out with these girls but I will not and cannot forbid her to do so. She goes to school with them and they live in the neighborhood. I won’t do anything to push her into lying to me about anything. I’d rather her be honest with me and we can work through stuff together.

I think it's great to have an open dialogue with one's child. I also think forbidding things when evidence presents itself can be warranted. So many parents worry about pushing their kids into lying instead of whether or not they really should make some tough choices. If my daughter's friends were trying to push her into doing something both unsafe and illegal, they would all hear from me. This is bigger than a teenager can work out on their own. Parents don't want to get involved anymore at risk of being helicopters, but in the process seem forgot that there are absolutely occasions that call for your direct involvement. This would be one for me, especially since it sounds like you know them personally. Sometimes, you have to be the a&&hole.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Decide what's important to you, knowing that parties with drinks available are pretty much the norm in high school. I appreciate the "hard no" family's position, but you need to make peace with yourself that you are asking your kid to break rules/sneak around/do unsafe things so they don't get in trouble. We decided safety was most important to us. My 16yo ds is the sporty crowd and there are parties, I don't know if parents know drinks circulating or not. He has gotten the messaging (over and over again) that any mix of drinking/driving is a violation of trust so profound that his freedoms will be curtailed immediately, but that he will not get in trouble for calling us at any time for a ride home. I think a lot of parents say that, but you've gotta mean it. So if he's going out we ask where, we talk about whether he's driving and what alterative plan is if not, if there is a designated driver (in his peer group there often is).

This is our approach. Just a few weeks ago my 16 yo drove to her friends house and they had a few drinks. Her friends were encouraging her to drive home but she called us instead. My husband went to pick her up and said nothing other than “you made an excellent decision and we are proud of that.”
If a teen wants to drink, they will. I just want her to be safe if she’s doing it.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around letting my DD remain friends with those girls. Not only drinking but also encouraging drunk driving? Did you even call their parents?

Nope. Not calling the parents. They already know. My daughter is very open about it (and pretty much everything else in her life).

I told her straight up that her friends suck for encouraging her to drive home drunk. She knows this, and knows they make other bad choices as well. I’m glad she made the right one.

I do discourage her from hanging out with these girls but I will not and cannot forbid her to do so. She goes to school with them and they live in the neighborhood. I won’t do anything to push her into lying to me about anything. I’d rather her be honest with me and we can work through stuff together.