Anonymous wrote:Rolling Stone called Taylor Swift one of the all time great songwriters and one of the last true rock stars. I'm not a Taylor Swift stan, but she's at least as good as Springsteen.

https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-lists/taylor-swift-songs-ranked-rob-sheffield-201800/champagne-problems-2020-1245502/

Rolling Stone hasn't been relevant since sometime in the last century.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it fascinating that Swift fans on this thread have compared her to: Paul McCartney, Tom Petty, Bruce Springsteen.

But when compared to Katy Perry or Lady Gaga (actual contemporaries) they get angry at the comparison. Beyonce is invoked and immediately insulted. Other contemporary singer songwriters like St. Vincent or Lana Del Ray are ignored or considered "obscure" or "snobby".

Not one person has mentioned Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon. I think Dolly Parton was mentioned once.

Just an observation. There is some weird stuff going on with wanting Taylor to be a singular women among male "geniuses" but a refusal to place her within a pantheon of incredibly talented female performers and songwriters. It's... curious to me.

You are incorrect. Someone compared her to Dolly back on page 2, and absolutely no one said it wasn’t a fair comparison. Also happy to compare her to other women who are songwriters, including Gaga and any other women who actually write their own songs. Co-writing in a a committee of 4 or 5 people, which is what Katy Perry does, is most definitely not comparable. But it’s funny you think people are getting angry about it. So far as I can tell this but a just a discussion, and anyone reading emotion into it might be too emotionally invested themselves. As for the main question, everyone has a different definition of genius, so the whole debate is useless.

I don’t think she’s comparable to Dolly or Gaga. They have actual talent.

Of course she is. I know, only your musical taste counts. Wouldn’t it be nice if you didn’t feel the need to denigrate someone just because their music is not your cup of tea?

Of course she isn’t. You have your opinion and I have mine.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it fascinating that Swift fans on this thread have compared her to: Paul McCartney, Tom Petty, Bruce Springsteen.

But when compared to Katy Perry or Lady Gaga (actual contemporaries) they get angry at the comparison. Beyonce is invoked and immediately insulted. Other contemporary singer songwriters like St. Vincent or Lana Del Ray are ignored or considered "obscure" or "snobby".

Not one person has mentioned Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon. I think Dolly Parton was mentioned once.

Just an observation. There is some weird stuff going on with wanting Taylor to be a singular women among male "geniuses" but a refusal to place her within a pantheon of incredibly talented female performers and songwriters. It's... curious to me.

You are incorrect. Someone compared her to Dolly back on page 2, and absolutely no one said it wasn’t a fair comparison. Also happy to compare her to other women who are songwriters, including Gaga and any other women who actually write their own songs. Co-writing in a a committee of 4 or 5 people, which is what Katy Perry does, is most definitely not comparable. But it’s funny you think people are getting angry about it. So far as I can tell this but a just a discussion, and anyone reading emotion into it might be too emotionally invested themselves. As for the main question, everyone has a different definition of genius, so the whole debate is useless.

I don’t think she’s comparable to Dolly or Gaga. They have actual talent.

Of course she is. I know, only your musical taste counts. Wouldn’t it be nice if you didn’t feel the need to denigrate someone just because their music is not your cup of tea?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it fascinating that Swift fans on this thread have compared her to: Paul McCartney, Tom Petty, Bruce Springsteen.

But when compared to Katy Perry or Lady Gaga (actual contemporaries) they get angry at the comparison. Beyonce is invoked and immediately insulted. Other contemporary singer songwriters like St. Vincent or Lana Del Ray are ignored or considered "obscure" or "snobby".

Not one person has mentioned Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon. I think Dolly Parton was mentioned once.

Just an observation. There is some weird stuff going on with wanting Taylor to be a singular women among male "geniuses" but a refusal to place her within a pantheon of incredibly talented female performers and songwriters. It's... curious to me.

You are incorrect. Someone compared her to Dolly back on page 2, and absolutely no one said it wasn’t a fair comparison. Also happy to compare her to other women who are songwriters, including Gaga and any other women who actually write their own songs. Co-writing in a a committee of 4 or 5 people, which is what Katy Perry does, is most definitely not comparable. But it’s funny you think people are getting angry about it. So far as I can tell this but a just a discussion, and anyone reading emotion into it might be too emotionally invested themselves. As for the main question, everyone has a different definition of genius, so the whole debate is useless.

I don’t think she’s comparable to Dolly or Gaga. They have actual talent.

Anonymous wrote:Taylor has written the same song over and over again.

Yep.

Anonymous wrote:I am 43 and have been hearing Taylor Swift for years but mostly just the stuff you couldn’t avoid: Trouble, We Are Never Getting Back Together, Love Story. Catchy but whatever. Just started really *listening* to her music when Folklore came out, then went back and listened to the older albums in full. I’m pretty much a fan now.

What I don’t get is how ANYONE, whether you like her music or not, can say she’s been doing the same thing for 15 years. Take Picture to Burn and listen to it next to Delicate. Or take Mine and put it next to Exile or Mirrorball. They are just wildly different. The one thing you can’t accuse her of is stagnating.

All sounds similar with different packaging.

I am 43 and have been hearing Taylor Swift for years but mostly just the stuff you couldn’t avoid: Trouble, We Are Never Getting Back Together, Love Story. Catchy but whatever. Just started really *listening* to her music when Folklore came out, then went back and listened to the older albums in full. I’m pretty much a fan now.

What I don’t get is how ANYONE, whether you like her music or not, can say she’s been doing the same thing for 15 years. Take Picture to Burn and listen to it next to Delicate. Or take Mine and put it next to Exile or Mirrorball. They are just wildly different. The one thing you can’t accuse her of is stagnating.

Taylor has written the same song over and over again.

Anonymous wrote:I find it fascinating that Swift fans on this thread have compared her to: Paul McCartney, Tom Petty, Bruce Springsteen.

But when compared to Katy Perry or Lady Gaga (actual contemporaries) they get angry at the comparison. Beyonce is invoked and immediately insulted. Other contemporary singer songwriters like St. Vincent or Lana Del Ray are ignored or considered "obscure" or "snobby".

Not one person has mentioned Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon. I think Dolly Parton was mentioned once.

Just an observation. There is some weird stuff going on with wanting Taylor to be a singular women among male "geniuses" but a refusal to place her within a pantheon of incredibly talented female performers and songwriters. It's... curious to me.

You are incorrect. Someone compared her to Dolly back on page 2, and absolutely no one said it wasn’t a fair comparison. Also happy to compare her to other women who are songwriters, including Gaga and any other women who actually write their own songs. Co-writing in a a committee of 4 or 5 people, which is what Katy Perry does, is most definitely not comparable. But it’s funny you think people are getting angry about it. So far as I can tell this but a just a discussion, and anyone reading emotion into it might be too emotionally invested themselves. As for the main question, everyone has a different definition of genius, so the whole debate is useless.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it fascinating that Swift fans on this thread have compared her to: Paul McCartney, Tom Petty, Bruce Springsteen.

But when compared to Katy Perry or Lady Gaga (actual contemporaries) they get angry at the comparison. Beyonce is invoked and immediately insulted. Other contemporary singer songwriters like St. Vincent or Lana Del Ray are ignored or considered "obscure" or "snobby".

Not one person has mentioned Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon. I think Dolly Parton was mentioned once.

Just an observation. There is some weird stuff going on with wanting Taylor to be a singular women among male "geniuses" but a refusal to place her within a pantheon of incredibly talented female performers and songwriters. It's... curious to me.

Katy Perry isn't all that. Gaga is a genius, but more in the Madonna way. Joni Mitchell is a MUCH better singer, in addition to being a songwriting genius, but not as prolific. Carly Simon - not sure. Dolly is good but not as crossover-y.

How's that? She has an OK voice like the men mentioned. The other ounger women haven't been as prolific.

Taylor's "prolific" quality is a huge reason she gets labeled by some as overrated. Many of her songs are mediocre to bad. Yes, she's also written some real bangers. But simply saying "she has recorded a lot of songs" as evidence of her genius is weird. I think she tends to crank out albums with a ton of filler and that one of the reason many other artists have not recorded as much is because they have higher standards for their released work. That's why a lot of artists record songs that don't make it onto records, and it's why many artists can take more than a few months to make an album.

I think Taylor sometimes has too low of standards for her work, especially at this stage in her career where she does not financially NEED to be releasing a new album every year or two. Like the fact that she released not one but two albums during the pandemic is a red flag. One was good and one was... less so. Why does she do that? At this stage, she should feel comfortable shelving music that is not up to a higher standard, and she should also trust that her fans will hang on even if she isn't either promoting an album or touring. When you include her rereleases/Taylor's Version stuff, she is continually churning out music. That is a count against her artistry, not in favor, in my opinion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I find it fascinating that Swift fans on this thread have compared her to: Paul McCartney, Tom Petty, Bruce Springsteen.

But when compared to Katy Perry or Lady Gaga (actual contemporaries) they get angry at the comparison. Beyonce is invoked and immediately insulted. Other contemporary singer songwriters like St. Vincent or Lana Del Ray are ignored or considered "obscure" or "snobby".

Not one person has mentioned Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon. I think Dolly Parton was mentioned once.

Just an observation. There is some weird stuff going on with wanting Taylor to be a singular women among male "geniuses" but a refusal to place her within a pantheon of incredibly talented female performers and songwriters. It's... curious to me.

Katy Perry isn't all that. Gaga is a genius, but more in the Madonna way. Joni Mitchell is a MUCH better singer, in addition to being a songwriting genius, but not as prolific. Carly Simon - not sure. Dolly is good but not as crossover-y.

How's that? She has an OK voice like the men mentioned. The other ounger women haven't been as prolific.

Gaga was hugely popular like Madonna, though Madonna was bigger in her heyday than Gaga was in hers. Both took risks. Both worked very hard. Both had a unique brand. Both tried their hand at acting. But Gaga has the edge of musical talent in both voice and songwriting. Madonna has longevity and a more singular identity.

Anonymous wrote:I find it fascinating that Swift fans on this thread have compared her to: Paul McCartney, Tom Petty, Bruce Springsteen.

But when compared to Katy Perry or Lady Gaga (actual contemporaries) they get angry at the comparison. Beyonce is invoked and immediately insulted. Other contemporary singer songwriters like St. Vincent or Lana Del Ray are ignored or considered "obscure" or "snobby".

Not one person has mentioned Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon. I think Dolly Parton was mentioned once.

Just an observation. There is some weird stuff going on with wanting Taylor to be a singular women among male "geniuses" but a refusal to place her within a pantheon of incredibly talented female performers and songwriters. It's... curious to me.

Katy Perry isn't all that. Gaga is a genius, but more in the Madonna way. Joni Mitchell is a MUCH better singer, in addition to being a songwriting genius, but not as prolific. Carly Simon - not sure. Dolly is good but not as crossover-y.

How's that? She has an OK voice like the men mentioned. The other ounger women haven't been as prolific.

I find it fascinating that Swift fans on this thread have compared her to: Paul McCartney, Tom Petty, Bruce Springsteen.

But when compared to Katy Perry or Lady Gaga (actual contemporaries) they get angry at the comparison. Beyonce is invoked and immediately insulted. Other contemporary singer songwriters like St. Vincent or Lana Del Ray are ignored or considered "obscure" or "snobby".

Not one person has mentioned Joni Mitchell, Carly Simon. I think Dolly Parton was mentioned once.

Just an observation. There is some weird stuff going on with wanting Taylor to be a singular women among male "geniuses" but a refusal to place her within a pantheon of incredibly talented female performers and songwriters. It's... curious to me.

Taylor Swift is fine.
She's good even.

But she's not a better musician or songwriter than most successful singers and musicians and songwriters are. You have to be pretty good to get to that level.

Her skill in marketing (or hiring people to market for her) is exceptional.

Taylor Swift seems more like an elected official of young blonde haired Southern women who want to take revenge on anyone who mistreats them. LoL. She seems like a way to stick it to the popularity of people like Beyonce.

I don't think Taylor Swift can really compare to a singer like Lady Gaga. Why? Lady Gaga takes risks that Taylor Swift doesn't take.