Anonymous
Post 03/09/2023 21:36     Subject: Employee always has a conflict when they need to travel or present
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I talked to the employee. It sounds like her DH does not help with the school drop off and pickup and afer school activities. That is not grounds for an accomodation. I am the parent of school aged kids and we pay for after care, arrange carpools, stagger our schedules for after school activities. I appreciated her honesty with me but this is not grounds for not presenting. Her children are also HS aged so she will need to figure out her job and home responsibilities. I guess in the pandemic, she got used to picking up kids after school, etc. We are in hybrid environment and she has the ability to flex hours so she had been doing this to pick up kids then working once home or taking leave. I don't know what to say. I was not expecting this at all!


Then she can make arrangements for carpools, etc to accommodate her kids’ schedules while she travels, ask for favors, like other people do (like me). My DH travels over 50% of his job so if I have a conflict I have to learn hard on my carpools and other relationships. It’s doable. She has to make the effort.


Maybe that is doable when you have two parents or a close friend willing to have inequitable sharing, but for the amount of travel OP requires and an AWOL DH, she will rarely be able to reciprocate in a meaningful way.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2023 21:33     Subject: Employee always has a conflict when they need to travel or present
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:She probably knew her situation was not going to be a valid reason for you OP, and that's why she was avoiding the conversation.

Now that she has told you the truth, it's telling that you won't give her a pass for a few years while letting the rest of the staff (who you said wanted to travel / present) do that job function.

Now I see why she didn't want to tell you. Absolutely no sympathy. And if this is a federal joy, it's not like she's probably being paid enough to work this out with hired help.

If I was your employee, I would be looking for a new job ASAP that didn't require travel.


Exactly, she has a husband that is unwilling or unable to coordinate with the kids schedule. High school students often need transport to places, and to deprive them of activities and practice will literally affect their college acceptance. As a parent I don’t want my student bumming rides from other student drivers or taking a FIng Uber. That is really dangerous and expensive.

You don’t pay enough to hire a driver like many law parents do, so she is using the flexibility of her job to make it work.

I still don’t understand why you can’t have her present remotely — ship a satellite internet hot spot if these places are this remote. It’s probably cheaper than airfare and a hotel anyway.

You say she is one of the best employees — is presenting the only thing she does well, and now literally does nothing? Or she excels at other work and this facet has been neglected

Your pressure on her is causing her to look elsewhere Im sure, so you should come to terms for what you will lose when she is gone unless you backtrack with her.


PP here - this post has to be a joke for how absolutely insane it is.



What part is “insane”. Hiring in gov is impossible now, pay is lagging inflation so badly. If you have a good capable employee you don’t toss them for a temporary home situation (assuming these high school kids will graduate eventually).

You can own a starlink terminal for $300; ship it to these remote locations and she can present remotely perfectly fine. I just saved the agency $1000 between airfare, hotel, and car rental.

https://www.starlink.com/roam

If I’m misreading, and her ONLY a value was in presenting, then she does need to find a new job so let her — because after todays conversation she is. Dozens of agencies are hiring and have zero travel, lots of telework jobs so she will be fine. If she has other value to OP, her replacement will likely be some recent grad from a no name college willing to accept gov pay because it’s better than teaching.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2023 21:15     Subject: Employee always has a conflict when they need to travel or present
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:She probably knew her situation was not going to be a valid reason for you OP, and that's why she was avoiding the conversation.

Now that she has told you the truth, it's telling that you won't give her a pass for a few years while letting the rest of the staff (who you said wanted to travel / present) do that job function.

Now I see why she didn't want to tell you. Absolutely no sympathy. And if this is a federal joy, it's not like she's probably being paid enough to work this out with hired help.

If I was your employee, I would be looking for a new job ASAP that didn't require travel.


Exactly, she has a husband that is unwilling or unable to coordinate with the kids schedule. High school students often need transport to places, and to deprive them of activities and practice will literally affect their college acceptance. As a parent I don’t want my student bumming rides from other student drivers or taking a FIng Uber. That is really dangerous and expensive.

You don’t pay enough to hire a driver like many law parents do, so she is using the flexibility of her job to make it work.

I still don’t understand why you can’t have her present remotely — ship a satellite internet hot spot if these places are this remote. It’s probably cheaper than airfare and a hotel anyway.

You say she is one of the best employees — is presenting the only thing she does well, and now literally does nothing? Or she excels at other work and this facet has been neglected

Your pressure on her is causing her to look elsewhere Im sure, so you should come to terms for what you will lose when she is gone unless you backtrack with her.


PP here - this post has to be a joke for how absolutely insane it is.

Anonymous
Post 03/09/2023 20:21     Subject: Employee always has a conflict when they need to travel or present
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I talked to the employee. It sounds like her DH does not help with the school drop off and pickup and afer school activities. That is not grounds for an accomodation. I am the parent of school aged kids and we pay for after care, arrange carpools, stagger our schedules for after school activities. I appreciated her honesty with me but this is not grounds for not presenting. Her children are also HS aged so she will need to figure out her job and home responsibilities. I guess in the pandemic, she got used to picking up kids after school, etc. We are in hybrid environment and she has the ability to flex hours so she had been doing this to pick up kids then working once home or taking leave. I don't know what to say. I was not expecting this at all!


Then she can make arrangements for carpools, etc to accommodate her kids’ schedules while she travels, ask for favors, like other people do (like me). My DH travels over 50% of his job so if I have a conflict I have to learn hard on my carpools and other relationships. It’s doable. She has to make the effort.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2023 18:28     Subject: Employee always has a conflict when they need to travel or present
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I'm this person at my job.

It's because my husband had a mental breakdown and is now somewhere on the alcohol use disorder spectrum and also has suicidal ideations and I'm terrified to leave our 4yo and 1yo in his care. I also can't leave another adult here for the kids and subject them to my husband's terrifying mental health issues. I don't feel it's appropriate to tell my job this and I don't know what else to do.


This is exactly what the reasonable accommodation system is in place to deal with.


Unfortunately it is not. ADA accommodations are for the individual’s disabling health condition, not a family member’s. PP would be eligible for leave via FMLA, assuming that she is otherwise (meets 1 yr/1250 hrs of service).
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2023 18:25     Subject: Employee always has a conflict when they need to travel or present
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I talked to the employee. It sounds like her DH does not help with the school drop off and pickup and afer school activities. That is not grounds for an accomodation. I am the parent of school aged kids and we pay for after care, arrange carpools, stagger our schedules for after school activities. I appreciated her honesty with me but this is not grounds for not presenting. Her children are also HS aged so she will need to figure out her job and home responsibilities. I guess in the pandemic, she got used to picking up kids after school, etc. We are in hybrid environment and she has the ability to flex hours so she had been doing this to pick up kids then working once home or taking leave. I don't know what to say. I was not expecting this at all!


PP here. I won't go off on your employee, but yes, that's not grounds for accommodation. I would move forward with documenting this per HR guidelines.

I feel for her, but she knew the job she was in. And it sounds like there's a lot of flexibility for her quite honestly. I've been solo parenting for two years and there are times when I tell my kids that no, I can't take them on X day. You try to find rides or they have to take the late bus, bike, walk, or take the occasional Uber. High schoolers don't need an after school pickup every day.


It sounds like her DH changed, so she had the job before this situation came about.

This is exactly why women can’t get ahead in workforce — there isn’t RA for child logistics, but it’s not like they can drive themselves.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2023 17:56     Subject: Employee always has a conflict when they need to travel or present
Anonymous wrote:She probably knew her situation was not going to be a valid reason for you OP, and that's why she was avoiding the conversation.

Now that she has told you the truth, it's telling that you won't give her a pass for a few years while letting the rest of the staff (who you said wanted to travel / present) do that job function.

Now I see why she didn't want to tell you. Absolutely no sympathy. And if this is a federal joy, it's not like she's probably being paid enough to work this out with hired help.

If I was your employee, I would be looking for a new job ASAP that didn't require travel.


Exactly, she has a husband that is unwilling or unable to coordinate with the kids schedule. High school students often need transport to places, and to deprive them of activities and practice will literally affect their college acceptance. As a parent I don’t want my student bumming rides from other student drivers or taking a FIng Uber. That is really dangerous and expensive.

You don’t pay enough to hire a driver like many law parents do, so she is using the flexibility of her job to make it work.

I still don’t understand why you can’t have her present remotely — ship a satellite internet hot spot if these places are this remote. It’s probably cheaper than airfare and a hotel anyway.

You say she is one of the best employees — is presenting the only thing she does well, and now literally does nothing? Or she excels at other work and this facet has been neglected

Your pressure on her is causing her to look elsewhere Im sure, so you should come to terms for what you will lose when she is gone unless you backtrack with her.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2023 15:35     Subject: Employee always has a conflict when they need to travel or present
She probably knew her situation was not going to be a valid reason for you OP, and that's why she was avoiding the conversation.

Now that she has told you the truth, it's telling that you won't give her a pass for a few years while letting the rest of the staff (who you said wanted to travel / present) do that job function.

Now I see why she didn't want to tell you. Absolutely no sympathy. And if this is a federal joy, it's not like she's probably being paid enough to work this out with hired help.

If I was your employee, I would be looking for a new job ASAP that didn't require travel.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2023 15:16     Subject: Employee always has a conflict when they need to travel or present
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I talked to the employee. It sounds like her DH does not help with the school drop off and pickup and afer school activities. That is not grounds for an accomodation. I am the parent of school aged kids and we pay for after care, arrange carpools, stagger our schedules for after school activities. I appreciated her honesty with me but this is not grounds for not presenting. Her children are also HS aged so she will need to figure out her job and home responsibilities. I guess in the pandemic, she got used to picking up kids after school, etc. We are in hybrid environment and she has the ability to flex hours so she had been doing this to pick up kids then working once home or taking leave. I don't know what to say. I was not expecting this at all!


I was the much earlier poster who said she was playing you. I didn’t mean it as an insult, but rather that she was lying low and shirking until she was called on it. I think it’s very telling about the current WFH/work situation that this employee thought her excuse was appropriate. Also, the willingness of others on this thread to make excuses for this employee is nuts! Many posters would rather find an excuse than inquire or consider poor behavior. To me, the clue was the repeated violation, yet no desire to address the issue. When an employee doesn’t care about their poor performance and their impact on others, there is a problem.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2023 14:53     Subject: Employee always has a conflict when they need to travel or present
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I talked to the employee. It sounds like her DH does not help with the school drop off and pickup and afer school activities. That is not grounds for an accomodation. I am the parent of school aged kids and we pay for after care, arrange carpools, stagger our schedules for after school activities. I appreciated her honesty with me but this is not grounds for not presenting. Her children are also HS aged so she will need to figure out her job and home responsibilities. I guess in the pandemic, she got used to picking up kids after school, etc. We are in hybrid environment and she has the ability to flex hours so she had been doing this to pick up kids then working once home or taking leave. I don't know what to say. I was not expecting this at all!


PP here. I won't go off on your employee, but yes, that's not grounds for accommodation. I would move forward with documenting this per HR guidelines.

I feel for her, but she knew the job she was in. And it sounds like there's a lot of flexibility for her quite honestly. I've been solo parenting for two years and there are times when I tell my kids that no, I can't take them on X day. You try to find rides or they have to take the late bus, bike, walk, or take the occasional Uber. High schoolers don't need an after school pickup every day.
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2023 13:21     Subject: Employee always has a conflict when they need to travel or present
Anonymous wrote:OP here. I talked to the employee. It sounds like her DH does not help with the school drop off and pickup and afer school activities. That is not grounds for an accomodation. I am the parent of school aged kids and we pay for after care, arrange carpools, stagger our schedules for after school activities. I appreciated her honesty with me but this is not grounds for not presenting. Her children are also HS aged so she will need to figure out her job and home responsibilities. I guess in the pandemic, she got used to picking up kids after school, etc. We are in hybrid environment and she has the ability to flex hours so she had been doing this to pick up kids then working once home or taking leave. I don't know what to say. I was not expecting this at all!


It doesn’t sound like she has a “we” though.

My ex husband was not a coparent, and would become verbally/emotionally/physically abusive when I asked him to step up. If I couldn’t arrange for my parents to come in, or take my child with me, I had to decline travel, because I could not leave my child with him. I ended up having to change jobs to one that was compatible with my family life.

I have also been on the other side though, trying to manage a team where one person had a similar performance issue outside the scope of accommodation. So I know it’s hard. I eventually had to terminate that person, after years of trying coaching and then performance management.

If you really want to keep her because her work outside of presenting is that good: Is there a job available that doesn’t involve travel? Are you able to shuffle responsibilities to rebalance work loads so that she can avoid travel? Would that rebalanced job (and the jobs of the rest of your team) be rated in the same grade/salary, or are you able to down/upgrade as needed? Could this be done in a way that makes the rest of the team happy?

If her only exceptional value is something she refuses to do: sit down with her, and revisit the job requirements, including presenting/travel. Ask what you can do to help her do her job, ask her to create a strategy that allows her to do her job. And then hold her to that, knowing that you may end up needing to let her go, so you can free up the headcount for someone who can do the job. Document, be professional, and empathetic but firm.

You should touch base with your HR contact, regardless of what you choose.

Good luck!
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2023 12:51     Subject: Employee always has a conflict when they need to travel or present
OP here. I talked to the employee. It sounds like her DH does not help with the school drop off and pickup and afer school activities. That is not grounds for an accomodation. I am the parent of school aged kids and we pay for after care, arrange carpools, stagger our schedules for after school activities. I appreciated her honesty with me but this is not grounds for not presenting. Her children are also HS aged so she will need to figure out her job and home responsibilities. I guess in the pandemic, she got used to picking up kids after school, etc. We are in hybrid environment and she has the ability to flex hours so she had been doing this to pick up kids then working once home or taking leave. I don't know what to say. I was not expecting this at all!
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2023 12:48     Subject: Employee always has a conflict when they need to travel or present
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:If people don't mind picking up the travel for her, I would leave it. Obviously she's going through a health issue and doesn't want to discuss it. If HR wants to meet with her, that's on them.
.

If other people on the team are getting upset that they have to travel more, I think you need to have a frank conversation with her.


+1 She could be experiencing health matters that should only be discussed with HR, be in an abusive situation at home, or suffering crippling panic attacks related to travel/site visits (which of course cannot be scheduled in advance). If others on your team love to travel and have no issue with picking these assignments up, is it a big deal impacting your team? Should the JD and responsibilities be amended and updated?



She is the lead for a team that mainly does training. So it is an essential job function and part of her PD. If she can't do it, she would need an accomodation through that office at our agency. She would probably need to be moved to a different job series since we are required to travel 25% and presentations are at a minimum weekly. We typically have 1-4 site visits a month.


She presents in meetings with other offices frequently but not formally.

When is the last time she actually led a meeting or did a presentation?
Anonymous
Post 03/09/2023 09:35     Subject: Employee always has a conflict when they need to travel or present
If others want to travel, then it is a win win
Anonymous
Post 03/08/2023 21:01     Subject: Employee always has a conflict when they need to travel or present
I have had difficulty traveling during both infertility and cancer treatment.