Anonymous
Post 04/15/2023 09:22     Subject: If you left Big Law…
Going from partner of counsel is a terrible idea unless the person is nearing retirement.

OP, I think you just don't want to work? You could be a public school kindergarten teacher and bring in a good salary with benefits. Your husband would indeed need to step up and do more childcare and housework.

Alternatively, he goes to government and you guys significantly belt tighten. My husband makes 120k, our mortgage is 3k, and we dont live off savings. We budget and live within his salary in the DC area.

You should not live off savings unless he is one hundred percent certain he will go back into big law. And why would he? Why would he be willing to do biglaw in a few years if not now?
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2023 08:58     Subject: If you left Big Law…
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. Did not expect a four page thread on this but I should have known better

So to answer some questions, first off DH hasn’t been making 7 figures as partner for five years, just for the last one. He was 500K, then 650, 800, etc. He worked his way up.

Yes, our savings are our retirement as well, hence why I’m anxious.

For the PP who asked why he’s miserable- I think most people who have been in big law or know someone married to Big law know the answer, but it’s relentless. You’re either crazy busy and stressed or not busy and stressed because you’re worrying about billable hours. You’re at the mercy of the clients anytime day or night. But most of all it’s cutthroat and money and clients are power and DH just doesn’t like to operate that way.

And yes, he’s had a government job before. This is his second firm, and he did five years in govt between them. He loved every second and was so happy, but we then had a third child and our oldest was starting school and we needed to leave DC for better schools and a bigger house so he took one for the team.

And I have never said I’m not open to going back to work once my youngest is in school full day. But as I said I’m a teacher and even if I go back, while it would help, I’m not going to be bringing in anything significant.

Our spending is primarily mortgage, household bills, and food. He’s often not home for dinner and I have three young kids so we eat out or order in more than we would if he switched jobs. His law school loans are paid off, and we have no other debt. I think like a lot of people out discretionary spending is Amazon purchases and target runs and yes it all adds up. We would 100% be willing to rein that in. My concern stems just from the basics- food, mortgage, bills, etc. Our older two kids do a lot of sports (not summer camps because I’m
Home with them and they don’t need to) but we aren’t willing to budge in spending for their activities. We are also committed to 100% financing their undergraduate educations. Neither DH nor I had any undergraduate student loans and we feel very strongly about starting off kids off without debt. If they decide to go to med school or law school or what have you, if we are able to help we will but no guarantees in that front.


I am the poster who asked why your husband is miserable.

I know many biglaw partners who are quite happy and have been for decades.

OP: Maybe it is because this is a DC based website, but the responses are unusual in my experience for one in your situation. I wonder how many posters are actually in biglaw based on the responses.

Your husband wants to quit after his most financially successful year. Of course, there is stress for one with a family of 5 to support and for one generating over a million dollars in annual income. In my opinion, he should tough it out for a few more years to see how he adjusts. If unwilling to do so, then there are more options than just government work. However, SEC attorneys can make about $250,000 while other US government attorneys at the GS-15 level are earning in the $160s to low $180s.

Anyone in biglaw should be aware of at least two other options--going in-house or making an "Of Counsel" agreement instead of being a partner.


I have worked in big law. You haven't. And it's bizarre that you, who only 'knows' people who work in big law, claim to know better.

You also don't know the legal market all that well. Depending on speciality, in house can mean just as long of hours as big law, but at far less pay.

A young partner going to 'of counsel' will not be well received.


You don't know much.

Of counsel arrangements can--and are--tailor made based on individual needs & circumstances. If OP's husband is an expert in a particular area, he can negotiate an of counsel agreement with his current firm or with another firm. Whether or not his desire will be well received is largely dependent upon his specialty & the current market for that special knowledge.

LOL at your generalization of in-house counsel. I doubt that you have much experience. Clearly, you know little about in-house compensation arrangements and hours and lifestyle and clearly you are unfamiliar with the flexibility and use of of counsel arrangements.

Your angry tone and silly accusations do nothing to enhance your craving for credibility and superiority. The fact that you have posted without discussing the options of going in-house or of counsel speaks volumes.

If I may make a suggestion based on the tone & content of your posts in this thread, please see a proctologist ASAP.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2023 08:56     Subject: If you left Big Law…
Why are people using the term alpha?
It brings to mind some down on his luck blowhard wasting his time at the gym and in get rich quick schemes that don't pan out
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2023 08:48     Subject: If you left Big Law…
Anonymous wrote:1. Make sure you stick to public school! This is true even if he stays in biglaw since he doesn't sound that happy there. If he doesnt switch from biglaw, you could maybe do private high school. But dont waste money on some k thru 8 private.

2. Some govt attorney positions are still a lot of work and can be stressful. Like some litigation positions at DOJ etc.

3. If he is making less, he should be prepared to do more childcare and housework. I would not be cool with a dynamic where I did all of the childcare and housework management because my husband made seven figures and then he stepped down to 160k and still did very little work.

4. I don't see why you can't go be a preschool teacher once the kids are all in kindergarten and older. If they get sick, you take some sick leave and your DH takes some sick leave or works from home. Many government positions are still at least hybrid. I think you should bring up that you would want a shift in this dynamic if he made less. THat you would try to work at least in the mornings and that he would need to be prepared to be on hand if anything came up with the kids. Maybe that will make staying in biglaw more appealing to him.

5. He worked all those years to make partner, he finally made it, and now he is going to bow out right when he has reached his top earning potential?? That makes no sense to me. I would think he would want to stick it out for a year or two at least and make some money. I wonder if he is having trouble getting clients and isn't telling you?

6. Sounds like he needs a vacation. He sounds burned out. Maybe if he was able to take a vacation that would help.


FYI - I am an attorney, have always done government or nonprofit myself, but have dated biglaw attorneys and have many friends in biglaw.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2023 08:47     Subject: If you left Big Law…
1. Make sure you stick to public school! This is true even if he stays in biglaw since he doesn't sound that happy there. If he doesnt switch from biglaw, you could maybe do private high school. But dont waste money on some k thru 8 private.

2. Some govt attorney positions are still a lot of work and can be stressful. Like some litigation positions at DOJ etc.

3. If he is making less, he should be prepared to do more childcare and housework. I would not be cool with a dynamic where I did all of the childcare and housework management because my husband made seven figures and then he stepped down to 160k and still did very little work.

4. I don't see why you can't go be a preschool teacher once the kids are all in kindergarten and older. If they get sick, you take some sick leave and your DH takes some sick leave or works from home. Many government positions are still at least hybrid. I think you should bring up that you would want a shift in this dynamic if he made less. THat you would try to work at least in the mornings and that he would need to be prepared to be on hand if anything came up with the kids. Maybe that will make staying in biglaw more appealing to him.

5. He worked all those years to make partner, he finally made it, and now he is going to bow out right when he has reached his top earning potential?? That makes no sense to me. I would think he would want to stick it out for a year or two at least and make some money. I wonder if he is having trouble getting clients and isn't telling you?

6. Sounds like he needs a vacation. He sounds burned out. Maybe if he was able to take a vacation that would help.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2023 08:41     Subject: If you left Big Law…
He could go in-house in the private sector and have much much better W/L balance without taking quite as much of a pay cut as going to a govt job.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2023 08:15     Subject: If you left Big Law…
I think OP shouldn’t dismiss a teacher’s salary. They make a good salary here given all the breaks they have. Also I am confused why a SAHM eats out with her kids all the time? And I am a former big law associate turned SAHM of 3 (with no regrets!).
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2023 08:02     Subject: If you left Big Law…
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Oof. I’m the spouse of your DH had he married an equal from an educational perspective. My DH won’t quit because he suspects he would be a miserable and hard working alpha anywhere and he might as well make money.

But I bring in enough to support him quitting tomorrow. And if I decided to SAHM, I could probably re-enter at minimum six figures.

I feel really sorry for him. You seem nice and well intentioned but not like a partner.


You might be better than OP in terms of " educational " attainment, but you are definitely emotionally stunted.

Everyone has something to work on.

OP can get more education and financial literacy faster than you can shed your miserable inflation of self worth.



I don't agree. Bluntly OP seems to have a very narrow view of her career and earnings possibilities. There is no reference to what she might be able to bring to the table.with time
She clearly views herself as having snagged a high earning biglaw DH and is now grappling with the golden goose taking a step down.


I’m the one who wrote I felt bad for him. Clearly the PP has no idea the pressure a big law partner faces. There’s a reason I’ve never met one who had a preschool teacher as a first wife. You’re not anxiety-equals and you can only spend money, not make it. A SAHM former preschool teacher is not likely to be very smart.
habit.

He chose this woman. They are equals for that reason. You are not very bright yourself if you feel sorry for him because this is the woman that he chose. And he definitely prefers being married to.her than to you. Or he would have chosen the likes of you.

You don't necessarily have to be very smart to be a big law partner. You have to be hardworking and willing to work millions of hours a day and take abuse from clients and senior partners while you smile and promise them heaven and earth. So no , big law partners are not necessarily bright either. Most bright people would find work life balance.

I have a relative who made 250k as a PHD in biomedical engineering and now makes 3 million a year in sales. He travels everywhere with his family and us at everysoccer game. That's how a typical bright person makes big bucks, not slaving away in a law firm.

And I hope you did not send your kids to preschool. Because it will be very foolish of you to let your kids early interaction be shaped by not so smart people.

And don't tell me I don't understand. I do have a law degree from a "smart" sschool and have worked at a law firm. It's not that serious.


It's not about OP being a preschool teacher or SAHM. She seems very rigid on her potential career possibilities. Contrast this to the many chains about teachers who want to make a career change and use their skills for something else or SAHMs asking what jobs they could pivot to in reentering the workforce.

This particular OP is coming off as someone whose only goal is spending her DH $ and making sure there is enough of it coming in.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2023 07:17     Subject: Re:If you left Big Law…
OP,

You have gotten great tips from many posters. Ignore posters calling you names: they are miserable people jealous that you found a man as "good" as theirs without killing yourself.

Another reason why your DH wants out of this rat race is because toxic and unbearable people like them exists in these spaces

Imagine what he is going through if he has only 2 colleagues as inflated as the "not equals" pp. It's a tough place to work. Imagine working long hours with these people. That's what your DH has to deal with in big law.

So here is some motivation: Do what you need to do to get your family away from these types!
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2023 07:08     Subject: If you left Big Law…
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Oof. I’m the spouse of your DH had he married an equal from an educational perspective. My DH won’t quit because he suspects he would be a miserable and hard working alpha anywhere and he might as well make money.

But I bring in enough to support him quitting tomorrow. And if I decided to SAHM, I could probably re-enter at minimum six figures.

I feel really sorry for him. You seem nice and well intentioned but not like a partner.


You might be better than OP in terms of " educational " attainment, but you are definitely emotionally stunted.

Everyone has something to work on.

OP can get more education and financial literacy faster than you can shed your miserable inflation of self worth.



I don't agree. Bluntly OP seems to have a very narrow view of her career and earnings possibilities. There is no reference to what she might be able to bring to the table.with time
She clearly views herself as having snagged a high earning biglaw DH and is now grappling with the golden goose taking a step down.


I’m the one who wrote I felt bad for him. Clearly the PP has no idea the pressure a big law partner faces. There’s a reason I’ve never met one who had a preschool teacher as a first wife. You’re not anxiety-equals and you can only spend money, not make it. A SAHM former preschool teacher is not likely to be very smart.
habit.

He chose this woman. They are equals for that reason. You are not very bright yourself if you feel sorry for him because this is the woman that he chose. And he definitely prefers being married to.her than to you. Or he would have chosen the likes of you.

You don't necessarily have to be very smart to be a big law partner. You have to be hardworking and willing to work millions of hours a day and take abuse from clients and senior partners while you smile and promise them heaven and earth. So no , big law partners are not necessarily bright either. Most bright people would find work life balance.

I have a relative who made 250k as a PHD in biomedical engineering and now makes 3 million a year in sales. He travels everywhere with his family and us at everysoccer game. That's how a typical bright person makes big bucks, not slaving away in a law firm.

And I hope you did not send your kids to preschool. Because it will be very foolish of you to let your kids early interaction be shaped by not so smart people.

And don't tell me I don't understand. I do have a law degree from a "smart" sschool and have worked at a law firm. It's not that serious.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2023 06:54     Subject: If you left Big Law…
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If you really are low spenders, then you should be fine if he gets a Gov job. But I'm questioning whether you really are low spenders. $2M in savings for someone earning 7 figures for 5 years, plus probably high six figures before that, seems kind of low. Seems like maybe you are spending more than you think. I think you need to realistically track spending for a while and see what you are truly spending.


+1 this seems shockingly low for that salary range.


Depends how old they are...? But we have $2 mil in retirement and we are mid-40s, only $250k HHI.

Probably possible to down size to a GS-15 and teacher salary level. Many people in this area do just fine on that.

Life is too short to be miserable!
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2023 06:24     Subject: If you left Big Law…
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Oof. I’m the spouse of your DH had he married an equal from an educational perspective. My DH won’t quit because he suspects he would be a miserable and hard working alpha anywhere and he might as well make money.

But I bring in enough to support him quitting tomorrow. And if I decided to SAHM, I could probably re-enter at minimum six figures.

I feel really sorry for him. You seem nice and well intentioned but not like a partner.


You might be better than OP in terms of " educational " attainment, but you are definitely emotionally stunted.

Everyone has something to work on.

OP can get more education and financial literacy faster than you can shed your miserable inflation of self worth.



I don't agree. Bluntly OP seems to have a very narrow view of her career and earnings possibilities. There is no reference to what she might be able to bring to the table.with time
She clearly views herself as having snagged a high earning biglaw DH and is now grappling with the golden goose taking a step down.


I’m the one who wrote I felt bad for him. Clearly the PP has no idea the pressure a big law partner faces. There’s a reason I’ve never met one who had a preschool teacher as a first wife. You’re not anxiety-equals and you can only spend money, not make it. A SAHM former preschool teacher is not likely to be very smart.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2023 04:44     Subject: Re:If you left Big Law…
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP, can you put more cash into the house to lower your mortgage? I find that I am personally more comfortable if I have more room in my monthly cash flow, so perhaps you are the same. If you can come close to paying off the house, then I think it would be pretty comfortable with the kids in public school. Another option is to see if your husband can work for a financial regulator where the salary will be substantially higher.

I did this when I left BigLaw, but I don't think it makes any sense when OP likely has a low interest mortgage from before. Keep the low interest mortgage and pay it as slowly as possible.


There is something called re-amortization, which allows you to pay a lump sum towards your loan and the bank will adjust your monthly payment down but it will not affect the terms of your loan. No need to refinance.

Yes, I know. But you can make more interest by putting the money in a high interest savings accounts or CD and keeping the current monthly payment.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2023 02:24     Subject: If you left Big Law…
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Oof. I’m the spouse of your DH had he married an equal from an educational perspective. My DH won’t quit because he suspects he would be a miserable and hard working alpha anywhere and he might as well make money.

But I bring in enough to support him quitting tomorrow. And if I decided to SAHM, I could probably re-enter at minimum six figures.

I feel really sorry for him. You seem nice and well intentioned but not like a partner.


You might be better than OP in terms of " educational " attainment, but you are definitely emotionally stunted.

Everyone has something to work on.

OP can get more education and financial literacy faster than you can shed your miserable inflation of self worth.



I don't agree. Bluntly OP seems to have a very narrow view of her career and earnings possibilities. There is no reference to what she might be able to bring to the table.with time
She clearly views herself as having snagged a high earning biglaw DH and is now grappling with the golden goose taking a step down.
Anonymous
Post 04/15/2023 00:24     Subject: If you left Big Law…
Anonymous wrote:Oof. I’m the spouse of your DH had he married an equal from an educational perspective. My DH won’t quit because he suspects he would be a miserable and hard working alpha anywhere and he might as well make money.

But I bring in enough to support him quitting tomorrow. And if I decided to SAHM, I could probably re-enter at minimum six figures.

I feel really sorry for him. You seem nice and well intentioned but not like a partner.


You might be better than OP in terms of " educational " attainment, but you are definitely emotionally stunted.

Everyone has something to work on.

OP can get more education and financial literacy faster than you can shed your miserable inflation of self worth.