Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in AACPS. Literally every concern/issue/complaint in this thread about why it "can't" happen in MoCo was raised in AACPS as well.

The busses did, indeed, end up being a bit of a fiasco this year, but it sounds like that's been an across-the-board issue with the lack of bus drivers, just slightly exacerbated by the new start times.

The rest of the issue work themselves out.
Sure, some families relied on the high school kids to pick up the elementary school kids, and so now they need after care. But you also had a bunch of families who no longer need morning care, because their high school kid can get the elem kid to school, or the parents can now take them on their way to work. And of course After care for elem kids shifted their times.

Extra curriculars shifted their times - some are now before school and some are just a little later.

It's too soon to see if it makes any direct difference in student achievement, but after a TON of hand wringing over the last year and a half, people have now basically adjusted and everything is fine - and the teenagers are getting more sleep.

Why would people think teenagers need more sleep than ES kids?

The science is clear that the natural circadian rhythm for teens is later than for ES kids or adults.

Here's just one:

"Early start time was associated with significant sleep deprivation and daytime sleepiness. The occurrence of REM sleep on MSLT indicates that clinicians should exercise caution in interpreting MSLT REM sleep in adolescents evaluated on their “usual” schedules. Psychosocial influences and changes in bioregulatory systems controlling sleep may limit teenagers' capacities to make adequate adjustments to an early school schedule."
https://academic.oup.com/sleep/article/21/8/871/2726004

But HS need 8-9 hours

A kindergarten kid needs 11 hours

And kindergarteners have no problem going to bed at 8pm. No teenager is going to be able to do that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in AACPS. Literally every concern/issue/complaint in this thread about why it "can't" happen in MoCo was raised in AACPS as well.

The busses did, indeed, end up being a bit of a fiasco this year, but it sounds like that's been an across-the-board issue with the lack of bus drivers, just slightly exacerbated by the new start times.

The rest of the issue work themselves out.
Sure, some families relied on the high school kids to pick up the elementary school kids, and so now they need after care. But you also had a bunch of families who no longer need morning care, because their high school kid can get the elem kid to school, or the parents can now take them on their way to work. And of course After care for elem kids shifted their times.

Extra curriculars shifted their times - some are now before school and some are just a little later.

It's too soon to see if it makes any direct difference in student achievement, but after a TON of hand wringing over the last year and a half, people have now basically adjusted and everything is fine - and the teenagers are getting more sleep.

Why would people think teenagers need more sleep than ES kids?

The science is clear that the natural circadian rhythm for teens is later than for ES kids or adults.

Here's just one:

"Early start time was associated with significant sleep deprivation and daytime sleepiness. The occurrence of REM sleep on MSLT indicates that clinicians should exercise caution in interpreting MSLT REM sleep in adolescents evaluated on their “usual” schedules. Psychosocial influences and changes in bioregulatory systems controlling sleep may limit teenagers' capacities to make adequate adjustments to an early school schedule."
https://academic.oup.com/sleep/article/21/8/871/2726004

But HS need 8-9 hours

A kindergarten kid needs 11 hours

And kindergarteners have no problem going to bed at 8pm. No teenager is going to be able to do that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in AACPS. Literally every concern/issue/complaint in this thread about why it "can't" happen in MoCo was raised in AACPS as well.

The busses did, indeed, end up being a bit of a fiasco this year, but it sounds like that's been an across-the-board issue with the lack of bus drivers, just slightly exacerbated by the new start times.

The rest of the issue work themselves out.
Sure, some families relied on the high school kids to pick up the elementary school kids, and so now they need after care. But you also had a bunch of families who no longer need morning care, because their high school kid can get the elem kid to school, or the parents can now take them on their way to work. And of course After care for elem kids shifted their times.

Extra curriculars shifted their times - some are now before school and some are just a little later.

It's too soon to see if it makes any direct difference in student achievement, but after a TON of hand wringing over the last year and a half, people have now basically adjusted and everything is fine - and the teenagers are getting more sleep.

Hey Monifa, did you move to Montgomery county yet?

Why would people think teenagers need more sleep than ES kids?

The science is clear that the natural circadian rhythm for teens is later than for ES kids or adults.

Here's just one:

"Early start time was associated with significant sleep deprivation and daytime sleepiness. The occurrence of REM sleep on MSLT indicates that clinicians should exercise caution in interpreting MSLT REM sleep in adolescents evaluated on their “usual” schedules. Psychosocial influences and changes in bioregulatory systems controlling sleep may limit teenagers' capacities to make adequate adjustments to an early school schedule."
https://academic.oup.com/sleep/article/21/8/871/2726004

But HS need 8-9 hours

A kindergarten kid needs 11 hours

And kindergarteners have no problem going to bed at 8pm. No teenager is going to be able to do that.

Oh sweetie, you aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, are you?

Hey Monifa, did you move to Montgomery county yet?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in AACPS. Literally every concern/issue/complaint in this thread about why it "can't" happen in MoCo was raised in AACPS as well.

The busses did, indeed, end up being a bit of a fiasco this year, but it sounds like that's been an across-the-board issue with the lack of bus drivers, just slightly exacerbated by the new start times.

The rest of the issue work themselves out.
Sure, some families relied on the high school kids to pick up the elementary school kids, and so now they need after care. But you also had a bunch of families who no longer need morning care, because their high school kid can get the elem kid to school, or the parents can now take them on their way to work. And of course After care for elem kids shifted their times.

Extra curriculars shifted their times - some are now before school and some are just a little later.

It's too soon to see if it makes any direct difference in student achievement, but after a TON of hand wringing over the last year and a half, people have now basically adjusted and everything is fine - and the teenagers are getting more sleep.

Hey Monifa, did you move to Montgomery county yet?

Why would people think teenagers need more sleep than ES kids?

The science is clear that the natural circadian rhythm for teens is later than for ES kids or adults.

Here's just one:

"Early start time was associated with significant sleep deprivation and daytime sleepiness. The occurrence of REM sleep on MSLT indicates that clinicians should exercise caution in interpreting MSLT REM sleep in adolescents evaluated on their “usual” schedules. Psychosocial influences and changes in bioregulatory systems controlling sleep may limit teenagers' capacities to make adequate adjustments to an early school schedule."
https://academic.oup.com/sleep/article/21/8/871/2726004

But HS need 8-9 hours

A kindergarten kid needs 11 hours

And kindergarteners have no problem going to bed at 8pm. No teenager is going to be able to do that.

Oh sweetie, you aren't the sharpest tool in the shed, are you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in AACPS. Literally every concern/issue/complaint in this thread about why it "can't" happen in MoCo was raised in AACPS as well.

The busses did, indeed, end up being a bit of a fiasco this year, but it sounds like that's been an across-the-board issue with the lack of bus drivers, just slightly exacerbated by the new start times.

The rest of the issue work themselves out.
Sure, some families relied on the high school kids to pick up the elementary school kids, and so now they need after care. But you also had a bunch of families who no longer need morning care, because their high school kid can get the elem kid to school, or the parents can now take them on their way to work. And of course After care for elem kids shifted their times.

Extra curriculars shifted their times - some are now before school and some are just a little later.

It's too soon to see if it makes any direct difference in student achievement, but after a TON of hand wringing over the last year and a half, people have now basically adjusted and everything is fine - and the teenagers are getting more sleep.

Why would people think teenagers need more sleep than ES kids?

The science is clear that the natural circadian rhythm for teens is later than for ES kids or adults.

Here's just one:

"Early start time was associated with significant sleep deprivation and daytime sleepiness. The occurrence of REM sleep on MSLT indicates that clinicians should exercise caution in interpreting MSLT REM sleep in adolescents evaluated on their “usual” schedules. Psychosocial influences and changes in bioregulatory systems controlling sleep may limit teenagers' capacities to make adequate adjustments to an early school schedule."
https://academic.oup.com/sleep/article/21/8/871/2726004

But HS need 8-9 hours

A kindergarten kid needs 11 hours

And kindergarteners have no problem going to bed at 8pm. No teenager is going to be able to do that.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:8 and 8:30 am. I know MCPS delayed to 7:45 several years ago. But is that enough?

They already went over this and the problem is that changing high school times would negatively impact elementary and middle school times

Blah blah blah.I spent years and years waiting for elementary school to start at 9:25. My kids would get up at 6:30 and there almost 3 hours til school started. Send those kids to school earlier!

Seriously. Loudoun County does this (Elementary @ 7:50, Middle @ 8:50, HS @ 9:30). We love it.

For the life of me, I don't understand why there isn't more discussion about or opposition to late elementary school start times. Maybe some kids sleep later, but I'm with the PP who had my kids up before 7:00 a.m. every day even though school started at 9:25 a.m. It's not like kids can go to the park or run around in the morning without needing a shower, so these start times force sedentary activities before school and leave little time after school for family or play.

This! My MS and HS kids have no problem getting out the door for the bus. The ES years with a 925 start time were hell for kids and especially for working parents.

Anyway, just accept this whole mess is one of the many negative consequences of having such a geographically huge school district. It's never going to change.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in AACPS. Literally every concern/issue/complaint in this thread about why it "can't" happen in MoCo was raised in AACPS as well.

The busses did, indeed, end up being a bit of a fiasco this year, but it sounds like that's been an across-the-board issue with the lack of bus drivers, just slightly exacerbated by the new start times.

The rest of the issue work themselves out.
Sure, some families relied on the high school kids to pick up the elementary school kids, and so now they need after care. But you also had a bunch of families who no longer need morning care, because their high school kid can get the elem kid to school, or the parents can now take them on their way to work. And of course After care for elem kids shifted their times.

Extra curriculars shifted their times - some are now before school and some are just a little later.

It's too soon to see if it makes any direct difference in student achievement, but after a TON of hand wringing over the last year and a half, people have now basically adjusted and everything is fine - and the teenagers are getting more sleep.

Why would people think teenagers need more sleep than ES kids?

The science is clear that the natural circadian rhythm for teens is later than for ES kids or adults.

Here's just one:

"Early start time was associated with significant sleep deprivation and daytime sleepiness. The occurrence of REM sleep on MSLT indicates that clinicians should exercise caution in interpreting MSLT REM sleep in adolescents evaluated on their “usual” schedules. Psychosocial influences and changes in bioregulatory systems controlling sleep may limit teenagers' capacities to make adequate adjustments to an early school schedule."
https://academic.oup.com/sleep/article/21/8/871/2726004

But HS need 8-9 hours

A kindergarten kid needs 11 hours

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in AACPS. Literally every concern/issue/complaint in this thread about why it "can't" happen in MoCo was raised in AACPS as well.

The busses did, indeed, end up being a bit of a fiasco this year, but it sounds like that's been an across-the-board issue with the lack of bus drivers, just slightly exacerbated by the new start times.

The rest of the issue work themselves out.
Sure, some families relied on the high school kids to pick up the elementary school kids, and so now they need after care. But you also had a bunch of families who no longer need morning care, because their high school kid can get the elem kid to school, or the parents can now take them on their way to work. And of course After care for elem kids shifted their times.

Extra curriculars shifted their times - some are now before school and some are just a little later.

It's too soon to see if it makes any direct difference in student achievement, but after a TON of hand wringing over the last year and a half, people have now basically adjusted and everything is fine - and the teenagers are getting more sleep.

Why would people think teenagers need more sleep than ES kids?

The science is clear that the natural circadian rhythm for teens is later than for ES kids or adults.

Here's just one:

"Early start time was associated with significant sleep deprivation and daytime sleepiness. The occurrence of REM sleep on MSLT indicates that clinicians should exercise caution in interpreting MSLT REM sleep in adolescents evaluated on their “usual” schedules. Psychosocial influences and changes in bioregulatory systems controlling sleep may limit teenagers' capacities to make adequate adjustments to an early school schedule."
https://academic.oup.com/sleep/article/21/8/871/2726004

But HS need 8-9 hours

A kindergarten kid needs 11 hours

Then try going to bed earlier.

If the ES kids need to catch 7 am bus, then to get 11 hours sleep they need to go to bed at 7 pm. How is that possible? Get your HS kid sleep earlier!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:8 and 8:30 am. I know MCPS delayed to 7:45 several years ago. But is that enough?

They already went over this and the problem is that changing high school times would negatively impact elementary and middle school times

Blah blah blah.I spent years and years waiting for elementary school to start at 9:25. My kids would get up at 6:30 and there almost 3 hours til school started. Send those kids to school earlier!

Seriously. Loudoun County does this (Elementary @ 7:50, Middle @ 8:50, HS @ 9:30). We love it.

For the life of me, I don't understand why there isn't more discussion about or opposition to late elementary school start times. Maybe some kids sleep later, but I'm with the PP who had my kids up before 7:00 a.m. every day even though school started at 9:25 a.m. It's not like kids can go to the park or run around in the morning without needing a shower, so these start times force sedentary activities before school and leave little time after school for family or play.

This! My MS and HS kids have no problem getting out the door for the bus. The ES years with a 925 start time were hell for kids and especially for working parents.

Anyway, just accept this whole mess is one of the many negative consequences of having such a geographically huge school district. It's never going to change.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in AACPS. Literally every concern/issue/complaint in this thread about why it "can't" happen in MoCo was raised in AACPS as well.

The busses did, indeed, end up being a bit of a fiasco this year, but it sounds like that's been an across-the-board issue with the lack of bus drivers, just slightly exacerbated by the new start times.

The rest of the issue work themselves out.
Sure, some families relied on the high school kids to pick up the elementary school kids, and so now they need after care. But you also had a bunch of families who no longer need morning care, because their high school kid can get the elem kid to school, or the parents can now take them on their way to work. And of course After care for elem kids shifted their times.

Extra curriculars shifted their times - some are now before school and some are just a little later.

It's too soon to see if it makes any direct difference in student achievement, but after a TON of hand wringing over the last year and a half, people have now basically adjusted and everything is fine - and the teenagers are getting more sleep.

Why would people think teenagers need more sleep than ES kids?

The science is clear that the natural circadian rhythm for teens is later than for ES kids or adults.

Here's just one:

"Early start time was associated with significant sleep deprivation and daytime sleepiness. The occurrence of REM sleep on MSLT indicates that clinicians should exercise caution in interpreting MSLT REM sleep in adolescents evaluated on their “usual” schedules. Psychosocial influences and changes in bioregulatory systems controlling sleep may limit teenagers' capacities to make adequate adjustments to an early school schedule."
https://academic.oup.com/sleep/article/21/8/871/2726004

But HS need 8-9 hours

A kindergarten kid needs 11 hours

Then try going to bed earlier.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in AACPS. Literally every concern/issue/complaint in this thread about why it "can't" happen in MoCo was raised in AACPS as well.

The busses did, indeed, end up being a bit of a fiasco this year, but it sounds like that's been an across-the-board issue with the lack of bus drivers, just slightly exacerbated by the new start times.

The rest of the issue work themselves out.
Sure, some families relied on the high school kids to pick up the elementary school kids, and so now they need after care. But you also had a bunch of families who no longer need morning care, because their high school kid can get the elem kid to school, or the parents can now take them on their way to work. And of course After care for elem kids shifted their times.

Extra curriculars shifted their times - some are now before school and some are just a little later.

It's too soon to see if it makes any direct difference in student achievement, but after a TON of hand wringing over the last year and a half, people have now basically adjusted and everything is fine - and the teenagers are getting more sleep.

Why would people think teenagers need more sleep than ES kids?

The science is clear that the natural circadian rhythm for teens is later than for ES kids or adults.

Here's just one:

"Early start time was associated with significant sleep deprivation and daytime sleepiness. The occurrence of REM sleep on MSLT indicates that clinicians should exercise caution in interpreting MSLT REM sleep in adolescents evaluated on their “usual” schedules. Psychosocial influences and changes in bioregulatory systems controlling sleep may limit teenagers' capacities to make adequate adjustments to an early school schedule."
https://academic.oup.com/sleep/article/21/8/871/2726004

I think my ears kid has circadian rhythms too, which makes things really difficult in that. Whatever choice is made, someone else gets the short end of the stick.

The best hack is to just set your clock forward 2 hours. It helps realign their circadian rhythms. The science behind this is foolproof honest.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:8 and 8:30 am. I know MCPS delayed to 7:45 several years ago. But is that enough?

They already went over this and the problem is that changing high school times would negatively impact elementary and middle school times

Blah blah blah.I spent years and years waiting for elementary school to start at 9:25. My kids would get up at 6:30 and there almost 3 hours til school started. Send those kids to school earlier!

Seriously. Loudoun County does this (Elementary @ 7:50, Middle @ 8:50, HS @ 9:30). We love it.

For the life of me, I don't understand why there isn't more discussion about or opposition to late elementary school start times. Maybe some kids sleep later, but I'm with the PP who had my kids up before 7:00 a.m. every day even though school started at 9:25 a.m. It's not like kids can go to the park or run around in the morning without needing a shower, so these start times force sedentary activities before school and leave little time after school for family or play.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in AACPS. Literally every concern/issue/complaint in this thread about why it "can't" happen in MoCo was raised in AACPS as well.

The busses did, indeed, end up being a bit of a fiasco this year, but it sounds like that's been an across-the-board issue with the lack of bus drivers, just slightly exacerbated by the new start times.

The rest of the issue work themselves out.
Sure, some families relied on the high school kids to pick up the elementary school kids, and so now they need after care. But you also had a bunch of families who no longer need morning care, because their high school kid can get the elem kid to school, or the parents can now take them on their way to work. And of course After care for elem kids shifted their times.

Extra curriculars shifted their times - some are now before school and some are just a little later.

It's too soon to see if it makes any direct difference in student achievement, but after a TON of hand wringing over the last year and a half, people have now basically adjusted and everything is fine - and the teenagers are getting more sleep.

Why would people think teenagers need more sleep than ES kids?

The science is clear that the natural circadian rhythm for teens is later than for ES kids or adults.

Here's just one:

"Early start time was associated with significant sleep deprivation and daytime sleepiness. The occurrence of REM sleep on MSLT indicates that clinicians should exercise caution in interpreting MSLT REM sleep in adolescents evaluated on their “usual” schedules. Psychosocial influences and changes in bioregulatory systems controlling sleep may limit teenagers' capacities to make adequate adjustments to an early school schedule."
https://academic.oup.com/sleep/article/21/8/871/2726004

I think my ears kid has circadian rhythms too, which makes things really difficult in that. Whatever choice is made, someone else gets the short end of the stick.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in AACPS. Literally every concern/issue/complaint in this thread about why it "can't" happen in MoCo was raised in AACPS as well.

The busses did, indeed, end up being a bit of a fiasco this year, but it sounds like that's been an across-the-board issue with the lack of bus drivers, just slightly exacerbated by the new start times.

The rest of the issue work themselves out.
Sure, some families relied on the high school kids to pick up the elementary school kids, and so now they need after care. But you also had a bunch of families who no longer need morning care, because their high school kid can get the elem kid to school, or the parents can now take them on their way to work. And of course After care for elem kids shifted their times.

Extra curriculars shifted their times - some are now before school and some are just a little later.

It's too soon to see if it makes any direct difference in student achievement, but after a TON of hand wringing over the last year and a half, people have now basically adjusted and everything is fine - and the teenagers are getting more sleep.

Why would people think teenagers need more sleep than ES kids?

The science is clear that the natural circadian rhythm for teens is later than for ES kids or adults.

Here's just one:

"Early start time was associated with significant sleep deprivation and daytime sleepiness. The occurrence of REM sleep on MSLT indicates that clinicians should exercise caution in interpreting MSLT REM sleep in adolescents evaluated on their “usual” schedules. Psychosocial influences and changes in bioregulatory systems controlling sleep may limit teenagers' capacities to make adequate adjustments to an early school schedule."
https://academic.oup.com/sleep/article/21/8/871/2726004

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm in AACPS. Literally every concern/issue/complaint in this thread about why it "can't" happen in MoCo was raised in AACPS as well.

The busses did, indeed, end up being a bit of a fiasco this year, but it sounds like that's been an across-the-board issue with the lack of bus drivers, just slightly exacerbated by the new start times.

The rest of the issue work themselves out.
Sure, some families relied on the high school kids to pick up the elementary school kids, and so now they need after care. But you also had a bunch of families who no longer need morning care, because their high school kid can get the elem kid to school, or the parents can now take them on their way to work. And of course After care for elem kids shifted their times.

Extra curriculars shifted their times - some are now before school and some are just a little later.

It's too soon to see if it makes any direct difference in student achievement, but after a TON of hand wringing over the last year and a half, people have now basically adjusted and everything is fine - and the teenagers are getting more sleep.

Why would people think teenagers need more sleep than ES kids?

The science is clear that the natural circadian rhythm for teens is later than for ES kids or adults.

Here's just one:

"Early start time was associated with significant sleep deprivation and daytime sleepiness. The occurrence of REM sleep on MSLT indicates that clinicians should exercise caution in interpreting MSLT REM sleep in adolescents evaluated on their “usual” schedules. Psychosocial influences and changes in bioregulatory systems controlling sleep may limit teenagers' capacities to make adequate adjustments to an early school schedule."
https://academic.oup.com/sleep/article/21/8/871/2726004

But HS need 8-9 hours

A kindergarten kid needs 11 hours