Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe men do a ton, an equal share let’s say, but are simply less vocal about their contributions and, especially, their complaints. Women, biologically, are programmed to be more emotional. They’re more chatty. They initiate 70% of divorces and 90% if they’re college educated. They’re more flighty, and variant in temperament, and neurotic in general as has been reported by top scientists. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/

So a woman might complain a lot about feeling the emotional burden of parenthood, and a career, but perhaps that’s just her subjective, emotion-based, rather than a fact-based, objective assessment of her situation, we’re outside observers able to quantify her particular case.

your "study" was self-reported.

Sorry you’re not happy with the results. There are a lot of other studies that show women always score higher than men in levels of neuroticism. That definitely correlates to a perception of disparate levels of domestic contributions between married men and women.

its not the results I'm unhappy with, its the research. You talk about fact-based objective assessments but your study is self-reported the opposite of objective and emotion-based.

and lets also separate unprompted and prompted in the domestic contributions meaning what a man/woman does without having to be told to do it or reminded by the other person.

I think it’s more that women’s levels of neuroticism lead them to take on a lot of additional worrying, work, or generally kid related things, that are unnecessary. Men may not see the utility in that type of behavior, to undertake things that aren’t worth their or their kids time, and therefore are usually not prone to even initiating them. Basically women get all spun up, or hoisted by their own petard, in terms of planning, activities, etc. So of course they feel the emotional load. Because of a proclivity for neuroticism, they engage in neurotic busy work. Then they complain about it, as their personality, biologically, is also prone to conversation and emoting.

Give examples of unnecessary. Please. Because

-signing up for camps when daycare is closed
-forms for camp
-signing up for teacher appreciation week at daycare
-enrolling in K including all of the forms and records
- laundry
- vacuuming
-clean toilets and tubs
- grocery shopping and cooking varied meals
- regular car repairs and maintenance
-budgeting and paying bills
- 1 extracurricular per season
- finding good sales on shoes and clothes because we don't get hand-me-downs and i try to stick to 600 per year for clothes and shoes for a growing kid
- home maintenance (ex. hot water heater draining, cleaning gutters, ensuring that the downspout extenders are put back on after the lawn gets mowed)
but yes its because women are neurotic with all their unnecessary planning and activities

I’m the husband and I do 80% of this list.

OP is probably a Christian.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe men do a ton, an equal share let’s say, but are simply less vocal about their contributions and, especially, their complaints. Women, biologically, are programmed to be more emotional. They’re more chatty. They initiate 70% of divorces and 90% if they’re college educated. They’re more flighty, and variant in temperament, and neurotic in general as has been reported by top scientists. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/

So a woman might complain a lot about feeling the emotional burden of parenthood, and a career, but perhaps that’s just her subjective, emotion-based, rather than a fact-based, objective assessment of her situation, we’re outside observers able to quantify her particular case.

your "study" was self-reported.

Sorry you’re not happy with the results. There are a lot of other studies that show women always score higher than men in levels of neuroticism. That definitely correlates to a perception of disparate levels of domestic contributions between married men and women.

its not the results I'm unhappy with, its the research. You talk about fact-based objective assessments but your study is self-reported the opposite of objective and emotion-based.

and lets also separate unprompted and prompted in the domestic contributions meaning what a man/woman does without having to be told to do it or reminded by the other person.

I think it’s more that women’s levels of neuroticism lead them to take on a lot of additional worrying, work, or generally kid related things, that are unnecessary. Men may not see the utility in that type of behavior, to undertake things that aren’t worth their or their kids time, and therefore are usually not prone to even initiating them. Basically women get all spun up, or hoisted by their own petard, in terms of planning, activities, etc. So of course they feel the emotional load. Because of a proclivity for neuroticism, they engage in neurotic busy work. Then they complain about it, as their personality, biologically, is also prone to conversation and emoting.

My husband said to me, word for word, "what's the point in cleaning because it's just going to get messy again." And we're not taking about dusting the baseboard here. There's such a thing as too much, sure, but I don't know any women with full time jobs and young kids who are doing "too much."

Ha! This is true.
There is some kind of electrical problem with the lights in our laundry room. I’m dealing with it by putting a lamp with an extension cord in there. We make $500k a year, but I just don’t have the capacity to deal with calling an electrician right now.

Omg I love this. It basically describes like half our house at this point. Some kind of weird fix like a nighlight plugged into the pantry. Same HHI as well and just can't find the time (and the electricians are all to busy too!) We have a million tasks on the to-do list and no bandwidth (unless it's for ordering stuff from Amazon on my phone as a stopgap!)

Really? Can’t find the time or don’t have the capacity?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe men do a ton, an equal share let’s say, but are simply less vocal about their contributions and, especially, their complaints. Women, biologically, are programmed to be more emotional. They’re more chatty. They initiate 70% of divorces and 90% if they’re college educated. They’re more flighty, and variant in temperament, and neurotic in general as has been reported by top scientists. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/

So a woman might complain a lot about feeling the emotional burden of parenthood, and a career, but perhaps that’s just her subjective, emotion-based, rather than a fact-based, objective assessment of her situation, we’re outside observers able to quantify her particular case.

your "study" was self-reported.

Sorry you’re not happy with the results. There are a lot of other studies that show women always score higher than men in levels of neuroticism. That definitely correlates to a perception of disparate levels of domestic contributions between married men and women.

its not the results I'm unhappy with, its the research. You talk about fact-based objective assessments but your study is self-reported the opposite of objective and emotion-based.

and lets also separate unprompted and prompted in the domestic contributions meaning what a man/woman does without having to be told to do it or reminded by the other person.

I think it’s more that women’s levels of neuroticism lead them to take on a lot of additional worrying, work, or generally kid related things, that are unnecessary. Men may not see the utility in that type of behavior, to undertake things that aren’t worth their or their kids time, and therefore are usually not prone to even initiating them. Basically women get all spun up, or hoisted by their own petard, in terms of planning, activities, etc. So of course they feel the emotional load. Because of a proclivity for neuroticism, they engage in neurotic busy work. Then they complain about it, as their personality, biologically, is also prone to conversation and emoting.

My husband said to me, word for word, "what's the point in cleaning because it's just going to get messy again." And we're not taking about dusting the baseboard here. There's such a thing as too much, sure, but I don't know any women with full time jobs and young kids who are doing "too much."

Ha! This is true.
There is some kind of electrical problem with the lights in our laundry room. I’m dealing with it by putting a lamp with an extension cord in there. We make $500k a year, but I just don’t have the capacity to deal with calling an electrician right now.

You are literally speaking my language. We have the exact same issue in our laundry room - and then the same thing happened in my toddler's closet where there are no plugs - so we have $11 battery powered motion light sticks from amazon that barely work right now in both places. I have no time to find an electrician, let alone a competent one, and we have a 7 figure HHI. It is not easy to outsource.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think millennial men are doing a lot better than their fathers.
I was born in 1986 and my dad never so much as prepared mac and cheese for us. Not once did he do the bedtime routine or look at our homework or drive us to an extracurricular.
What's new is to have both parents with intense careers. In the past a male doctor might marry a female nurse who continued working but had some flexibility. Now doctors always marry doctors.
I am in a non-intense career and so is my husband. On paper it looks like we have things split 50-50 but he seems to have a lot more time than I do for watching Youtube and such. But to be fair plenty of my "work" is things like planning playdates and arranging for kid parties which isn't exactly work, but takes a lot of time and energy. If I dropped dead tomorrow my kids would probably never have another playdate or birthday party.

Nobody cares if millennial men are doing way more than their fathers and getting much less respect for what they're doing. Not a metric anyone other than men care about. Jut call them lazy failures and feel righteous about what shitty men they are.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe men do a ton, an equal share let’s say, but are simply less vocal about their contributions and, especially, their complaints. Women, biologically, are programmed to be more emotional. They’re more chatty. They initiate 70% of divorces and 90% if they’re college educated. They’re more flighty, and variant in temperament, and neurotic in general as has been reported by top scientists. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/

So a woman might complain a lot about feeling the emotional burden of parenthood, and a career, but perhaps that’s just her subjective, emotion-based, rather than a fact-based, objective assessment of her situation, we’re outside observers able to quantify her particular case.

your "study" was self-reported.

Sorry you’re not happy with the results. There are a lot of other studies that show women always score higher than men in levels of neuroticism. That definitely correlates to a perception of disparate levels of domestic contributions between married men and women.

its not the results I'm unhappy with, its the research. You talk about fact-based objective assessments but your study is self-reported the opposite of objective and emotion-based.

and lets also separate unprompted and prompted in the domestic contributions meaning what a man/woman does without having to be told to do it or reminded by the other person.

I think it’s more that women’s levels of neuroticism lead them to take on a lot of additional worrying, work, or generally kid related things, that are unnecessary. Men may not see the utility in that type of behavior, to undertake things that aren’t worth their or their kids time, and therefore are usually not prone to even initiating them. Basically women get all spun up, or hoisted by their own petard, in terms of planning, activities, etc. So of course they feel the emotional load. Because of a proclivity for neuroticism, they engage in neurotic busy work. Then they complain about it, as their personality, biologically, is also prone to conversation and emoting.

My husband said to me, word for word, "what's the point in cleaning because it's just going to get messy again." And we're not taking about dusting the baseboard here. There's such a thing as too much, sure, but I don't know any women with full time jobs and young kids who are doing "too much."

Ha! This is true.
There is some kind of electrical problem with the lights in our laundry room. I’m dealing with it by putting a lamp with an extension cord in there. We make $500k a year, but I just don’t have the capacity to deal with calling an electrician right now.

Omg I love this. It basically describes like half our house at this point. Some kind of weird fix like a nighlight plugged into the pantry. Same HHI as well and just can't find the time (and the electricians are all to busy too!) We have a million tasks on the to-do list and no bandwidth (unless it's for ordering stuff from Amazon on my phone as a stopgap!)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe men do a ton, an equal share let’s say, but are simply less vocal about their contributions and, especially, their complaints. Women, biologically, are programmed to be more emotional. They’re more chatty. They initiate 70% of divorces and 90% if they’re college educated. They’re more flighty, and variant in temperament, and neurotic in general as has been reported by top scientists. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/

So a woman might complain a lot about feeling the emotional burden of parenthood, and a career, but perhaps that’s just her subjective, emotion-based, rather than a fact-based, objective assessment of her situation, we’re outside observers able to quantify her particular case.

your "study" was self-reported.

Sorry you’re not happy with the results. There are a lot of other studies that show women always score higher than men in levels of neuroticism. That definitely correlates to a perception of disparate levels of domestic contributions between married men and women.

its not the results I'm unhappy with, its the research. You talk about fact-based objective assessments but your study is self-reported the opposite of objective and emotion-based.

and lets also separate unprompted and prompted in the domestic contributions meaning what a man/woman does without having to be told to do it or reminded by the other person.

I think it’s more that women’s levels of neuroticism lead them to take on a lot of additional worrying, work, or generally kid related things, that are unnecessary. Men may not see the utility in that type of behavior, to undertake things that aren’t worth their or their kids time, and therefore are usually not prone to even initiating them. Basically women get all spun up, or hoisted by their own petard, in terms of planning, activities, etc. So of course they feel the emotional load. Because of a proclivity for neuroticism, they engage in neurotic busy work. Then they complain about it, as their personality, biologically, is also prone to conversation and emoting.

My husband said to me, word for word, "what's the point in cleaning because it's just going to get messy again." And we're not taking about dusting the baseboard here. There's such a thing as too much, sure, but I don't know any women with full time jobs and young kids who are doing "too much."

Ha! This is true.
There is some kind of electrical problem with the lights in our laundry room. I’m dealing with it by putting a lamp with an extension cord in there. We make $500k a year, but I just don’t have the capacity to deal with calling an electrician right now.

Anonymous wrote:It's that they were young and naive when they said those things. They didn't understand how tiring and complicated it is when you have kids and both parents have real careers. They didn't understand anything at all about the parenting grind. They're more tired now than they were in their twenties. And some of them were saying those things and truly aspired to do it, but simply do not have the executive functioning ability.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe men do a ton, an equal share let’s say, but are simply less vocal about their contributions and, especially, their complaints. Women, biologically, are programmed to be more emotional. They’re more chatty. They initiate 70% of divorces and 90% if they’re college educated. They’re more flighty, and variant in temperament, and neurotic in general as has been reported by top scientists. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/

So a woman might complain a lot about feeling the emotional burden of parenthood, and a career, but perhaps that’s just her subjective, emotion-based, rather than a fact-based, objective assessment of her situation, we’re outside observers able to quantify her particular case.

your "study" was self-reported.

Sorry you’re not happy with the results. There are a lot of other studies that show women always score higher than men in levels of neuroticism. That definitely correlates to a perception of disparate levels of domestic contributions between married men and women.

its not the results I'm unhappy with, its the research. You talk about fact-based objective assessments but your study is self-reported the opposite of objective and emotion-based.

and lets also separate unprompted and prompted in the domestic contributions meaning what a man/woman does without having to be told to do it or reminded by the other person.

I think it’s more that women’s levels of neuroticism lead them to take on a lot of additional worrying, work, or generally kid related things, that are unnecessary. Men may not see the utility in that type of behavior, to undertake things that aren’t worth their or their kids time, and therefore are usually not prone to even initiating them. Basically women get all spun up, or hoisted by their own petard, in terms of planning, activities, etc. So of course they feel the emotional load. Because of a proclivity for neuroticism, they engage in neurotic busy work. Then they complain about it, as their personality, biologically, is also prone to conversation and emoting.

Give examples of unnecessary. Please. Because

-signing up for camps when daycare is closed
-forms for camp
-signing up for teacher appreciation week at daycare
-enrolling in K including all of the forms and records
- laundry
- vacuuming
-clean toilets and tubs
- grocery shopping and cooking varied meals
- regular car repairs and maintenance
-budgeting and paying bills
- 1 extracurricular per season
- finding good sales on shoes and clothes because we don't get hand-me-downs and i try to stick to 600 per year for clothes and shoes for a growing kid
- home maintenance (ex. hot water heater draining, cleaning gutters, ensuring that the downspout extenders are put back on after the lawn gets mowed)
but yes its because women are neurotic with all their unnecessary planning and activities

Anonymous wrote:Millennial men are weak…

Anonymous wrote:I think millennial men are doing a lot better than their fathers.
I was born in 1986 and my dad never so much as prepared mac and cheese for us. Not once did he do the bedtime routine or look at our homework or drive us to an extracurricular.
What's new is to have both parents with intense careers. In the past a male doctor might marry a female nurse who continued working but had some flexibility. Now doctors always marry doctors.
I am in a non-intense career and so is my husband. On paper it looks like we have things split 50-50 but he seems to have a lot more time than I do for watching Youtube and such. But to be fair plenty of my "work" is things like planning playdates and arranging for kid parties which isn't exactly work, but takes a lot of time and energy. If I dropped dead tomorrow my kids would probably never have another playdate or birthday party.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I knew my husband would not be equal but I didn’t expect him to be as bad as he is. He really thinks he does a lot too. I love him and he’s important, but I would have less labor if he didn’t live here. I fantasize about a 50/50 custody schedule even though I don’t actually want that at all. I thought he would step up overtime but he’s just lazy and selfish. That’s the truth.

This is so real.

And yes to the part about having more work if I was a single parent. I'm not saying I want to be a single parent -- I love my DH and get emotional value out of our relationship, plus I do think it's better for kids to be in a home with both parents. But my DH is soooooooo lazy. And he would admit it. It's not just about parenting, though yes he's a lazy parent. He won't schedule a doctor's or dentist appointment FOR HIMSELF. He doesn't like ironing, so he just wear wrinkled clothes, and when something absolutely hast to be ironed, he will put it off until the absolute last minute (and sometimes I offer to do it just so it can be done and we can pack a bag or leave the house or whatever).

I don't just do more childcare and housework. I take care of the car, I do maintenance on the house and yard, I plan our vacations, I research and execute all major appliance, furniture, or car purchases, when we move I do all the real estate stuff plus 90% of the packing and executing the move. I make sure we get kid and family photos and make sure they get sent to grandparents. I select gifts for his parents and brother when he puts it off and puts it off. I wrap all gifts. He also offloads most of his wardrobe maintenance to me by simply never buying clothes to replace his clothes once they are falling apart, and then when it's his birthday or Father's Day or Christmas, he just says "I don't know, I need new pants but I'm not sure what." So I wind up buying most of his clothes, figuring out what is in fashion, what goes with what he has, shopping sales, etc. I do our taxes and manage our retirement accounts. AND I do most of the childcare and the housekeeping (I do basically all the cleaning except he occasionally cleans the kitchen, and I'm primary parent for everything from school to drop off/pick up to arranging childcare to bedtimes and meals and hygiene, etc. -- there is no child-related thing that he takes the lead on).

He does none of this for me. He's never booked a vacation for me, he can't even make a reservation for my birthday -- I do it myself because I've learned that otherwise it won't happen. He doesn't buy my clothes or get the oil changed in my car or make sure the yard is taken care of or replace lightbulbs. If I ask him to do these things (and I MUST ask, he will never do them voluntarily), he will put it off indefinitely or complain he doesn't know how or say "you've always done it before, it's easier if you do it this time."

Stuff he does do, he wants like a freaking Purple Heart for it. If I ever complain about any of the above, he'll point out that he goes to the grocery store more, does about half the cooking, and does the laundry about 30% of the time. He also checks our credit card statement each month to make sure there is nothing unauthorized and makes sure that we have the right amount of money in the checking account to pay off the balance. He also occasionally makes me a cup of tea in the morning without me asking for it. I am grateful for all of these things. But it's not half, it's not even close to half. He's just a very lazy person and I pick up all his slack because we're married and have a kid together and him putting crap off or avoiding it just winds ups screwing me over in some other way later.

And people will refer to my DH as "one of the good ones" because they see him hanging out with our kid and being a good dad, he'll mention cleaning or laundry, he seems engaged with our lives. Bu the doesn't actually do this stuff. He's just kind of vaguely taking credit for the enormous amount of stuff I do that makes our lives function, and peopel don't press him on it because why would they, so from the outside our marriage looks egalitarian, but I honestly think my DH does less than my dad did if you add it all up, because my dad was the clear breadwinner (my mom worked but as a nurse and made very little money back then) and he also did all the yard work and anything related to the car. Whereas DH and I both work and make similar amounts and I handle the stuff my dad used to handle plus everything my mom did, too.

I’m male and this sounds like learned helpfulness. Off your list
* car maintenance
* house maintenance
* vacation planning
* major appliance and furniture
* taxes and retirement

Need to be moved to him entirely.

DP DW here. This looks like a traditional model.

DH and I, it looks like we have a pretty traditional setup too. I ask my grown up kids - are we a stable, loving, functional family? Do I have power in the relationship? They agree to all of this. But, they themselves remain very conflicted in what they need from their partner.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Maybe men do a ton, an equal share let’s say, but are simply less vocal about their contributions and, especially, their complaints. Women, biologically, are programmed to be more emotional. They’re more chatty. They initiate 70% of divorces and 90% if they’re college educated. They’re more flighty, and variant in temperament, and neurotic in general as has been reported by top scientists. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3149680/

So a woman might complain a lot about feeling the emotional burden of parenthood, and a career, but perhaps that’s just her subjective, emotion-based, rather than a fact-based, objective assessment of her situation, we’re outside observers able to quantify her particular case.

your "study" was self-reported.

Sorry you’re not happy with the results. There are a lot of other studies that show women always score higher than men in levels of neuroticism. That definitely correlates to a perception of disparate levels of domestic contributions between married men and women.

its not the results I'm unhappy with, its the research. You talk about fact-based objective assessments but your study is self-reported the opposite of objective and emotion-based.

and lets also separate unprompted and prompted in the domestic contributions meaning what a man/woman does without having to be told to do it or reminded by the other person.

I think it’s more that women’s levels of neuroticism lead them to take on a lot of additional worrying, work, or generally kid related things, that are unnecessary. Men may not see the utility in that type of behavior, to undertake things that aren’t worth their or their kids time, and therefore are usually not prone to even initiating them. Basically women get all spun up, or hoisted by their own petard, in terms of planning, activities, etc. So of course they feel the emotional load. Because of a proclivity for neuroticism, they engage in neurotic busy work. Then they complain about it, as their personality, biologically, is also prone to conversation and emoting.

My husband said to me, word for word, "what's the point in cleaning because it's just going to get messy again." And we're not taking about dusting the baseboard here. There's such a thing as too much, sure, but I don't know any women with full time jobs and young kids who are doing "too much."

Ha! This is true.
There is some kind of electrical problem with the lights in our laundry room. I’m dealing with it by putting a lamp with an extension cord in there. We make $500k a year, but I just don’t have the capacity to deal with calling an electrician right now.